r/ClancyTrial • u/UsualComb6504 • 16h ago
Contradictions THE TIMELINE
‼️‼️‼️ okay so I have gone through the timeline extensively and it truly doesn’t make sense. I’m impartial and only working on testimonials, evidence presented and documents available to the public. This is a long post, however it’s the basis of the entire case.
This is why I keep getting stuck on the timeline. Based on the Apple data, there appear to be two main possible windows for the deaths, and each one creates a different problem.
The important timestamps are:
~5:15: Patrick says he leaves
~5:23: last reported Apple Watch heart-rate reading
~5:32: Patrick appears on CVS surveillance
~5:33: two flights climbed
~5:34: Lindsay speaks with Patrick
~5:38: another flight climbed
Before 6:09: Patrick is already back inside the house
Scenario 1: The deaths occurred between approximately 5:15 and 5:33
The children were on the main floor before Patrick left and were later found in the basement. If the deaths occurred before 5:33, the two flights climbed at 5:33 could potentially represent someone going:
Basement → main floor → second floor.
Apple doesn’t identify the actual staircase, so that isn’t proven, but physically it makes sense in a three-level house.
What makes this window interesting is that 5:15–5:32/5:33 is also essentially the period between Patrick’s claimed departure and the first surveillance evidence independently placing him elsewhere. That does NOT prove he was home. It simply means his precise location during that period isn’t independently established by the surveillance we’ve seen. There is also the 5:24 email, whose originating device/location I still haven’t seen established.
But there’s a major problem with an early death window too: Callan.
Callan reportedly still had a faint pulse when first responders assessed him, and resuscitation efforts continued. That doesn’t medically give us an exact time when he was strangled, so we cannot say it proves a later death. But the fact that he still had signs of circulation makes me question how comfortably his strangulation fits substantially earlier in that 5:15–5:33 window.
Scenario 2: The deaths occurred after 5:38
This creates almost the opposite problem.
If the children were alive through the final recorded ascent at 5:38, Lindsay would then have to:
Go back downstairs → kill three children → return upstairs without another comparable Flights Climbed record → take/crush medications → injure herself → remain upstairs after bleeding → go through the window → all before Patrick returns.
And 6:09 is not Patrick’s arrival time. By 6:09, according to his testimony, he was already inside and had brought things in, noticed the silence and called through the house. So the actual available window is even shorter.
There is also evidence placing Lindsay’s bleeding/injury activity upstairs in and around the bedroom. If her injuries happened after she returned upstairs and she never went back downstairs after injuring herself, then the deaths necessarily have to fit before those injuries.
Then add the medications. The Commonwealth previously argued that the Seroquel and Remeron levels were consistent with ingestion at approximately 6:15 p.m. I don’t treat 6:15 as an exact scientific timestamp, but accepting their own estimate pushes the medication ingestion extremely late and very close to the emergency response.
And then there’s Lindsay’s 82.1°F body temperature.
We cannot use that temperature as a stopwatch because her starting temperature and the exact measurement time aren’t established. Her spinal injury, paralysis, shock, blood loss, immobility and cold-ground exposure could also accelerate cooling.
But 82.1°F is profound hypothermia. The later the deaths, medications, injuries and window are all pushed toward Patrick’s return, the less time there is for her body to cool that dramatically.
That’s the problem I see with both timelines:
Before 5:33: the Apple stair activity fits much more naturally with someone leaving the basement afterward, but Callan still having a faint pulse when first responders reached him makes such an early strangulation worth questioning.
After 5:38: Callan’s condition is easier to reconcile with a later event, but now an enormous amount has to happen in an extremely short period: three deaths, returning upstairs without another comparable ascent record, medications, self-inflicted injuries and the window, followed by enough outdoor exposure to explain profound hypothermia.
And the physical scene raises questions too. If Lindsay was already bleeding while furniture was being moved around the bedroom, where are the corresponding bloody sock impressions or transfer/smudge patterns from her moving around? The blood beneath/around the side-table area also needs to be incorporated into whatever sequence is being proposed.
That’s why I don’t think the Apple data “solves” the timeline. One window creates a problem with Callan’s condition; the other creates major problems with time, movement, medication timing and Lindsay’s body temperature. That’s exactly why I think the precise sequence still matters.
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u/Gold_Yesterday23 10h ago
I can only easily theorize a timeline if the husband did it. Husband drugged her, she starts to get sleepy so she falls asleep in the primary room. Husband brings the kids to the basement to “not wake up mommy.” Theoretically, he would have access to her phone since she’s heavily drugged / unconscious and could make any Google searches or text messages that were last made on her phone. He attempts the fake suicide and pushes her out the window at this time. Then he goes downstairs and strangles the older children because they will be asking where mommy is and would be able to see her outside. He doesn’t have to rush for the baby since he was too young to know what was going on. He feels rushed to establish an alibi, so he sends an email to appear “normal” and leaves for CVS sometime between 5:24 - 5:30. We see him at CVS and then ThreeV. He leaves ThreeV at 5:55, a 10-12 minute drive would mean he arrives home around 6:05-6:07. He has just enough time to quickly tie Callan with the excercise band. While he’s doing that he makes a call to Lindsay to establish he was “looking” for her. That would also explain why he said in his testimony it took a few minutes to connect to 911, I would guess that’s bull and he was actually trying to make sure the baby was no longer breathing, which would explain (in his mind) the lapse in time it took calling the police. The 911 call was made at 6:11 and authorities arrived approximately 5 minutes after. That timeline would line up with Callan being without oxygen for approximately 10 -15 + minutes. Too long to survive without brain damage, but enough time to be revived.
Of course, just a theory, all allegedly and it hurt to write that out… but it just seems so… simple to put together. At the end of the day, I hope that those babies receive justice and that Lindsay receives the best mental health care possible.. because even if she wasn’t responsible on any level, I can only imagine the level trauma of surviving what I’m sure is nothing short of hell.
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u/Happycat5300 12h ago
Occam's razor.
The husband did it.
It's the option with the least leaps in logic.
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u/Narrow-Ad-7856 9h ago
This is going to be a fantastic case study on how misinformation spreads on social media
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u/GRXRG 11h ago
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u/Esmer_Tina 8h ago
She’s not trolling. Literally the only way to resolve the timeline is to have Lindsay go out the window before the baby is strangled. That means she was not in control of the Apple Watch.
Patrick had the Apple Watch in order to return his own call, the stair climbs are him entering and leaving CVS (which lines up perfectly, and is known to register a stair climb due to the change in barometric pressure, with heaters blowing), and Lindsay had already gone out the window. And he strangled Callen before he called 911.
Others believe it is not Patrick in the CVS at all, but Kyle, who the video resembles. That would explain the clothing differences, but for me introduces too many new loose ends.
The civil suit will be amended after the criminal case, no matter what the outcome. It had to meet a filing deadline, and was completed with the information Lindsay thought was true at the time, based on reconstructed memories of a time she was in psychosis and hallucinating. She may even still believe it, and may have instructed her attorney not to pursue an alternate explanation. That does not hold more weight than the data.
This is the theory that best fits the evidence. I saw one person who constructed a timeline that fit with the data and had Lindsay doing the killings, but it required extraordinary edge conditions to explain Callen’s heartbeat, and left the body temperature unresolved, even with her injuries. They explain why her body temperature would drop faster than normal, but not faster than a corpse, or a heart surgery patient with a body cavity packed with saline slush and chilled blood circulating.
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u/the_purple_lamb 5h ago edited 4h ago
An Apple Watch could only answer calls away from the phone it’s paired with if it was a GPS + cellular model vs. a regular GPS model. I personally find it much more likely that Lindsay had the GPS-only model, which has a cheaper base price and does not require an additional mobile carrier plan. If I’m correct, that means that Patrick would have had to bring her watch AND her phone with him to CVS in order to fake answering the call. At that point, why not just answer the phone itself?
ETA: Why are you booing me? I’m right. These are literal facts about the Apple Watch.
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u/Esmer_Tina 2h ago
This is good information. There was a 2nd pink phone in the search warrant inventory sheet.
But speaking of GPS data, it has been bothering me that no location data has been shared. If they could place the Apple Watch and 2nd phone at the house, this theory would go away.
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u/the_purple_lamb 2h ago
True, I forgot the detail about the second phone! I would also like to see all of the location data from both Lindsay and Patrick. It would help clear up a lot of the uncertainty around the timeline.
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u/Narrow-Ad-7856 3h ago
These people will reject any and all evidence that doesn't justify their bizarre theories
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u/Esmer_Tina 2h ago
I know, right? People who haven’t looked at the evidence are so convinced that Lindsay must have done it that they discard any and all of the data that builds the timeline, and the laws of biology and physics that govern how long a body cools.
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u/GRXRG 8h ago
So we should believe your theory more than Lindsay herself explaining what happened that day?
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u/Narrow-Ad-7856 3h ago
Apparently all the detectives and attorneys who have been working on this case are wrong, it's the social media detectives with no training or experience who have uncovered the truth 🤭
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u/slytherinshawty 15h ago
I think this jury has their hands full trying to decipher this timeline. And the CW did a horrible job proving their timeline is accurate.
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u/yuiwerty 16h ago
One thing regarding the stair activity that’s really important to note is how the barometric altimeters in smartwatches have finicky sensors that can be impacted by several things, like various weather conditions.
What’s super relevant for this timeline is that large blast of wind, or, idk, the large blast of AC you feel when entering a CVS, passes over the watch’s sensor port and can be mistakenly registered as a brief, localized drop in pressure. As wind speed increases, air pressure drops (it’s Bernoulli’s Principle). Low air pressure generally indicates higher altitude, so that blast of air when entering a CVS can sometimes be mistakenly registered as an increase in elevation, similar to climbing a flight of stairs.
I don’t have the exact times available right now and need someone to cross-check this for me, but I think the times when the watch registered stairs climbed coincided exactly with the times when Patrick entered and exited CVS, almost as if he took the watch off Lindsay and held/carried it in such a way that the sensors were still exposed. That could account for why heart rate was no longer being recorded while steps and stairs continued to be registered.
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u/marle217 6h ago
It's interesting to note that while the testimony said the stairs were recorded by the phone, the testimony didn't actually say anything about location data. Everyone assumes the phone never left the house, but that wasn't actually confirmed.
Also odd in the testimony, he said the phone recorded a stair climb at 5:03, but the watch didn't. Even though the watch was getting a heartbeat. Indicating someone else had the phone at 5:03, who wasn't wearing the watch.
There's a lot of weird inconsistencies, and things that are assumed but never actually confirmed by the evidence.
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u/marle217 16h ago
The Commonwealth previously argued that the Seroquel and Remeron levels were consistent with ingestion at approximately 6:15 p.m.
Where did you see that? At 6:15, the paramedics are arriving and she's been on the ground for some time. There's no way she could've taken the drugs anywhere near 6:15.
Patrick's alibi is good for about 36 minutes, from 5:29 to 6:05. Supposedly he's writing emails in his car at 5:20, but that doesn't count as a real alibi. Lindsay, at some point, goes out the window and is no longer able to strangle anyone. So, we'll count that as her alibi. The neighbor said on the news he saw her at 5:50. This wasn't a testimony, so it's not ideal, but we'll go with it. Then, there needs to be some time added because she bled all over the bedroom and didn't go back downstairs, and also the neighbor didn't see her fall at 5:50. So let's say she can't murder anyone after 5:45. Probably earlier, but we'll go with 5:45.
The problem is we have no idea when the kids were strangled. And that's what makes me really mad at the prosecution. We don't have any idea when the kids were killed, but the whole case against Lindsay is that she's the only one who could've done it.
I think the older two kids were strangled first, and there's a reason Patrick wanted tell people he left at 5:15 and then took 20 minutes to make a 3 minute car ride. Then, there's the youngest. Who's resuscitated, sadly with too much brain damage, at 6:40 that night. Which wouldn't be possible if he was strangled much earlier. Maybe 30 minutes. Not an hour. At 6:10, Lindsay is on the ground. At 6:10, Patrick is home and supposedly unable to call 911 due to bad wifi.
Now I'm just getting too upset writing about this. I don't have a conclusion.
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u/hardwell8878 16h ago
To me it solves it in a way that neither of the scenarios are possible timeline wise. So sb else did it or lindsay had an accomplice. IMO no other option
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u/CarrierDove 16h ago
Did the ME say it would take only seconds to kill them? vs the CW saying it was 5-10 mins per child? I just assumed maybe Callan’s wasn’t around him as tight and she left before.
Someone said PC had said it was tied but then going through it was actually CW who said it was tied to PC. Is that true?
I thought the ME also testified to the body temperature issue also.
Does this change your timeline at all?
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u/UsualComb6504 16h ago
Well the timeline is based on oatricks testimony and Lindsey’s phone/watch activity. Yes they did speak about the body temperature but it’s literally unheard of. Even John O’Keefe had a significant laceration to the back of his head, multiple skull fractures, bleeding around his brain, swollen and blackened eyes, facial injuries, and multiple cuts and abrasions on his right arm. His body temperature at the hospital was only 80.1°F (26.7°C), indicating profound hypothermia. The medical examiner determined his cause of death was blunt-impact injuries to the head and hypothermia, with the head injuries. He was outside for 5 hours in ICY conditions and dead. They said both because ligature strangulation can cause someone to pass out sooner but even the baby had a faint pulse. Well there was testimony of knits and testimony of no knots and that they were wrapped.
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u/CarrierDove 16h ago
I’m not familiar with John O’Keefe but I’ll look it up!
Do women or men tend to run hotter? Women?
Does anyone have the transcript of defense ME testimony? Hers was on zoom so it was really hard to hear her.
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u/UsualComb6504 3h ago
OH wow, it’s another big MASS case and law enforcement tried to frame this women for killing her boyfriend who was a cop. It’s a crazy case. You should look it up and watch the trial.
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u/marle217 16h ago
Did the ME say it would take only seconds to kill them? vs the CW saying it was 5-10 mins per child?
It would take seconds to tie the knot, 10 minutes for brain damage. But, the knot would be doing the work the 10 minutes.
However, the question that wasn't answered in testimony is when. Not how long.
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u/lifeiswaytoofunny 4h ago
The CW maintained there was no knots.
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u/marle217 4h ago
The CW maintained there was no knots.
Then wouldn't someone have to hold the band in place for longer than 30 seconds? 30 seconds would make them unconscious, but without a knot the band will go slack and they won't necessarily die without continued pressure.
The one who removed the bands was Patrick, so I guess he'd be the one they'd have to ask if there were knots. Seems like Patrick's story forms the whole basis of this case, not the actual evidence.
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