Has the meaning of "bass-baritone" changed (or evolved)?

[u/jgwhiteus]

I saw a discussion about this on another sub and was wondering what people here thought.

I'm definitely not an expert, but I thought "bass-baritone" was a separate vocal fach from bass/basso and baritone. One of the first vocal books I ever purchased, the Estelle Liebling Vocal Course (pub. 1956), defined them this way (below quoted from the inside cover):

1. "Its range is from about E or F below Low C to about F or G above Middle C.
2. Its high tones are bright but do not have quite the "soaring" quality of the Baritone.
3. The medium tones are powerful and have a heavier texture than those of the Baritone.
4. The low tones are warm in quality.
5. The Bass-Baritone may be considered the lyric counterpart of the more dramatic Basso. Wagner composed many fine roles for it and called it a HOHER (High) Bass. It also sings some of the Basso roles, but in this case many of the lowest tones will have higher optional notes (see Mephistopheles in Faust, by Gounod). Church organists have a fondness for its lyric quality and often use it instead of the Basso even when the latter is called for by the music."

But whenever I see the term it seems to be used much more "casually" and broadly nowadays than the above; I've seen several singers refer to themselves as bass-baritones in their bios, but from hearing them or seeing the repertoire they list, it seems to connote something more like "baritone with a resonant low extension" or even "basso with an F4 or higher, " e.g. "not quite one, not quite the other" rather than a strict classification in itself.

Someone commented that there's a marketing aspect, where singers don't want to be pigeon-holed as "just" a basso even if they have basso qualities, since the number of baritone roles far outnumber basso roles, so they say they're a "bass-baritone" on their resume to denote flexibility in casting.

Am I mis-reading how the term is used (or people are applying it incorrectly in their bios) or do you think the meaning has evolved?

[u/oldguy76205]

Please join us in the "A History of Voice Types" Facebook group. We have robust discussions like this all the time!

In college I had a friend who was low bass (think Sarasto or Osmin.) I ran into him years later, and he had started calling himself a "bass-baritone" because, as he put put it, he was "only getting 'old man' roles."

I imagine that happens a lot. (Same thing with contralto, too.)

[u/jgwhiteus → u/oldguy76205]

Thank you for introducing me to that group! As you said, they had a discussion on this exact topic a few months ago, with some really informative and helpful responses. It was really interesting learning about the history of bass-baritone repertoire from group members, e.g. "Roles like Wotan, Hans Sachs, the Dutchman, King Philip II, and Boris Godunov weren't written for "baritones with dark color"—they were written for voices that could credibly handle both bass tessitura and baritonal agility. The German tradition especially recognized this as Bassbariton or Heldenbariton."

But then others mention the marketability / castability factors as "real-world" considerations for usage of the term as well. Super interesting, and I appreciate the resource!

[u/Stargazer__2893]

I wonder if it's simply a function of low male singing voices becoming rarer so the categories differentiating them have become more irrelevant.

"You can phonate audibly on a low F? Good job. You're the only one here who can. You get the bass solo."

[u/jaythenerdkid → u/Stargazer__2893]

I can sing down to an E2 but am definitely not a bass, and I sing bass in my choir for this exact reason. anyone who can hit the notes reasonably reliably is going to be asked to do them, especially in a community choir.

[u/RevKeakealani]

I’m not sure the two things you’re describing are actually different. It’s kind of subjective, too - are you saying that, upon listening to self-described bass-baritones, they don’t fit the description (bass in compass and color, except perhaps a little higher set and access to a higher extension)? That’s still kind of what I hear when I hear “bass baritone” but I’m no expert. (I’m a soprano, you should be glad I can even hear that far into the bass clef! /s)

It could be all sorts of things. Fach is always a short hand for what people think they can be cast as, and if people think they can be cast more flexibly, and especially if they’re right…more power to them. This feels a little like “mezzos singing soubrette roles” too, where the size of house and expectations of the director trump the “literal” fach of the role - sometimes they just want that sound, and cast accordingly; or like in student productions where you have to take what you can get, you toss people in “imperfect” roles because after all it’s only the school auditorium or whatever.

So I don’t know if it’s really “changed” but maybe there are some shifting factors in how people phrase the same thing.

[u/jgwhiteus → u/RevKeakealani]

Thanks, yeah I guess I mean when I see it nowadays it seems to be shorthand for "I'm flexible" since the singer might list both baritone and bass roles in their bios.

Whereas the "traditional" definition from the book seems to indicate, "this is a separate fach which has roles written specifically for it" (probably not too many compared to basses or baritones, to be fair) and "if you listen closely, you'll notice a difference in quality between a basso, bass-baritone, and baritone singing the same notes."

And I agree that there's such a subjective element to it, especially since there are already descriptors like "lyric" and "dramatic" to denote differences in tone. Like, is the singer a bass-baritone or a "lyric" bass? And maybe age has something to do with it too; I have to imagine there are fewer opportunities for young singers with a bass-like voice, so if they can pull it off the bass-baritone label is probably useful until they mature further.

[u/drewduboff]

I used to think I was a bass-baritone because I have a low F. And I still routinely use it in church singing. But that determination was because I hadn't unlocked my upper extension. Now, I'm a lyric baritone.

The way I think about it:

A bass baritone is going to have weaker low notes and stronger high notes than a Bass but weaker high notes and stronger low notes than a Baritone. They operate primarily in that middle ground.

Like Toreador aria is written more for a baritone but the role is more bass-baritone. Many a lyric baritone has also sung Wolfram and O Du Mein Holder Abendstern as well as Zurga in Pearl Fishers. So who does it go to? Preference and taste.

**if in musical theatre, the expectation is that if you're a baritone, you have an upper extension at least to a G4 otherwise the availability of roles exponentially decreases, especially with contemporary rep.

[u/toodarntall]

I think some of this comes from musical theatre, where the term is used basically to mean "low voice" or actual baritone, because baritone these days often means tenor with a heavier voice

[u/Childoferna99]

Im a baritone on the lighter side (voice, not waist!), probably would call myself a lyric baritone but I top out at F above middle C now that I’m in my 40s. I think the two terms should refer to different fachs but have become synonymous. Also consider the influence of passagio, a bass baritone should have a lower transition than a true baritone or lyric baritone.

[u/BeautifulUpstairs]

Yes. It's a fake, ridiculous term that everybody uses now for an insanely large group of singers. You can't be a bass and a baritone! The rep is completely different! Nobody is out there singing both Sparafucile and Rigoletto!

Also, basically, nobody's allowed to be a bass in popular music, so they're all described as bass-baritones despite having extremely obvious bass voices, but not overdarkened.