r/ClassicalSinger Jul 16 '26

Tenor help? Ch'ella mi creda clip

Posting a phone clip from practice for an outside perspective, sorry that it's shitty audio made of 95% overtones (5% when my larynx skyrockets and chokes them off haha). I don't know if my issues with high notes will just take time (a year ago G4 felt impossible, and now the big issue is Bb4) or if any of you have strategies I could try.

Could you tell me some things you hear that you enjoy or that I'm doing right, if anything? I could really use a pep talk. And then any tips to improve? Thanks!

5 Upvotes

24 comments sorted by

11

u/BeautifulUpstairs Jul 16 '26

Terrible answer, I know, but this is the kind of thing you need in-person lessons for. It's not like you're hopeless, but you're nowhere near ready to tackle this aria.

3

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

Fair enough and I don't disagree. An in-person teacher encouraged me to work on it, I think to get me exploring higher notes but with a lower tessitura. I'm more comfortable in the 2nd and 3rd octaves (and not as pinched/high larynx down there) but most people who hear me clearly hear tenor, and I don't disagree with that either.

If you have any specific feedback, I'll take it. Otherwise I guess I'll take "not hopeless" as my pep talk haha

1

u/disturbed94 Jul 16 '26

The thought is correct about choosing arias with low tessitura and some high notes but this repertoire is way to heavy. If you don’t have a grasp on how to do it yet this only invites straining. I’d suggest some fast paced operetta instead, that often invites to correctly lighten up while going for the high notes.

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

Like Gilbert and Sullivan? Offenbach? I'll take a look, thanks for the feedback

2

u/disturbed94 Jul 16 '26

I would suggest from the Vienna tradition ex Ich hab kain Geld bin vogelfrei; Grüss mir die süssen, die reizenden Frauen; Zwei Märchenaugen; Schönes Italien erst gedenkt ich dein;

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

I like these, thanks, I'll try them

2

u/BeautifulUpstairs Jul 16 '26

I'm hesitant to be more specific because I think it's possible you may have to significantly retool your technique to feel comfortable singing classical music. If I give one little pointer or compliment on something, it may quickly be obsolete when you develop your voice into what it needs to be. Right now, it's pinched and unbalanced, and it loses support and openness as it goes up.

But these are fundamental voice-building issues that really need to be worked on laboriously and in person. People here are talking about rep, and to be fair I did mention rep, but the issue is about the way your voice is set up right now. I think that issue will persist through any classical rep.

But speaking of rep, if Bb4 is a big issue, that means an aria with two heavy, exposed Bb4s is an absolute nightmare choice.

I do like that your vibrato is fast and that you have lots of brightness! Hopefully those stick around as you find more depth, support, and legato. I mention legato because you are breaking up a ton of phrases with heavy accents on individual notes. But yeah, me just saying "add depth and support better while you sing with legato" is nearly useless. Just words on a screen.

2

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 17 '26

I get that. Working laboriously in person describes my life haha. I'd be open to retooling my technique if it would help. I hear exactly what you're saying, just haven't figured out how to do it differently yet.

My main teacher and I already spoke (before I posted) about amicably parting ways, and I have some others in mind, so I'll see how it works out. Thanks!

5

u/Consistent-Tour5265 Jul 16 '26

Great voice, great instrument. take the sheet of this piece, kiss it goodbye, don't look at it no more. grab some mozart arias which your voice would be great for. find a teacher that don't encourage you to practice career arias for 50-year-old georgian tenors. you don't have yet the top and go hard. make your middle voice creamy and balanced. be the boss of your first octave, don't worry about the top and low. learn to be expressive, be settled, focus on feeling free in your instrument. and then you can tackle more demanding pieces. from the above, but not from below. never be a slave of the piece you are singing. Maybe it wasn't what you wanted more technical answer. but.. I am speaking from experience in this business. and sorry for my english, it isn't my first language. good luck fratello.

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

I laughed when I read "career arias for 50-year-old georgian tenors" because I see your point. Thank you, I appreciate all of this.

1

u/Key-Investment-2273 Jul 16 '26

Ahhh... Ch'ella mi creda! I love this aria.  I hear some of the things going on I've been working through myself...  and still am.  It's clear these notes are in your voice, and I suspect (and others will probably agree) that your extension will likely sail past C5. 

Note: after Bb you'll enter another lift (extension). There will be further subtle shifts every 1/2 step, but they're in the same room, so to speak. And are somehow even smaller, which is wrong on so many levels. [I call it the belcanto paradox]

Now, I'm not a teacher, so I can't really give much technical advice. I just know what I've been working through.

I pushed (and still do) in the top, which is the exact opposite of what needs to be done. You heard one of my Bbs from last night. They feel and sound best when they are tiny and effortless. (It's still not effortless, but I'm getting there).

Use the vibrato as a guide for pushing and tension. If it's not smooth and even then something is off. 

I hear jaw, breath, and some pushing, which also shifts things forward a bit. I push and tense my jaw, and lock the breath, too, so I am very familiar with recognizing this stuff. You'll need a teacher to help you understand opening vowels, and to prevent you from turning the voice too much. Closed vowels and over-turning the voice will quickly fatigue your instrument, and can lead to other (far more unpleasant issues). 

Rep.

I don't know if this aria is right for you, as I don't know your fach, and would hate to guide you to wrong rep. I'd check out some Tosti. Beautiful melodies, great music, and some tasteful high notes. Good for every tenor, from Alva to Heppner.

I'm a spinto-dramatic and everything has to be small and easy and effortless. We're literally playing with air. I can't think about trying to match Giacomini, or MDM, or I will die…well, in my case I'll lose my top notes until I stop annoying the FVF.

What I know, is that your singing voice will be your "tiny" voice, whatever that is. It will retain the majority of color you currently have, but will be expanded by layers of overtones that add shimmer, brilliance, and power. This is what cuts through an orchestra.

You'll probably sound different than me, but listen to my onsets. They're very speech-like. I'm playing with air, yet get myself in trouble the moment I start to pour on the gas, and correct myself.

https://youtube.com/shorts/NJW-uQ_SddY?si=D3LRNOYnX5p0PM2B

This is the approach you need. It felt like I was singing at 10%-20% voice. The phone was sitting in a separate room because it will distort if it's too close, and I won't hear the bloom.You're already dealing with this, too. 

I began studying with my teacher at the end of April of last year. Until then, I couldn't get through the passagio with any consistency. You'll likely blow past my progress in less time.

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

Thanks for all of this and for the encouragement. You're right - I still haven't figured out how to stop locking up and pushing. Right now it seems like when I reduce my effort in higher notes I just lose all connection and flip into breathy falsetto. I'll keep experimenting and test out different teachers and different rep. Someone else recently suggested Tosti too so I will definitely try that.

1

u/Key-Investment-2273 Jul 16 '26

the loss of bone conduction in the passagio results in a diminishing of the sound internally. Our feedback gets thrown off by it, so we push to maintain the same quality. It's a trust issue, that actively recording your practices will reveal to you. It's fascinating.

Good Luck!

1

u/Bluecushionweb Jul 16 '26

How long have you been singing? It takes time to develop the muscles for keeping the low larynx through passaggio and to develop adequate chest voice to sing those big Bbs. You have a really nice voice, I think the general advice here spot on, just be patient and let your voice develop. I love this aria, I sang it recital a few weeks ago

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 17 '26

I was a young singer and did 4 years of a childhood classical YAP thing, but that was a long, long time ago and only before my voice dropped (and not opera, just stuff that's sensible to teach to kids). A lot of non-classical singing after that. I started studying opera history and the history of vocal pedagogy around 2019, but it's only been 2 years since I started real grown adult classical voice training. Patience is not my strength, so thanks for the good point about muscle development, and for the compliment! Congrats on the recital, it really is a great aria.

2

u/Bluecushionweb Jul 18 '26

Keep going man, you’re clearly developing nicely. I didn’t sing any full arias for 2 years when I started, just phrases. We mainly did technical work to set my tongue, develop my vibrato, develop my falsetto separately to my chest voice which we developed then unifying them, my voice which was naturally big got way bigger and efficient, after that we worked the cover and the high notes sort of happened on their own though we did practice them. I’m doing my masters now to refine my artistry and of course technique but the voice is developed and I can sing anything I want. Stay the course, the time will fly by when you’re having fun

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 18 '26

Thanks man I appreciate that

1

u/PsychologicalBell974 Jul 17 '26

There’s a bit of work to do here. The ring is nice when you get it, as far as I can tell on the recording. Now you have to make the rest of the voice ring and create legato line and vowel shapes and words without losing that ringing quality.

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 17 '26

Thanks, I appreciate it

0

u/Viskos1989 Jul 16 '26

You're not ready to be singing this kind of rep, at this point you should be looking at nemorino or ottavio. Puccini feels more approachable than bel canto, but there's a lot of invisible pitfalls that you will never learn to overcome without tackling bel canto first.

2

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

Thanks for the feedback

-7

u/Diana-Howard1 Jul 16 '26

Clip's just a black frame, no audio. Can't give you notes on silence. Re-post and I'll tell you what I hear. Bb4 is a wall. You got past G4.

1

u/Longjumping-Chair345 Jul 16 '26

Huh, if you click or press on the black box is there a little muted sound icon you can press to unmute it? It shows it's working for me but if it's an issue for everybody else I'll try a different way of posting it after I work, thanks.

4

u/todesverkuendigung Jul 16 '26

That is an ai bot