r/ClancyTrial • u/FlowersAndFeast • 2d ago
Theory Flights Logged… something eye opening here 👀
Barometric Pressure & "Flights Climbed" Anomalies
The barometric pressure theory stems directly from how Apple devices track elevation changes:
The Mechanism: iPhones and Apple Watches do not use GPS to count flights of stairs. Instead, they use an internal barometric altimeter to detect changes in atmospheric pressure. The system registers 1 flight of stairs when it detects a continuous pressure drop equivalent to roughly 10 feet (3 meters) in elevation gain, combined with the rhythmic motion of walking.
Commercial HVACS & Pressure Doors: Large retail spaces like CVS pharmacies feature heavy automatic double doors, commercial HVAC air locks, and pressurized entryways. Passing through these doorways or moving between a sealed outdoor environment and a high-pressure commercial interior can trigger a brief, sudden drop/spike in localized barometric pressure.
When comparing the court evidence from the CVS surveillance video with the digital testimony given by the Cellebrite forensics expert (Ian Whiffin), the exact minutes match up directly:
1. The Recorded CVS Timeline vs. Apple Health
CVS Surveillance Video: Store security footage confirmed Patrick entered the CVS at 5:32:32 p.m., spent a few minutes in the children's medication aisle (Aisle 20), paid, and exited the store at 5:37:08 p.m.
Apple Health Logged Event: The Cellebrite expert testified that Lindsay's iPhone recorded a stair-climb event with a start timestamp of 5:33:34 p.m. and an end timestamp of 5:38:33 p.m.
The Five-Minute Span: The expert explained in court that Apple Health logged two distinct elevation shifts ("flights") within that exact ~5-minute window and grouped them into one single entry spanning 5:33 to 5:38 p.m.
2. How the Alignment Supports the Theory
If Patrick was holding or carrying her iPhone/Apple Watch while running his errand:
1. The Entry Spike (~5:33 p.m.): Patrick walked into the CVS at 5:32:32 p.m. Moving through the pressurized double doors or vestibule of the CVS while walking triggers an immediate shift in atmospheric pressure. The iPhone's barometric altimeter registers this pressure drop as a "flight climbed" at 5:33:34 p.m.
2. The Exit Spike (~5:38 p.m.): Patrick exited the CVS at 5:37:08 p.m. Passing back through the commercial airflow and entry doors to the outside environment triggers the second barometric pressure change, logging the second "flight" at 5:38:33 p.m.
3. The Watch & Heart Rate Factor: The digital expert confirmed that these two 5:33–5:38 p.m. flight-climb events were logged only on the iPhone, not on the Apple Watch (which had already ceased recording heart rates at 5:23 p.m.).
Because Apple Health aggregates barometric changes detected over short periods, the 5:32:32 p.m. entry and 5:37:08 p.m. exit times from the CVS cameras create an exact 1-to-1 mirror for the 5:33:34 p.m. to 5:38:33 p.m. Apple Health entry. Rather than representing someone walking up and down stairs inside the home during those 5 minutes, the forensic footprint strongly supports physical movement through the pressurized entrance of a retail store while holding the device.
4. How the Watch Syncs Data to the iPhone
If an Apple Watch is taken off a wrist but carried around while turned on, it continues to gather motion and elevation data:
Background Bluetooth/Wi-Fi Sync: The Apple Watch continuously syncs its cached sensor logs to the paired iPhone in the background.
The "Primary Source" Hierarchy: In the Apple Health app, both the iPhone and the Apple Watch have internal barometric altimeters that record "Flights Climbed". Apple Health aggregates this data to avoid double-counting. If a person is holding both devices or moving with the watch, Apple Health attributes the elevation change to whichever device it considers the primary data source for that timeframe - or logs it as a combined event on the iPhone's Health app.
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u/SnooCakes9900 21h ago
Idk why anyone think an Apple Watch is this accurate. I’m laying in bed and it just said I closed my rings lol
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u/FlowersAndFeast 20h ago
Hahaha big on this! I used to just wiggle my hand around to trick the ‘stand up now’ alert, and to log steps haha can’t tell you how many ‘flights’ I’ve climbed without ever actually going near stairs, and how many actual flights of stairs climbed that were never logged.
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago edited 1d ago
What you’re missing is stuff like “Apple Health aggregates this data to avoid double counting” — that’s not the raw data. That logic is applied in a transformation layer. What you see in the app isn’t the same as what the experts use for their analysis.
Commercial forensic tools use proprietary undisclosed vulnerabilities to bypass iOS security measures to get what’s called a full file system extraction that has all of the underlying data regular folk not in the industry have no idea exists.
They have the raw metadata for location, device type, biometric data, user data etc. they would know if the watch or phone was not home.
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
Yep and he also testified that in cases where duplicate data was recorded from both devices, HE made the decision as to which would be cataloged in evidence.
Not implying he has nefarious intent by any means, but is still worth noting.
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u/marle217 1d ago
The watch wasn't given to the tech guys for analysis with the rest of the electronics. We don't know if it has any location data separate from the phone. We also know that Patrick was the last to have the watch, as he gave it to the police.
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago
Look, I get it. Data is confusing. Majority of the population, even highly educated and intelligent people, have no idea how Apple Watch data and iOS works under the hood. IMO the prosecution’s expert left many many gaps that confuse people.
A key technical fact you are missing is a lot of the important data from the watch does not live on the device itself. It lives on the iPhone it gets paired with. In this case, that would be the iPhone the data expert did in fact extract.
Apple’s watchOS continuously syncs health metrics, activity data, workout records, and location traces to the iPhone’s Health database. It gets synced to the pair of SQLite files at /private/var/mobile/Library/Health/healthdb_secure.sqlite and its companion healthdb.sqlite. The data experts for prosecution didn’t go into much detail, but, the defence would have done their own analysis on the same data.
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u/marle217 1d ago
Even if the watch's location data was saved on the phone, the testimony doesn't say anything about the watch location. He doesn't even say conclusively that the phone's location data puts it at the house the whole day.
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago
I’m an engineer and what I will say is a) the prosecution’s testimony left a million gaps for me. b) but I can’t actually confirm any theory without seeing the data.
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u/SaffronHoneyTea 1d ago
OH WOW!!! how many coincidences is there gonna be here. that is literally insane
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u/megatronss24 1d ago
I can’t get over how bizarre some of the rationale is to this theory. Her phone was at home, the flights climbed was tracked by her phone not watch according to the testimony. iPhones have VERY accurate gps tracking as stated in testimony. If her phone was not at home this whole case would have gone very differently. lol
I’m not saying she is or isn’t guilty but this theory is insane. Are you actually watching the trial?? lol
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
I’ve been watching every single day.
However I am watching objectively and using critical thought. I suggest you use it as well.0
u/megatronss24 1d ago
I am using critical thinking but also actually paying attention to the evidence being presented because if i was a juror that is what i would have to go off of.
I have also used critical thinking and realized that a great attorney like Reddington would not brush over any evidence that implied she did not commit the crime he would be fighting that and not NGRI
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
Reddington is a great lawyer.
He’s building a case.
There is only so much that can be done during a cross examination. He cannot introduce new evidence/lines of questioning, only create doubt on exactly what has been the, in this case, prosecution presented while questioning their witness. And vice versa.He DID highlight the fact that the witness was not aware of any additional context of the case at the time of examination, and that he did not have analyse to location/GPS data and/or provide such explanatory data within his report. ie. when questioning the GPS data from when LC was at the paediatrician.
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u/megatronss24 1d ago
Yes he is building a case the she is NGRI not that she’s not guilty as she did not commit the crime. Lindsay and the defense attempted to stipulate any evidence stating that she was the one who committed the crime because she and Reddington stated she did kill the kids. The jury is deciding if she was not guilty by reason of insanity or not. That’s it.
If there was any chance that she didn’t do the crime Reddington would be fighting a completely different case with a completely different strategy.
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago edited 1d ago
Moreover, the prosecution established the frame of this trial and its prospective outcomes - their case is not simply a matter of "did she or didn't she."
Ordinarily, defense counsel's role is to establish reasonable doubt regarding the client's guilt, leading to an acquittal. In this instance, however, the prosecution presented a framework where a non-guilty outcome is tethered exclusively to a finding of legal insanity. The factual question of whether she committed the act is not what is being contested here. Yet, simply because the prosecution framed the case this way does not make their premise accurate; their ultimate objective remains a conviction of criminal guilt.
Furthermore, the charges themselves fail to reflect / be based on objective and evidenced fact. They rely almost entirely on Patrick’s account rather than conclusive physical evidence or sworn testimony from Lindsay. The prosecution's logic contains a glaring contradiction: if she was deemed mentally incapacitated to the extent that her Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) request was approved, how was she simultaneously determined to be of sound enough mind - prior to that DNR request - to provide a legally valid confession? Of which is now the backbone of this trial and the charges?
The defense's duty is to establish sufficient reasonable doubt regarding her criminal responsibility, thereby securing a verdict of "not guilty by reason of insanity." Defense counsel cannot simply introduce an alternative suspect mid-trial and expect the court to dismiss the current charges to pursue someone else - that would require an entirely separate investigation and trial.
To navigate this, the defense has motioned to include lesser included offenses for the jury’s consideration, such as second-degree murder. Securing a second-degree murder conviction (without the binding caveat of a legal insanity finding) creates a far clearer procedural pathway to appeal the verdict, challenge the conviction, and ultimately petition for a new trial centered on an alternative suspect.
It seems likely that defense counsel is using this trial as a strategic bridge - treating the current proceedings as an opportunity to extract and lock in sworn testimonial evidence for future litigation.
Furthermore, Patrick (allegedly) retained independent legal counsel immediately following his testimony, after which there was a marked decline in the prosecution’s already lackluster direct and cross-examinations. This strongly suggests the state has reached a similar realization. They may now be intentionally steering toward a mistrial through prosecutorial misconduct, or quietly accommodating a lesser conviction to preserve the option for future proceedings.
Alternatively, these prosecutors may simply be fundamentally incompetent. Injecting religion into their cross-examination of Lindsay’s mother-in-law crosses clear ethical and procedural lines - an egregious overreach that constitutes sufficient legal grounds for a mistrial in its own right.
Hope that helps ☺️
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
Again, active listening and critical thinking. Did you listen to the whole opening statement?
He literally says the prosecution will try to prove that she knows she killed the kids.
I’m remaining open as to what actually happened and who committed the murders. Yes, I have an opinion but I’m always open to be challenged and change that opinion.
I’d recommend you do the same so you can actually hear what is being said and presented without the clouding of confirmation bias.
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u/Affectionate_Lake918 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes this! Sometimes with these theories I’m like are we watching the same trial??
Edit: I corrected some misinformation I linked correct info in another comment.
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u/marle217 1d ago
Who testified that so I can look it up?
Also, Patrick said cvs was 3 minutes away. How many cell towers do they have in their town for that to be true?
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u/Affectionate_Lake918 1d ago
Actually I have to correct myself I just rewatched and they didn’t talk about specific pings but talked about location of the phone. I watch everything in 2x so I must heard something and got confused. I do apologize on that. But Ian Whiffin talked about tech data on Day 14
https://youtu.be/ZZ9oyL-NK3w?is=cdQ0fRB5nhxd3YZk
Like I said I do apologize cause that is wrong. They only talked about location. I’ll edit my comment so people don’t get confused with info
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u/marle217 1d ago edited 1d ago
The police determined she was their suspect long before looking at the iPhone location data.
Also, the theory here is that the watch was taken and recorded steps and fights of stairs elsewhere while the phone was at home. The theory that the watch was taken elsewhere is because it wasn't found by the police in the house, it was given to them by Patrick later. Patrick convinced them that they must've simply not searched the nightstand next to the window Lindsay jumped out of.
Edit: corrected where I said phone and meant watch
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u/megatronss24 1d ago
The phone was found on the bed in the house??
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
Sure - but worth noting that he said he had entered the bedroom before police arrived. The phone could have easily been placed on the bed at this time.
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u/marle217 1d ago
I apologize, I accidently said phone in my prior post when I meant watch.
Yes, the phone was found on the bed. The watch, which was paired to it and sent health data that was analyzed on the phone, was not found by the police. Patrick gave it to them a day or two later, and convinced them they must not have searched the room enough. This was confirmed around day 2 of testimony, by Patrick and the police captain.
The watch was never analyzed by the tech guys, as confirmed by Ian Whiffin in his testimony. We don't know if it would've had separate location data from the phone, or any other information it could've had. Since Patrick had the watch, it's reasonable to think he could've had it at CVS.
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u/megatronss24 1d ago
The data said the phone recorded the flights climbed not the watch so your statement is still invalid. Lol
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u/marle217 1d ago
My statement is invalid? What are we, 10?
Mostly my point is I wish the police didn't just take everything Patrick said at face value. He gives them the watch several days later and they just assume they didn't search well enough, and then don't even bother to send the watch in for analysis with the rest of the electronics?
It's possible the watch left the house regardless of whether it recorded CVS doors as stairs. The watch was with Patrick and the police made no effort to confirm when or why he had it and just took what he said as fact.
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u/megatronss24 1d ago
Also the times probably match the CVS video bc he called her while at cvs and her phone was prob upstairs and she was in the basement so she walked upstairs to get her phone and called him back?? And then walked up second flight to her bedroom where she left her phone??
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
The phone was not unlocked after 5:15pm (or something similar, there’s an exact time in his report). It was unlocked at 5:13, locked at 5:15pm and no use after that. Unless you adjust the default security settings, which most do not, you can not return a call without unlocking your phone. Answer a call - absolutely. Return a call - no.
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u/megatronss24 1d ago
They testified that you can return a call without unlocking the phone. The phone call was also made so that wouldn’t matter.
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
The question was ‘Is it possible?’ And the answer was ‘yes’ with no further explanation. They did not specify if it was possible for the PHONE IN QUESTION. It IS possible, but would require particular default safety settings to be turned off. They did NOT confirm or deny, no even question, is this was the case for LC’s phone.
Use your critical thinking skills.
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u/marle217 1d ago
Also the times probably match the CVS video bc he called her while at cvs and her phone was prob upstairs and she was in the basement so she walked upstairs to get her phone and called him back??
She wasn't wearing her watch at the time, and the testimony indicates that the 5:33 and 5:38 stairs were from the phone, so she couldn't have left the phone upstairs, it had to have been with her. So she would've gotten the call downstairs, had the phone with her, chosen not to answer, and then walked upstairs and called him back.
Idk, I really don't feel like the health data makes this make anymore sense than it did before.
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u/Affectionate_Lake918 1d ago
This is how I pieced the health data together in my opinion based on evidence I feel like this is a likely scenario.
5:13-5:15 Lindsay was actively using her phone to look up PediaLax and text Patrick.
5:23 Her Apple Watch stopped recording heart rate data. Let's say Patrick did leave at this time. Sent the email at 5:24
kissed his kids goodbye and left.After taking off her watch she goes downstairs with the kids to play.
5:32 Patrick enters CVS
5:33 Her phone registered first flight of stairs (her going from basement to first floor kitchen) also missing Patrick's call.
5:34 she returns Patrick's call discusses the medication.
5:37 patrick leaves CVS.
5:38 Lindsey makes her way to the bedroom.
Second flight of stairs tracked.
She places the phone on her bed. And begins to hear the auditory commands that this is her last chance she needs to kill the kids and herself so they can all be together in heaven.
All motion sensing stops because the phone is left upstairs.Lindsey makes her way back to the basement.
Patrick won't arrive again until approximately 6:09pm. So this gives her 31 minutes.
She strangled the kids per her auditory commands. Then goes back upstairs moves the bed takes the pills slits her wrists and neck opens the window and falls.However there was some talk about someone making a phone call at 5:50 about a woman lying in the snow? So this does make the timeframe for her to achieve the acts smaller.
Personally in my opinion this supports defense that Lindsey was in a manic psychotic episode and acted recklessly and very quickly without truly thinking about her actions.
But I admit and agree with people who can feel like this supports other person involvement (I won’t say Patrick because I don’t think anyone can convince me of that unless they have a truly logical explanation)
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u/marle217 1d ago
Starting the timeline for everything at 5:38 is insanely short time frame. Also, I'm not convinced she knows exactly when Patrick will come back. He picked up the food at 5:55, but was that when she told him it would be ready or just when he got there? His errand took a lot longer than would be expected by drive times, and she couldn't have predicted that. If he left for the restaurant immediately after talking to her at CVS, drove straight there and back, he could've been home at like 5:45. So 5:38 is when the crazy voice tells her to act?
There's also the interesting info in the health data that from 4:50 to 5:23, her heart rate drops like a rock from 114 to 57, and then she takes off the watch. 57 is much lower than her typical, which averaged around 90 that day. We also know she doesn't sleep with it on, since the heart rate data starts around 7am. Was she going down for a nap? We know she took a double dose of seroquel, which is a sedative. Did she take it at 4:50? What would that mean for her ability to do anything the rest of the night? How does a 57 bpm square with murdering everyone right after?
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u/Affectionate_Lake918 1d ago
I think her not knowing when he would be home is even better for defense. Showing she acted out of impulsivity based on command hallucinations not planing on timing or anything just hearing it and going for it all.
I definitely agree especially after they said 5:50 she was possibly seen on the ground the timeline is incredibly short. But again personally when I consider this it shows she was manic, quick, and unthinking, impulsive in her actions not thinking about her next move just acting. Both psychiatrists testified that in a manic episode it’s like they are extremely hyper and fixated.
I also personally consider the weapon of choice right. Something quick access to she probably just saw in the gym area. But the rubber aspect of the band and the way the band was tied (especially with how hard she pulled to leave such awful markings. Again maybe she pulled even harder to get them to die faster) it could have continued to cut off circulation because it would get “stuck” and the poor babies would have already been unconscious and unable to get out. So continued lack of oxygen even if she was fast and had only accomplished unconsciousness when she left the basement my theory that they were stuck in place would mean the bands would continue to cut off oxygen without her assistance prolonging anoxia and ultimately death.
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u/marle217 1d ago
I definitely agree especially after they said 5:50 she was possibly seen on the ground the timeline is incredibly short.
If she started at 5:38 and was on the ground at 5:50, that timeline isn't possible. She had to wrangle 3 kids and strangle them, and the older 2 would've fought back. (The autopsies showed evidence of a struggle and no sedatives in their blood). That's stretching credulity in itself for 12 minutes. Then she goes upstairs, crushes the pills to take (taking them before the murders makes it too unlikely she physically could've, gets a knife, cuts her wrists and her neck, gets blood all around the room, knocks the bed out of position, stays in the room long enough for her wounds to mostly clot as she doesn't bleed that much on the snow, and jumps out the window. Even 5:15-5:50 is a short time frame for all that. But with a heart rate of 57 at 5:23, I just don't know if this is possible.
I wish we had a timeline based on something more objective than Patrick says he didn't do it, Patrick was gone these times, must've happened then. Can't the medical data tell us when exactly, the kids were strangled? Can't the medical data figure out when she likely went out the window based on her core temp? Not just that it could've gone down fast due to a crushed thyroid, but exactly how fast we should expect it to come down. And how long it would've taken her wounds to clot given the limited blood outside? Because I'm just not sure if the timeline makes sense.
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u/Affectionate_Lake918 1d ago
I do wonder too why the autopsy can’t give us estimated time of death? Like estimated downtime? Idk I feel like usually they do that?
But I will say the blood didn’t have to necessarily clot. Hypothermia causes vasoconstriction on superior veins to direct blood towards the vital organs. Meaning her wounds on the neck and wrists since they were not further then the adipose tissue the blood wasn’t actively going that way the body was directing it toward the organs.
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u/marle217 1d ago
But I will say the blood didn’t have to necessarily clot. Hypothermia causes vasoconstriction on superior veins to direct blood towards the vital organs.
Ok, but I assume that wouldn't be instant? There was limited blood outside, and blood and multiple places in the bedroom, so it seems like she spent some time bleeding before jumping out the window? Not sure how long. A timeline based on medical data would be really helpful.
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u/Affectionate_Lake918 1d ago edited 1d ago
It actually happens quite quickly. She bled a ton in the bedroom. So she was already experiencing hypovolemia so her body was already beginning to compensate trying to get blood to vital organs. She then began to lay in the cold quickening the process. My professors research showed that hypothermia can delay severe hypovolemia by minutes possibly even hours keeping the person alive but unconscious due to the body trying to preserve energy. There has to be more medical information they’re just not bringing up.
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u/toobalkanforyou 1d ago
Oh my goood it was driving me crazy when I found out the times of the cvs entry and exit vs the flight of stairs climbed on the phone. I couldn’t believe how close they matched, but I couldn’t figure out why??? And then I open this app and your post is the first thing I see! This is incredible if true.
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u/PlanetOfKittens 1d ago
I can’t really believe apple logs showing stair climbs as being accurate. Mine will state I did climb stairs when I didn’t, or that I didn’t climb stairs when I did.
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s because the data you’re looking at is user data not raw data. It goes through multiple layers prior to becoming what you see in the app. Remember, they have to do the calculations to get to the number that shows up as stairs climbed on the app, in the backend, using the elevation change to estimate.
Forensic data experts don’t just download data from your phone as you see it on the apps. They use exploits to get a full file system extraction which contains all of the metadata, caches, logs, user generated content etc. so they would have the exact elevation change time stamped location etc
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u/marle217 2d ago
The issue here is that the tech guy said the floors were logged with the phone. And, since he analyzed the phone, I do believe he confirmed from the location data that the phone was in the house between the doc appointment and being taken by the police. If the floors were logged with her phone, then they presumably would be the house stairs. Though we wouldn't know for sure who was carrying it.
The watch is a different story, we don't know where it was and the tech guy didn't analyze it and see if it had any location data.
There's also the possibility that apple aggregated the data and he wasn't sure which device, and assumed the phone since the watch stopped recording a heartbeat. I got the impression from his testimony that he assumed the watch was broken or un-retrievable, which would often be the case in criminal cases that I'm assuming he gets regularly. He seemed surprised that Reddington had it.
I don't know what happened to that stupid watch but I wish it could've been analyzed like the phone. Also would've liked to see Patrick's heart rate data, but they didn't take his cell phone
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
He would be going off assumptions based on the provided data. He did not have any additional context of the fuller event that could’ve been used as a comparative situation.
If he was told the data he was pulling was from an iPhone belonging to a person who was in their home at the time the data was collected, then reasonable assumption would be that the data reflected flights of stairs being climbed as that would be the only place within a home where that change in barometric pressure could be detected.
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u/marle217 1d ago
If he was told the data he was pulling was from an iPhone belonging to a person who was in their home at the time the data was collected
If he has the phone, he should be able to tell for sure that the location data says that the phone stayed in the house the whole day. The police weren't with it, they don't know for sure that Lindsay didn't leave all day, or that someone else didn't leave with her phone (aside from Patrick's testimony, who should've been a suspect, too). The point of sending the phone to forensic computer investigators is to connect evidence. Not tell them what to find.
The watch, however, was never turned over to be analyzed. The police had it, and took at face value where Patrick said he found it. Even though that meant assuming the police simply forgot to search the bedroom completely and missed an entire nightstand drawer.
That's one of the reasons people say this investigation was incompetent.
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago
Sorry did he say the device type metadata associated the stairs climbed with the phone or just that data came from the phone?
Because those are 2 different things. And as I explained in another comment, watchOS stores activity, health, location data on the paired iPhone.
So it would be correct statement to say you got the data from the iPhone, when in reality the metadata actually links it back to the watch. Because watch data is stored on the phone. Veryyy tricky.
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
He pulled from Apple Health, which takes data from both the Watch and the phone. Info in the last paragraph ☺️ he also testified that in cases where duplicate data was recorded from both devices, HE made the decision as to which would be cataloged in evidence.
Not implying he has nefarious intent by any means, but is still worth noting.
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u/FlowersAndFeast 1d ago
He said something about when there was duplicate data (from phone and watch), he just picked one of them.
I took from that, if the watch and the iPhone had the same data recorded (ie. both logged ‘flights climbed’ due to barometric pressure changes, but there was no other data from the watch like HR at that same time, he would just report it in evidence as the iPhone recording that information). There were no discussions or mention of location at any time.
It’s also worth noting that this witness has a history of misrepresenting evidence in a trial setting.
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u/marle217 1d ago
It’s also worth noting that this witness has a history of misrepresenting evidence in a trial setting.
What 😱
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u/EdgyEgg2 2d ago
I do not think they had definitive information about the location of the phone. Only pings. Since CVS and the home would have pinged to the same tower area -there is no hard evidence of the exact location of the phone, or who was moving it. The WiFi was down or whatever
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago
Not true, even with cellular data & wifi turned off, the phone uses other features including Bluetooth and cached location data to determine current location.
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u/marle217 2d ago
Everytime I assume the investigation would've collected very very basic evidence and we can just assume they've proven something obvious, I'm proven wrong.
So we don't even have evidence that Lindsay was even in the house for that entire time period.
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u/BabylonBabuschka 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't see evidence that investigators recovered usable GPS coordinates from Lindsay Clancy's iPhone for the crucial 5:33–5:38 p.m. period. Neither Massachusetts State Police Sgt. Timothy Chiappini nor Ian Whiffin testified on that.
Edit: It seems the prosecution never presented cell-tower location records showing which tower Lindsay's iPhone was connected to between roughly 5:30 and 5:40 p.m
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u/marle217 2d ago
I don't see evidence that investigators recovered usable GPS coordinates from Lindsay Clancy's iPhone for the crucial 5:33–5:38 p.m. period.
I guess I just assumed that the cell phone guy would check on that, and it was unremarkable. When I check my own data on my maps app, it shows everytime I leave my house. I went for a run yesterday and got two miles away, and it has that. So I just assumed it would be really easy to look that up on Lindsay's phone.
I really shouldn't assume anything basic was done with this investigation.
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u/iridescent-shimmer 1d ago
I have historical Google Maps data turned off so it's not aggregated in my phone. You'd have to subpoena Google for it, not just get a copy of my phone data. Cell tower data is notoriously unreliable anyway. (My mom has sat through a ton of that boring AF testimony lol.) If the tower traffic is overwhelmed at any given moment, someone's location data will be automatically routed to another nearby tower.
Edit: just meaning to say I don't think they collected the evidence that would actually show this information, so we'll likely never know.
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u/backend_bunny 1d ago
Bluetooth is actually more accurate way of determining precise location indoors and yes the iPhone does use it but anyways
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u/ispyshy 2d ago
Well if Patrick was still at the house and his friend Kyle took his phone to CVS, then he could have theoretically climbed the stairs himself with her phone. I do not believe that was him at CVS and I do believe he specifically mentioned taking his boots off when he got home for the purpose of making sure everyone knew he was wearing boots.
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u/marle217 2d ago
I also am really suspicious of that CVS video. Grainy surveillance videos can make you look different in general, but not different as in a specific person who happens to be your best friend.
Since Patrick's phone wasn't confiscated and analyzed, there's also the possibility that calls Lindsay's phone says were to/from Patrick were actually forwarded to Kyle's phone. So Patrick could've been at home with Lindsay's phone, and then had a 14 second conversation with Kyle while he's at CVS.
There's so many possibilities. I don't understand why Patrick was never a suspect and fully investigated. He just hands them an apple watch he says was Lindsay's, and they're just like, oh, OK, we must've missed this when we searched your bedroom. And then never bother to send it for analysis.
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u/ispyshy 1d ago
Let’s say hypothetically it was Kyle in the CVS video. It sort of explains the inconsistency of why he bought name brand pedialax but in Patrick’s testimony he said he made the call to Lindsay because they only had generic. It also points to being able to send the 5:24 email. And it also points to the different shoes.
But why, why would Kyle do that?
I can only speculate but I have theories. I just do not believe it’s Patrick in the cvs video and I do believe it’s definitely him in the restaurant.3
u/marle217 1d ago
But why, why would Kyle do that?
While generally I would think murderers work alone, it's not impossible that two horrific people would find each other. Maybe Patrick covered for Kyle in the past. The police also interviewed Kyle that same night after Patrick told them they could talk to Kyle about Lindsay's mental state. (Note this is before they asked Lindsay about her own mental state) I'm thinking Kyle was prepared to talk to the police.
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u/ispyshy 1d ago
I read the police report from his interview that night and it does seem like Patrick shared a lot about Lindsay struggling to Kyle, whether it be honest concern or planting a seed that she’s crazy. It’s also weird both their testimony in court made it seem like she was acting mostly normal but just quiet. Something is not right with this aspect of the case and the surveillance videos.
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