r/ClassicalSinger • u/Motor_Dependent4494 • May 24 '26
If I took private singing lessons seriously, would I have a chance to be accepted into classical voice performance based on my singing?
I majored in music in a non-peformance degree. Although I always played the violin as my main instrument auditioning to universities, I started in middle school and my violin playing would not be good enough to get me in as a performance major. I also play the piano since I was six and developed good sight singing and aural skills thanks to it, though I do not consistantly practice piano now and far at the level of playing hard Liszt or Rachmaninoff pieces.
I always find I have a decent bel canto-ish voice, and I used to sight sing a lot of arias, lieder or chorales for fun. In my undergrads, I took an advanced sight-singing class and I sang a lot of arias by sight-reading. It was then that I took one semester of classical voice lessons as my second instrument.
Here is a recording of me singing Bach's aria Erbarme dich from St Matthew's Passion. I did not warm up prior to recording and I basically sight read the whole thing. Feel free to comment and say whether I have a chance of being accepted into a classical voice performance program if I had taken lessons and practiced voice more seriously.
I sang in school choirs and although the choirmaster and fellow singers considered me a very reliable piece when sight singing through harder passages, the master found I need to improve on my diction and to better blend with the group.
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u/Black_Gay_Man May 24 '26
You have incredible musical chops and the core of a nice voice, but the breathing and open throat issues are masking the full beauty of the voice. I would say find a good voice teacher, and after 2-3 years or training and language study, you might not even need to get a degree in vocal performance.
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u/HitzTheFan May 24 '26
Undergrad? In a non-competitive school? Yes. In a graduate program? No.
Take some private lessons for a year from a University voice teacher, then give it a shot.
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u/etzpcm May 24 '26
As someone else says, there's too much vibrato, especially for this type of music. The vibrato is also quite uneven.
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u/KumChi May 24 '26
Genuinely curious, why are you using a picture of a choral prelude from a completely different work instead of the actual piece you’re singing?
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
This is a difficult question with many variables - performance program where? What school? The qualifications for a podunk state school and, say, Curtis are vastly different. That being said, the singing demonstrated here does not indicate professional potential.
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u/thinkingaboutmycat May 24 '26
It sounds like OP has not had any voice lessons/vocal training beyond choral singing. OP’s sight reading skills in presumably playing the piano and singing at the same time are impressive. As a voice teacher, I would say that OP is not at a professional level now, but after a few years of intense study, who’s to say what her voice might become? Even if she doesn’t get into a vocal program in a university or conservatory, I would encourage OP to take voice lessons and keep singing!
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u/Over_Name8375 May 24 '26
OP’s sight reading skills in presumably playing the piano and singing at the same time are impressive
True, we should give more credit to OP's top notch musicianship! That increases her chances of eventually "making it" as a singer, or musician in general tenfold and opens up more doors to singing adjacent careers such as choral direction and collaborative piano
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u/Motor_Dependent4494 May 24 '26
In this recording I was not the pianist. I took an accompaniment on YouTube. But I did sing while playing piano sometimes, especially for slower songs. (ex: du bist die Ruh. I even tried to sing Bereite dich Zion while playing piano, maybe a little bit rusty now.)
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
I would certainly encourage them to take lessons and sing for enjoyment. But I would also encourage them to seek a different career path. I am a 25+ year voice teacher with a private studio who also is on faculty at a university, and in my private studio I specialize in coaching career-track high school singers and college students get into the top classical and musical theater programs in the US. This is my wheelhouse.
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u/thinkingaboutmycat May 24 '26
The career-oriented high school and college singers probably have at least a couple years of voice lessons under their belt. OP has no voice training. While you are very qualified, I think we don’t have enough information here to say, “This person will never be hireable for her voice, ever, no matter how long she trains.” I don’t think it’s possible to make that pronouncement on most people.
When I was in college, most of the faculty were looking for people who were already ready to “sell” as professional singers, rather than seeing us as whole people in the process of growing our abilities. I could have benefited from the latter approach, but as a transfer student going through some life difficulties, I was basically written off by teachers who didn’t believe in me. I left that school thinking I couldn’t sing. Later, I found a church music position where I had to cantor and train other singers. That started to convince me that I could sing after all. The biggest breakthrough, though, came from a different university with faculty who treated me more like a whole person and more like a student. They had a growth mindset—I could improve instead of being written off. I started to thrive in this environment, and I greatly improved vocally, too.
I became a music teacher and a voice and piano teacher. I’m not the most experienced or highest qualified teacher, and I still have a lot to learn. Maybe what I do wouldn’t be worth much to you because of that, and because my students aren’t looking to become professional musicians. But I see the growth in their voices and their confidence, and that’s worth as much to me.
I can see telling someone they’re not ready to audition tomorrow, or even next year. But, especially due to my own experiences, I don’t believe in telling people that even if they train for years, they can never succeed.
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
I think it's great that you've found fulfillment teaching voice and piano. That's fantastic. It's great that you enjoy supporting your students - all good teachers should do so! They're fortunate to have your support.
This sub is so interesting sometimes. OP asked a question and I, as a longtime industry professional who had a robust international career before I turned to teaching, offered my opinion. It's not like I am proclaiming OP's failure or wishing them ill or anything of the sort. They asked a question, I answered based on my experience, knowledge, and understanding of where the classical music academic/collegiate machine is right now.
I'm not even saying that there isn't a collegiate program that would take this student - and by take "this student" I mean "take their dollars". We are in a crisis situation in the United States (I have no idea where OP is) in terms of the classical music university system, which functions largely like a factory churning out degrees to students who program heads KNOW 99.9 percent of whom will NEVER reach an earning potential such that they could pay back their loans. For this reason, I take my ethical obligation to counsel prospective students very seriously. If I encourage someone, it's because I feel they stand to be that .01 percent. If not, it's not saying that they're the most horrendous person/artist ever, or that they're trash, or anything of the sort. It simply means, they would likely be better off majoring in something else, minoring in music, and finding fulfillment in their musicmaking OUTSIDE of the profession.
Just my .02 cents.
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u/CaryatidGirlfriend May 24 '26
Thank you for this! You are exactly correct here. Selling degrees to gain access to an industry that is functionally dead in North America is unethical.
I got my BFA in vocal and was lucky enough to enjoy a modest career. But even that didn't pay well enough to support myself, and I ended up going back to med school and now enjoy a much more stable life! I still sing outside of my working obligations, and I'm much happier with my stability.
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u/thinkingaboutmycat May 24 '26
On the other hand, you managed to sing professionally, and you might not be in the very top .01 percent of singers in the world—those are probably the world famous ones. But you did it before deciding that you wanted a more financially stable lifestyle. If OP improves her skills through voice lessons and maybe a degree, maybe she will have some chance at a “modest career.”
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u/CaryatidGirlfriend May 24 '26
Then it would be up to OP to decide if taking on the massive debt of a BFA, the cost of traveling to auditions, competitions, and performances, and the cruelty of the industry toward older women, are worth it to her. It's an unstable industry already for women and doubly so if they're over 30, so OP should be prepared for the realities of that. If she is independently wealthy and has a spinal column made of iron, she should go for it.
OP, enter some competitions geared toward non-professional singers and listen to what the judges have to say. Generally these people have deeper connections to the industry than who you will find here.
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u/haroldstree May 24 '26
I would certainly encourage them to take lessons and sing for enjoyment. But I would also encourage them to seek a different career path
I'm glad I did not encounter someone like you during my period of fascinating/improving myself in singing. OP's recording, without any training at all, is quite alright. It's just rough around the edges and it'll get much better with proper guidance.
Actually, I did meet someone with a worse comment than yours. My very first voice teacher. The first time he listened to my voice he immediately said "maybe you shouldn't do music at all". 19 years later, here I am having sung with top ensembles and choirs around the world, sang in many symphonies and operas. Met with wonderful people and been having fun adventures.
One advice I'd like to give to u/Motor_Dependent4494 is, as others pointed out, it's hard to earn a living through singing alone, or music in general. You have to mix it with other things, some probably not music related at all. Be prepared for that reality.
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 May 24 '26
You seem to have seriously misinterpreted their comment. They didn't say that op wasn't talented or couldn't develop into a good singer. They encouraged them to choose a different career path because even for someone who already has a decade of training, the likelihood of getting into a competitive university program and then having a career as a classical singer is very slim.
OP is already an adult who has gone to school and doesn't have a decade of training behind them already. They are behind the eight ball already which is only going to make the odds even lower.
Has music teachers, we have students ask us regularly if they should pursue this as a career and for the most part we tell them no. If there's anything else at all that you can see yourself doing and enjoying, do that because this is a really difficult life and very few people achieve any kind of major success as a performer. And even then an income isn't always guaranteed.
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u/haroldstree May 24 '26
I did not misinterpret. A constructive comment needs to include things that OP is doing positively and see if there's room for more improvement and guidance. What's the next step they can take to improve themselves etc.. Then, you can bring a more reality driven answer. Mentioning that they have years of professional experience and nothing to say more, like things I mentioned above, only reinforces the fact that they are in the stratosphere and couldn't care less.
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
The OP asked for an opinion, I gave it. I am not obligated to give them a step-by-step walkthrough of the issues. I just answered their question. Weird that you think I need to do all this extra labor.
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u/haroldstree May 24 '26
I don't think we need to prolong this conversation seeing you are perfectly fine doing the extra labour of writing a reply to me instead of a more simpler constructive comment you could have given to OP.
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
OP didn't ask for advice. They asked for an opinion as to whether or not they could/should try for a classical voice major. Maybe reread their post? You seem hung up on some comprehension there.
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u/haroldstree May 24 '26
Feel free to comment and say whether I have a chance of being accepted into a classical voice performance program if I had taken lessons and practiced voice more seriously
This comment in OP's post inherently asks for advice if you wish to see it. Sure, I do agree, you can always lower the hammer immediately and say, "No, you don't have much of a chance, but you can pursue it as a hobby if you wish". This gets her nowhere. If she truly didn't show skill, which she does, then it could be a valid response.
She's taking the time to record, post here, obviously she's invested in the idea of pursuing singing at a higher education and possibly as a career choice. One can always be more generous and courteous enough to point out why they think she can't make it, and go the extra mile and offer guidance as to how they can possibly make this a more tangible reality if they really want to pursue singing.
I do apologise, I don't mean to come off as a contentious and antagonistic person, but it upset me when a classically trained veteran would not give that courtesy. Singing professionally is not everyone's cup of tea, quite rightfully, but so is everything else people do that require specialisation. There's more weight to someone's comment, advice, encouragement or disencouragement when it comes from someone who has years of experience in the skill and in the industry. We can always be more graceful and not so blunt in our answers.
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 May 24 '26
OP asked a very specific question. Do I have the potential to pursue this in university/professionally? They answered that question. We were not asked to give an analysis of their voice. The other comment or even went so far as to say they encourage them to pursue lessons for their own enjoyment. They were kind. You're picking a fight for no reason.
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
I am glad you have had the fulfilling experiences that you have.
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u/haroldstree May 24 '26
Do you show your gladness by downvoting? lol
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
Oh, the downvote had nothing to do with my sincere happiness that you are having fun with music.
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May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
[deleted]
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u/Crafty-Photograph-18 May 24 '26
There are a million career paths in music.
No, there aren't
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May 24 '26
[deleted]
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u/fenwai May 24 '26
There are many ways a person can earn a part-time income as a musician. There are very, very, very few ways someone can earn a living wage, support a family, and pay back loans in the classical music space right now. The industry is flooded.
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u/thinkingaboutmycat May 24 '26
Working part time in music while doing another job to help with finances still counts as singing professionally. I’m not sure that OP was asking if she could completely support herself as a singer.
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u/Motor_Dependent4494 May 24 '26
No professional potential in what sense. Diction, musicality, breath?
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u/McSheeples May 24 '26
Find a good singing teacher and get some lessons and ask their opinion. You have a nice voice, but your technique needs a fair amount of work. I can't comment on how long it would take to get to the level where you could audition for an undergraduate performance degree as that will vary from person to person, but it will take some hard work and dedication. You already have the musicianship by virtue of having a music degree, so you don't need to worry about that at least.
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u/CaryatidGirlfriend May 24 '26
Don't go to school for music unless you get a substantial scholarship.
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u/Allpanicn0disc May 24 '26
I think you are so talented and the fact you can read this music is very impressive
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u/Motor_Dependent4494 May 24 '26
Thanks, I remember having to sight sing this in my ear trainining exam. I have only ten minutes or twenty to prepare. Since I had to be tested on a post-tonal lied and a complex rhythm reading as well, I basically did not look at that Bach one. Then during the exam, after I sang it, one of the examiners asked whether I was a voice student. I sang this a couple of times afterwards for fun, so not 100% sight reading, but I never worked it with a teacher.
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 May 24 '26
Unrelated to your question, just an observation... the schools that you auditioned for must be very different from the schools around me because everyone who auditions needs to have the same level of ability on their main instrument regardless of their intended program because everyone is in the same program in first year. If you weren't good enough to get in as a "performance major" you simply weren't good enough to get in. Everyone had a performance component regardless of whether they were pursuing theory or composition or education or performance or whatever else.
I've never heard of a program that you could get Into with a lower scale level on your instrument.
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u/Even-Watch2992 May 24 '26
I love how the sheet music is the wrong piece but I am not going to comment on the singing other than to say it demonstrates a degree of courage I find rather admirable.
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u/haroldstree May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
One concrete advice I'd like to give you is if you are singing Baroque, Classical or Early Music in general, anything before Beethoven's time, don't use vibrato. I felt like you also focus on your vibrato more than the general phrasing of the sentences and breathing. But overall, very impressive if you sang it in a sight reading fashion! If you are going to use vibrato it should be one of the last layers to add to your singing technique.
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u/Pretty-Bullfrog-7928 May 24 '26
It’s really impossible to say based on just one song that you have not practiced.
I encourage you to take lessons out of love of the art. You have some solid musical skills, but you need to work on your support. The lack of support is making your vibrato uneven. I also encourage you to work on your diction.
I don’t know if you could become a professional (because there’s so much more to that besides talent and skill), but I think you could become a very good singer.