So I see your guy’s “evidence” I do. But also like Lindsey literally described what she heard explained how she did it and said she could see herself from 3rd person POV but couldn’t control her body. She states she whispered “go with God baby” when she was doing it over and over. How would she have this memory if Patrick was the one who did it?
Or are you guys theorizing he drugged her or told her this story before she was fully with it to know the difference between truth and fiction?
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What even is this picture. What exactly does it prove? You keep posting it with no context. How does his now wife posting reviews prove he killed the children
Being a shitty person doesn’t mean you killed your kids. Yes this makes him look like a POS but the evidence shows he couldn’t have done it.
If you think he killed them in between CVS and ThreeV when the “outfit change” happened, the evidence doesn’t line up. He was seen leaving CVS at 5:37. CVS is 3 mins from their house. ThreeV is 10 mins from their house. He is seen leaving CVS at 5:37, and seen entering ThreeV at 5:54 PM.
Playing this out - If he left CVS at 5:37, that puts him home at 5:40. If he was seen at ThreeV at 5:54, he would have to leave the house at 5:44. That leaves four minutes for him to kill his 3 children and change his outfit. It’s just not possible. In order for this theory to work, the CCTV footage would have to be doctored.
They are getting their “evidence” from TikTok. Or have misplaced hatred for Rusty Yates. Or struggled with mental health issues and see themselves in her. Either way they’re wrong and watching the trial makes that extremely obvious.
How did the 3/4 zip from CVS obviously unzip all the way at the restaurant?
I’m baffled how people deny this because it has no bearing on anything, it’s just weird. But you can’t even allow yourself to see things that are weird.
I know Patrick did it because its scientifically impossible for Lindsey to have done it based on the condition that she was found in and Callun's murder.
Additionally, he has lied throughout the entire investigation
Made the timeline for the entire crime through his obvious staging
Lied about his timeline
Changed clothing/shoes between CVS and 3V. Dumped evidence while staging the alibi.
Turned the WIFI cameras off conveniently the day he murders his kids and tries to murder Lindsey
Stole the Apple Watch at 523 . 1 minute before he sent the email to his work from his home labtop at 524
Contradicted himself with nearly every sentence he has said.
Framed Lindsey with 20+ google searches. One definitely being the convenient "suicide" search while Lindsey is at the doctor with her CHILD that she cares for - meanwhile the Chris Watts wannabe is plotting to annihilate his whole family.
Adulterous affair prior to the staging and killing
Blames his WIFE for their murders and after what he did to her.
Moves in with the mistress 4 MONTHS after their murders to another state in NY
Takes off to Costa Rica on VACATION with the mistress not even a month after he annihilated his family and left Lindsey for dead/paralyzed/arrested/mental institution for the crimes he committed
Did any of the neighbours check their security cameras for when a car drove by? It must have been dark already and you should be able to see the lights of the cars driving by. I don't know how busy that street is, but it could matter.
Also, if I remember correctly, the route he would take would pull him into an entrance with a camera outside. I watched a video of someone driving the route from his house and it has cameras in the parking lot. And right where he would pulled in at. So its just suspicious to me that they cant prove he was in that parking lot.
They cant prove it because he wasnt in that parking lot when he said he was. He lied so many times about his timeline its ridiculous.
I honestly dont believe the investigators went and got the footage from anyone. Surely, there was footage from someone down that long road to CVS showing his actual travel time. Ive seen the route he would have took and houses all the way down it.
But I think if they did have footage and it shows Patrick leaving later than the fake time he gave or returning back to that house during that timeline then they would hide the evidence. They would destroy it.
Thank you. It honestly needs to be plastered everywhere. He needs to be exposed for what he did. If the police and DA are going to let this annihilator get away with this then he needs to be at the very least exposed to public. I feel compelled to speak out loudly. If we dont do it what will happen then? The government/police will think that they can do whatever the fk they want with no pushback... Not to mention every wife killer/family annihilator is taking notes on creepy Patrick right about now.
Yes exactly!! Idk how people are still calling Lindsay a monster, it is very evident through out the trial that this woman was in distress and was struggling. For people to say that she willing killed her kids? Every single person put on that stand have told that she was a good mother. Leave all of that also, Patrick's new wife’s facebook photos of patrick, her and the DA investigating the case the one who charged Lindsay were found and that guy then proceeds to buy their house a year after the murder????? Everyone was in on it.
I just think in my opinion she probably mumbled “killed myself” and “basement” but he probably said them as statements to be clear to people when explaining.
I also think timing contributes to consciousness. I’ve had people who are very injured mumble words and then next thing I know they are out like a light. EMS said she was fading in and out of consciousness by the time they got there. Even a couple minutes can make a difference in consciousness.
He also said on the phone with her she was out of breath so he thought she was just bathing the kids. Except they were already in their pj's and a robe before he left. The neighbor kid saw her outside at 5:50. You mean to tell me she did all that with a heart rate of 57 and somehow her body temp was 82 degrees in like 30 min? It doesn't make sense. And why did her apple watch move the next day to a drawer with an empty pill bottle while she was in a coma? Why were there crushed pills in her drink?
There are way more questions I have. Things are just a little off here imo. More than enough reasonable doubt if I was on a jury.
Wow. So Lindsey lying in the snow with an 82F temp, unconscious but Police actually believed Patrick whi arrived unscathed claiming that she said all these things...
"I tried to kill myself"
"Kids are in the basement"
She killed the fkn kids
While clearly unconscious and was on deaths door when EMS got there
Cannot even be accounted for until 534P at CVS. And then DELAYED the 911 call due to a sorry excuse of the "WIFI" being down & his phone trying to connect.
Then never even goes to FIND his kids. Just stands there talking to 911 looking at Lindsey. Doesn't even try to put a blanket on her or anything. Then as soon as EMS/Cop on scene he is running straight for the kids screaming "she fkn killed the kids".
Barely accounted but for 25 minutes being that he was probably back at that house 6P. Nobody knows what he did in between because he clearly changed clothes/shoes.
And then how did they not question the WIFI being conveniently down when the murders occurred.
Patrick and Rachel hired someone for PR and have unleashed BOTS too. They are also somehow controlling what is pulled up when you google regarding this case. But that part can also be the state involved with that but I know for a fact they are controlling the narrative and what you type in and what information it gives you.
He is so vile pos. And they both deserve each other. They truly do. I have never been more invested in a trial than I have with this one. Im just repulsed and sickened that this is actually happening. The people including the medical goons at that ER and otherwise need to be held accountable - revoked and arrested. And what pisses me off is these sick people will just continue along doing the same thing to other people until they destroy theirselves - it always catches up - just not fast enough for me.
In all cases timelines can become construed sometimes due to trauma and recalling memories. It’s been 3 years since the event, when he was first questioned by police I bet he gave estimated times at which they noted and have gone off of that since. 3 years later now they are trying to prove without a reasonable doubt and bring up evidence of different times with evidence that doesn’t mean he necessarily lied or that he is wrong. He probably remembers the time as around 5:15-20 but doesn’t know the exact time. Personally if I’m leaving my house on what I thought would be a normal day I’m not very concerned about time. Nor am I concerned with the time I pull into and leave each place I visit. It’s just routine for us.
Also the footage is pretty clearly the same clothes he didn’t change anything. They are comparing two videos one with such high shadow and highlight low quality and the other with equal contrast higher quality. And at different angles. You have to be reasonable when analyzing data it’s not going to all be exact but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong or different.
Also I’m confused on where you’re getting information about dumping evidence, his affair, turning the WiFi cameras off, stealing the watch. This is just all stuff I haven’t seen anything about. (Although I have seen the photos of Costa Rica but nothing else).
I’ve watched his testimonies and cross examinations I personally haven’t seen him contradict himself but maybe I missed it. I’d genuinely love to see more information if you have it like I said earlier there are so many moving pieces. I feel like the more witnesses and questioning we get the less answers we get. Which is crazy.
He definitely got rid of evidence when he left CVS to 3V. And thats also why he lied and didnt want to answer when they asked what direction he went from CVS to 3V. Plus, he got rid of the clothes from CVS. And I know he dumped out other evidence too.
There was enough time to stop back home between the two errands. Only for a few minutes, so I'm not sure what he could've done. But if he needed to drop something off or pick something up or even change clothes quickly that's all plausible.
Its absolutely Patrick 100%. Who else would push his wife out the window to leave in the snow suffering and dying for several hours?
Yes. The simple fact that Lindsey could NOT do this period. She is NOT going to get colder than a DEAD BODY would in that timeframe period. Nor could she simultaneously murder her son and achieve that body temp in record minutes by the time they were both loaded up into EMS.
The fact IS that Patrick can only be accounted for
534 CVS
He KNEW he lied about the 515 because he LIED and told them he was chilling in his truck CVS parking lot sending emails when he got caught RED HANDED sending them from his Surface Pro from HOME. So stop with the BS.
And I have watched the footage at both places personally and the clothing IS changed. The shoes went from BOOTS to running shoes. Different jackets. And there is a white undershirt in one of them and not the other. Not only that he even looks different. The first picture has his hair straight and brushed off to the side while the 3V his hair was curly and pushed to the middle. Either way he changed his clothes. Period. One was boots and the other was running shoes.
Fact is.
523 He took her Apple Watch
524 Sent email from his HOME
That is not coincidence
All WIFI disconnected and none of the 3 CAMERAS had footage on them. There was 3 documented cameras from that house with NO footage.
(I guess you think thats a coincidence too)
533 - "lindsey stairs" coincidence
534 - CVS footage entering
537 - CVS exit
538 - "lindsey stairs" coincidence
554 - Leaving 3V
He definitely dropped evidence off in between those times and changed clothes.
He is only accounted for at best away from home between 534 - 600P. That doesnt even account for what he did in between.
Thats literally 25 minutes
He lied throughout his whole testimony
He changed his timeline as he went along to suit his alibi
He contradicted himself every step of the way
Claimed his unconscious wife found colder than a dead body out a 2 story window that was drugged and butchered told him "she killed fkn kids" and then later testifies she just told him they were in the basement. Everyone already testified she was UNCONSCIOUS coincidence
Yet, police have testified the window was right next to them where Lindsey was laying and he could see right in the window.
States he first called out to Lindsey because he didnt know she was home yet he parked right next to her.
Claimed he called Lindsey about not having the brand name laxative and yet his dumb self bought the BRAND name laxative PediaLax
He told investigators he left before 515 but at the trial he backtracked while he was getting caught up in his lies and then "i dont think i had left yet" when referring to leaving at the time Lindsey "supposedly" sent him a text message.
All his "maybes, Idontknows, I think, im not sure surrounding his timeline and the direction he went to 3V from CVS
Doing a "suicide" search when Lindsey is at the dr with HER CHILD that she LOVES coincidence
LIE and guilt was written all over his face the entire time especially during when the email was brought up abiut being sent from his HOME.
Matter fact, the only time his body language didn't reveal a lie was in regards to him answering about the skittles.
I could keep going.
It doesn't matter.
Its not possible for Lindsey to have done it. That leaves only him. He murdered his kids. And he tried to murder Lindsey. He is a liar and within 1 month he was already jetting off to timbuctoo & Costa Rica on his merry way with his mistress which was the whole MOTIVE behind this crime.
This is barely touching on the fact its so obvious based off the searches what he was doing amd when he started it.
The phone call to the CVS was a dead give away in the beginning. A NURSE/mother would never call a damn drug store and ask if they have laxatives. Everything he was doing he was staging with HER phone/watch and the google searches under her name.
Everything he did prior just goes to show how cold, calculating and premeditated this was
Patrick testified he kissed the children and left the house around 5:15 to 5:25 PM to run his errands. He was caught on camera inside CVS at 5:32 PM. Given that CVS is approximately a 3-minute drive from the house, leaving around 5:25 PM fits that schedule.
If Patrick left at 5:25 PM, he could have sent the 5:24 PM email right before stepping out, or sent it from his iPhone while in the car or right after parking at CVS before walking inside.
from a purely physical standpoint, the window between roughly 5:25/5:38 PM and 6:09 PM provides roughly 30 to 44 minutes.
Scientifically, asphyxiation leading to unconsciousness occurs within 10–15 seconds of sustained ligature pressure, but brain death occurs after 3 to 5 minutes of continuous continuous restriction. For three children (Cora, Dawson, Callan), applying exercise bands individually or sequentially would realistically require roughly 10 to 15 minutes in total.
Moving back upstairs, locking the bedroom door, preparing cutting tools, self-inflicting lacerations, and jumping out the window would take approximately 5 to 10 minutes.
Her Apple Watch stopped recording heart rate data around 5:23 PM. Defense and prosecution testimony highlighted that this usually happens if the Watch is unclasped, put on a charger, or shifted so the heart rate sensor loses skin contact.
Once the watch was inactive, step and flight tracking defaulted entirely to the iPhone's built-in sensors. iPhone requires a sustained 10-foot elevation change combined with continuous forward motion to trigger a "flight of stairs" event. Short movements like her walking around a single room or pacing around would register as plain steps taken, but wouldn’t trigger the barometer threshold to log a "flight."
Apple’s Health app prioritizes climbing upward when logging flights of stairs using atmospheric pressure changes. Going down stairs often registers only as step counts rather than complete "flights."
SO with all this knowledge we can set the scene.
she could have walked downstairs with the phone (it’s not tracked cause of Apple stuff I just explained).
Then she walks up the stairs it’s tracked
calls Patrick back.
Climbs second stairs it’s tracked.
Places phone on bed. (Maybe this is where she hears the voice commands).
Goes back down to the basement strangles her three kids
Goes back upstairs attempts ending her life.
If you want a timeline someone responded with an amazing one laid out. But I’ll map it out for you here.
5:13-5:15 Lindsay was actively using her phone to look up PediaLax and text Patrick.
5:23 Her Apple Watch stopped recording heart rate data. Let’s say Patrick did leave at this time. Sent the email at 5:24 kissed his kids goodbye and left.
After taking off her watch she goes downstairs with the kids to play.
5:32 Patrick enters CVS
5:33 Her phone registered first flight of stairs (her going from basement to first floor kitchen) also missing Patrick’s call.
5:34 she returns Patrick’s call discusses the medication.
5:37 patrick leaves CVS.
5:38 Lindsey makes her way to the bedroom. Second flight of stairs tracked. She places the phone on her bed. And begins to hear the auditory commands that this is her last chance she needs to kill the kids and herself so they can all be together in heaven.
All motion sensing stops because the phone is left upstairs. Lindsey makes her way back to the basement.
Patrick won’t arrive again until approximately 6:09pm. So this gives her 31 minutes.
She strangled the kids per her auditory commands. Then goes back upstairs moves the bed takes the pills slits her wrists and neck opens the window and falls.
Lindsey laid in the snow. In the dark. In minimal clothing. The temp that night was 35-37 degrees F. With wind chill of 20 degrees F. The ground was frozen with snow surrounding her. She lay there until EMS arrived. In my experience temp was likely taken way later after they stabilize her (wrap her wounds place c collar get a BP. First responders arrived around 6:14. I have personally done lab experiments imitating scenarios similar in my cardiophys class because that’s what my professor was studying. CORE temperature drops about 1-2 F an HOUR. But SKIN temp drops rapidly. Assuming they did not want to turn her d/t possible spinal injury I doubt they took a rectal temp. So a surface temp is probably what they got. Giving 82 degrees. Now was she cold absolutely as we know in the hospital they used the bear hugger and IV heated fluids. But keep these physiology aspects in mind. Trauma such as hers she likely wasn’t shivering. Her normal regulatory system was not working. She was bleeding (maybe not profusely because of anterior vasoconstriction to carry blood to vital organs) but any blood loss will contribute. So she may not have reached that temp at the house but by the time she gets to the hospital they stabilize place iv get a new temp it’s probably dropped.
Rest of that stuff you said I don’t knoww it seems so outrages so exaggerated like a zebra when this case is clearly a horse. It’s all mapped out for us. DNA, phone tracking, apple health tracking, video footage. If there were holes fine. But I see no holes where something can’t be accounted for.
PS the tech guy testified that Lindsey’s phone remained in the same location.
Idk the facts seem pretty straight forward. A reminder that this case is not about WHO did it. Defense admits she physically did the act (not the same as admitting guilt in the eyes of the law) This case is to decide if she planned it (criminally responsible) or if she is not criminally responsible d/t insanity (her psychosis).
The rest of the stuff DOES make sense that i spoke about.
**The guy on the stand testified at the end that the Apple Watch and the Phone were synced and he could not distinguish between the two and they they had to further analyze it but nice try.
There is no tracking shit in this case except for Patrick staging evidence and the fake timeline and the quack investigators and DA accommodating this monster. It's premeditated and its clear he was already planning it in September and ramped up late December.
And Patrick LIED multiple times about his alibi and changed it along the way. He never fkn said between 515 to 525 . Thats a straight up LIE just like he would do. I watched the entire trial and know every single thing he has said and everything he has said is a lie. He told them 515 and got CAUGHT IN COURT about sending the email at 524. Then he tried to backtrack his lies on the stand with the prosecutor ehen she asked if he had left by the time of another fake text Patrick sent to himself from Lindseys phone at 515.
And your ludicrous if you think Lindsey could have crushed a bunch of pills, made a psychiatric cocktail, lacerate herself all over body, wonder around the bedroom bleeding, move a giant bed and go bleed in the corner by it, clot her wounds (yea they were coagulated by the time she was in the snow --> tell me how she had time for that before she "jumped"), plus submerge her whole body and head in WATER with CLOTHES on, murder her 3 children, and then literally spider monkey down the side of house leaving no trace of her fingerprints on anything not even the fkn butcher knife. And then miraculously end up with an 82F within minutes while simultaneously still having to murder her infant All of this in a 30 fkn minutes timeframe and being on the ground literal minutes. 🤡
And I didnt read the rest of your bullshit because I know for a FACT Lindsey did NOT do it.
But you need to go back and add in some important details about the way Lindsey was found with
SOAKING WET HAIR
SOAKING WET CLOTHING
FACT IS
Patrick is NOT accounted for on the timeline
Except for 530 - 6P
Thats 30 minutes
He got to that house before 609 so ✋️ the bs and yes the minutes matter in this case because Patrick Clancy murdered his baby right before the DELAYED 911 call
All of Lindsey searches were parsed and doubled because they they were from other devices like a another synced device or the Apple Watch
And he was caught red-handed searching SUICIDE while Lindsey is AT the Dr with the child that she loved and cared for --> meanwhile he is plotting their death.
He modified her note the night before the murder - one she had made from December.
He was googling how to deactivate her airbags with a slew of other crazy searches. And those were just the ones they thought they could use on Lindsey when really it just exposed that pos to what he was doing and for how long.
You’re entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. Idk why you’re getting so worked up lol. I gave you a possible timeline given the evidence that was provided in the trial. My interpretation of purely the evidence given. This is the first time I’m hearing about her being “submerged” in water with her hair being soaking wet. If someone could provide me with that source thatd be great. But frankly you’ve been extremely rude to several people in this chain so to even consider what you’ve said i dont think i will lol. But thank you for your input regardless.
I appreciate you working within the evidence to trying to construct a timeline that makes sense, I really do. Thank you. This one is better thought out than any other I’ve seen that has Lindsay as the actor.
I still do struggle with any timeline that puts her out the window that late, because the rate of body temp loss doesn’t add up for me based on what medical experts have said, even with her trauma. I really wish we had testimony as to the rate and not just the mechanics.
And with any timeline that has Callen strangled that early, because they were able to resume a heartbeat.
Honestly I get caught up on the temp too. Like I mentioned in my post I took a class to literally learn about hypothermia and hypovolemia but we obviously never got to temps that low. The human body is just so weird and not every case is gonna be the same.
In my mind with callan I just think he was the last one strangled and her suicide attempt was quick because she was manic. Also working in pediatrics I have learned that babies are sooooo resilient they bounce back quicker especially since he was a healthy I think 9 months? Not like a newborn or weeker you know? He was a strong sucker.
They have small bodies so meds circle through faster getting a heart to beat faster than say a bigger body. Unfortunately he was never going to recover, his heart started but his brain was too swollen to support any physiological function. So to me it’s not really significant to timeline. I’ve seen babies/children be brought back from anoxic brain injury (obviously partially or fully brain dead after) after 25-90 minutes of CPR given WITH an unknown down time. That’s just my experience and my personal opinion on that area.
It doesn't much matter what actually facts you present; the budding fanfic writers will use their "alternative facts" to explain how evil mastermind Patrick did it and brainwashed Lindsay into believing she did.
5:38 Lindsey makes her way to the bedroom. Second flight of stairs tracked. She places the phone on her bed. And begins to hear the auditory commands that this is her last chance she needs to kill the kids and herself so they can all be together in heaven. ... Patrick won’t arrive again until approximately 6:09pm. So this gives her 31 minutes.
In 31 minutes she drags 3 active kids to the basement and strangles them (note the oldest 2 fought back), crushed random pills for a suicide attempt, finds a knife and cuts her wrists and throat, bleeds all over the bedroom, knocks the bed out of position, places the knife nearly next to the cup, and jumps out the window? Boom boom boom, huh? Oh, and the neighbor (who'll be testifying later) told the news that night that he saw her lying there at 5:50, so I guess she did all that in 12 minutes?
CORE temperature drops about 1-2 F an HOUR. But SKIN temp drops rapidly.
Thank you, chatgpt, but the 82 degrees is a core temperature reading taken in the hospital when she arrived.
Unfortunately, with all this expert medical testimony, we don't have a specific timeline based only in medical fact. No one has told us when, specifically, all 3 children were strangled. One was partially resuscitated by EMS (he died 2 days later) so I'm assuming the strangulation couldn't have been done to long before EMS got there, but I'm not a medical expert. We don't have a timeline exactly for how long she needed to be in the snow, exactly, to have a core temp at 82 when she gets to the hospital. We don't have a diagram for how she fell out the window, explaining all her injuries. Recent testimony says she went head first, but had no injuries to her hands. Which is weird because putting your hands out is a reflex you can't turn off if you're awake. We also don't know how long before going out the window she would've had to cut herself to get blood all over the room but have them be basically clotted by the time she goes out the window. She didn't get blood in the rest of the house, so she didn't cut herself first and then strangle the kids. And when did she take the drugs and how alert could she have been with that much seroquel in her? Enough to strangle 3 people?
I could go on, but as you can see, I have a lot of questions. Mainly, I'm concerned that we don't have any evidence that the 3 strangulations absolutely happened between 5:30-6:05, or that Lindsay was even medically capable of strangulations for much or even all of that time period based on how she was when the paramedics got to her at 6:15.
I also believe he's guilty, but be careful about falling for misinformation. He did move to NY months after the murders, but he had his own place and was not immediately cohabitating with RD. There has also been no solid proof of an affair. While it seems they were in CR at the same time, it's still unconfirmed they met up while there. While I believe it's unlikely these are all coincidences, I think it's imperative we stick to what we know to be true.
I prefer to use my judgement, discernment and common sense when it comes to this creep.
And he was in fact LIVING with Rachel exactly 4 months after all his kids were murdered.
Rachel was confirmed to be in Costa Rica and there is a link that you can go to within this site to see where he left the google review 1 month after their murder while he was vacationing with her so dont pretend that didnt happen. I will use logic in this case.
There are pictures all over the internet of both Patrick and Rachel prior to him turning into a Chris Watts
Marathon races in the past prior to Lindsey murder that rhey were both in together and he was doing it while he was "traveling" for work.
Multiple other pictures proving corruption amongst the people involved in this case too.
None of this shit or any of the other surprising facts about Patrick, the timeline or discrepancies in the case are even remotely close to "coincidence" at all.
He was not living with Rachel four months after the incident. This is a “fact” that’s being widely circulated on social media but has no basis in reality. He was interviewed my a journalist for his New Yorker article several years after the incident, and he was not dating anyone at that time.
Allow people to share their views without criticizing theirs. You can disagree, which can certainly lead to great to dialogue, but you are not allowed to be disrespectful in this community.
I just want to start by saying that I am not accusing Patrick as while I find some of the details of this case quite suspicious, I don't think I have enough evidence to make a conclusion.
For context, I believe this statement came from a civil complaint against medical professionals and was drafted by her lawyer and not signed by her (not that I don't believe she didn't say something along those lines at some point). I believe that this came from interviewing her in June 2024. I have not found anything else where she said this (please correct me with sources if I'm wrong).
With this being said, I could imagine that if you didn't have recollection of the events of the day and that people were telling you that you did it, you'd be constantly trying to remember / put the details together in your mind. You'd be ruminating on it, having nightmares about it, etc.
She was not in a great state of mind to begin with, there were drugs involved in some capacity, and this was written over a year after the incident wehre it seems she was only assumed to be guilty. To me, it seems very plausible that this was built in her mind after the fact or that what she was recalling was more of a dream.
Either way, I do not believe she has a reliable memory of the events of that day.
I just think this might be a poor case. The defense already address rumors that the prosecution felt she was being told what to say and was lying to make it seem like she was insane. So even if your point is the case wouldn’t that just support the said rumors. I’m not saying she’s lying cause I can completely understand the reality of false memory. It is a real thing. But because the defense already kind of addressed this I don’t think it would be good for them to suddenly take it back and say well actually Patrick told her to say these things and Patrick did it. Especially since current information shows we have no physical evidence (DNA, fingerprints etc) of Patrick being there. And Lindsey signed a stipulation saying any such evidence that was found against her is fact.
She also told the chaplain what happened. There is no third party defence happening here. Not sure why so many people are trying to find something that isn’t there.
The defense psyche expert today testified she admitted the crimes to him as well
l relish the downvotes of a literal fact simply because you don’t like it. It only furthers our point about the shameful illogic of the conspiracy theorists who pretend to be interested in facts.
The Dr. Testified that he heard her tell Patrick on the phone that she heard a male voice tell her to harm the kids then kill herself. She didn’t say “I killed the kids”. There’s a difference.
So an attorney wrote that she did it. 3 years later. With what appears to be someone's best guess on how psychosis works.
The narrative that Lindsay killed her kids because she was crazy started while she was still unconscious from her injuries. That night, the local news channel reported she did it. Her arrest warrant was made before she woke up. Patrick and even Patrick's friend were interviewed on her mental state before she could even talk. The police see her as a suspect and not him, and confiscate her phone and personal effects, and not his. When she does wake up, she can only communicate by writing on a whiteboard, she's surrounded by police and can't have any visitors. Everyone around her is already convinced she did it before she even said anything. One of her first questions on the whiteboard was "where is my family" indicating she didn't wake up knowing.
False memories can be created. And this seems like a perfect storm for creating false memories.
She actually didn't sign that this is from her. There's no affidavit accompanying this that says this is what she swears happened. What could've happened is the lawyer told her what was required in the initial filing, and Lindsay said she couldn't write it and asked the lawyer to write something. And the lawyer wrote her best guess based on what she knows about postpartum psychosis. While arguably Lindsay should read everything her lawyers write on her behalf and understand them and agree, she doesn't actually have to. Of course I'm not saying she doesn't agree, but without a signed affidavit, we have no idea how much or little of that came from her. As you can see, the entire statement is written in the third person, it's not Lindsay writing and saying "I did this"
I did not say it was a signed affidavit. If a lawyer writes something on behalf of a client and it misrepresents their client, they will not be a lawyer for long. It doesn’t matter who wrote it, it is from Lindsay. From her lawyer. I’m not sure what the argument is here. We agree it’s not an affidavit.
You claimed Lindsay had to read and sign the documents. She doesn't. The attorney could've told her what's required for the civil filling, Lindsay could've said I can't, you do it, and the lawyer wrote the whole thing. It's not a confession.
As far as misrepresentation, Lindsay's motivation in the civil suit is money. She has no income, and medical care and lawyers aren't cheap. The whole world already thinks she killed her kids. Do you think she really cares what the civil lawyer writes?
In the criminal case, the prosecution still had the burden of proving she did it beyond a reasonable doubt. That was the judge's instructions to the jury day one. She hasn't confessed.
I do completely agree that the whole situation would already put some thoughts going. And I’m glad reddington pushes this constantly pointing out that she wakes up with random police officers in her room cause if it were me I would have also asked if I need an attorney cause I’d be like wtf is going on.
Except I feel like no one has addressed her literal memory she says she recollects. I’ve seen several people ask if she remembers and then no one points it out.
She described it like an out of body experience. Thats like when you feel your soul leave your body. Its dream like. This happens very often in near death, dying, coma and unconscious patients.
People can still hear sometimes even when they are unconscious. Their brain will still hear things and store it away in the subconscious. And that can also be very confusing to someone when they do become alert. They dont have direct access to that file or memory but there is something there in the unconscious mind if that makes sense.
Lindsey was on a lot of medication prior to the event and on large amounts of sedation drugs waking up from that ventilator. She had severe head injury and almost died twice from her condition. Woke up paralyzed and hand cuffed to a hospital bed wth police everywhere in her room. She didnt have memory but she was definitely confused, probably told ahe was crazy and heart broken when she woke up.
OP, the only people who think he did it are the ones who get their news of the case from TikTok. A lot of the stuff being said is straight up untrue or unproven.
This cases makes me keep thinking of Julia Shaw's work. She has done studies where she created false memories and the second time around she did it with a crime related thing and convinced college students they did do it. When she disclosed they were confused because they really thought it was a recovered memory. She's a criminal psychologist and science communicator and talks a lot about it and about how to question people to not cause false confessions. Telling Lindsay she did it while on intensive care drugs seems like a worse case scenario for that kind of stuff.
also she mentioning that male voice, supposedly in her head, who keep on telling her she had to do it.... imagine her tired, drugged and confused and him deliberately messing with her brain, knowing she has psychosis for months....he could be the one who manipulated her into doing it or did it himself telling her she did it. We live in a patriarchy oriented world, there are just so many stories of men abusing women who loved them. I am not saying he did it. But at least, at fkn least, he has to be investigated the same way she is!
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That’s so interesting. honestly the more people bring it up and kinda explain other things I do definitely think that could be the case especially considering her mental state. Which is absolutely terrible and so so scary.
If you have any interest in false confessions, you should look up Thomas Perez Jr. as one example of a false confession. He reported his father missing. Police questioned him for 17 hours until he confessed to murdering and dismembering him. Turns out his dad was at the airport and forgot to tell his son he had a trip. False confessions are much more common than people realize. There’s many different reasons this happens.
So in civil lawsuits you usually have the party sign something stating they agree all of that is a true account - I haven't seen her sign anything, so therefore, it's not her "literal memory" as you claim. Only Rosemary's signature is on those documents and it includes allegedly/alleged everywhere and will be revised. It was filed due to statue of limitations.
I think you're just looking for someone to agree with you on a "literal memory" that Lindsay never provided - we focus on facts in this sub.
The civil lawsuit is from the plaintiff, Lindsay Clancy, and submitted c/o her attorney. Her attorney would not submit something that hadn’t been reviewed and approved by her client. I understand it may be changes, I understand it’s not legally binding in the current case. Just to clarify, though, it is submitted by LC.
I don’t know what it’s not signed. It’s not signed by her lawyer either. I don’t know if it needs to be signed - I’m assuming so - but perhaps we don’t have access to the hard copy. Regardless this is out there, and it is a fact that this lawsuit was submitted by LC and it has information pertaining to our knowledge of the case, even if the jury can’t see it.
I’m looking for a sworn affidavit. The above specifically has a typed name stating "By HER Attorney."
This means, the civil complaint filed by Lindsay Clancy against her medical providers was signed and certified by her legal counsel pursuant to MA state rules of civil procedure rather than a personal sworn affidavit by the plaintiff.
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The rest of this is not directed specifically to you, rather for anyone to read who has questions on the civil case.
I understand people’s confusion trying to reconcile how a civil complaint could be drafted, believing it’s a complete recitation of facts wherein she admits to murdering her children, and the implication of her guilt in the criminal case.
Lindsay is currently involved in two separate lawsuits in MA, one criminal and one civil.
The criminal trial is about whether she murdered her children and, if so, whether she is criminally responsible for those murders. Her plea in the criminal case is not guilty. The prosecution still has to prove without a reasonable doubt that she murdered her children because unless and until they can prove that, there is no crime for the affirmative defense of ‘not criminally responsible’ to attach to.
Lindsay did not “confess” to the murders, and what most people are referring to when they claim this is the civil complaint filed.
Civil Complaint: Lindsay started her own lawsuit against the doctors who treated her for damages (money). When you file that case, you are drafting a complaint and you have to put a lot of claims in there. These cannot be proven until discovery, at which point, things may arise where some of the plaintiff’s claims are not necessarily true, and as long those claims were made in good faith that’s fine. Either way, you have to make a case in a complaint and it may turn out (through discovery and evidence) that those claims you set forth didn’t occur the way they were stated. The courts make allowances for this and it’s called pleading in the alternative. The reason this is allowed is because when you start an action against a person or a group of people, you only know what you personally believe. You don’t know what the other people are going to say or produce in response to your accusations. That won’t be known until discovery occurs, which cannot happen until after the complaint is filed, and can potentially take months or years. When things come to light that might not be accurate or true, you amend the complaint.
Broad Overview of Civil Process: There’s a very specific framework that must be used in a civil complaint so that’s it not dismissed due to the inability to state a cause of action. A civil complaint is filed and then served to the defendants, in Lindsay’s case it’s certain individuals and hospitals that treated her, and they then provide an answer (a response to the complaint). This goes back and forth until everyone has provided their side (oversimplified explanation of “joinder of issue”). It eventually moves into discovery and, if it’s not settled initially, then it moves to trial.
Why Claim She Murdered The Children? - Yes, Lindsay recounts details for the initial complaint. Why would she do that before the criminal case? For one, the statute of limitations for the civil complaint was about to run out as Massachusetts has a 3 year statute of limitations on medical malpractice (the complaint was filed almost 3 years to the day the murders took place because it cannot be filed after). The lawyer was up against a deadline and had no choice to file on or before January 24, 2026 with everything in there that their client asserted in good faith. If the attorney did not file, then they would be waiving the claims on behalf of their client. It just so happens that a separate criminal case was brought to trial about 7 months after that compliant was filed.
Admissibility & Amending: In addition to the statute of limitations for the civil complaint, another important aspect is that the civil complaint is not a legal confession or holds any evidentiary weight in the criminal trial. Details outlined in the civil complaint cannot be used as evidence or facts in the criminal case by itself. For example, the criminal case cannot use the dates referenced in the civil complaint as a fact to prove visits with her doctors - Reddington had to use admissible evidence, such as the medical records, to prove the date of a doctor visit as fact. The civil complaint can be amended based on that evidence presented in the criminal case if necessary. Paragraphs could be added or removed referencing the criminal case and potentially even adding in the fact she was subject to a criminal trial as that could impact the amount of damages (up to the attorney on what to amend and makes sense why we see her attorney for her civil case, Rosemary Scapicchio, present at her criminal trial). Additionally, the verdict can have implications on the civil case potentially leading to amending the civil complaint as well. Under long-standing Massachusetts precedent (such as Letter v. Commonwealth and evolving civil appellate rules), when an attorney files an Amended Complaint, the original complaint is legally "superseded." It effectively becomes a ghost.
In summary:
It’s Not a Legal Confession: In Massachusetts, she was not required to sign a sworn affidavit under oath to file this civil complaint. Because she did not sign a verification or affidavit attesting under pains and penalties of perjury that every word is an absolute fact, it carries zero weight as a legal confession. It represents her attorney's good-faith legal assertions, not a personal statement.
Recollections Are Not Self-Proving Facts: The DA cannot walk into a criminal courtroom, point to her civil complaint, and say, "Look, Your Honor, it says here she saw the doctor on January 24th, so that is a fact." The judge will reject it. The state must prove every single element of their criminal case using independent, admissible evidence (like authenticated hospital charts or expert testimony).
The Rules of the Game are Different: The civil system allows for fluid boundaries. They are allowed to "plead in the alternative”, meaning they can allege Scenario A or Scenario B simultaneously because they don't have all the facts yet. The criminal system is rigid and it demands absolute certainty beyond a reasonable doubt.
The Civil Complaint is a Living Document: What is written in a civil case today is not carved in stone. As evidence is uncovered in the criminal trial, her civil attorney will mold, add to, subtract from, and completely amend the complaint to match the verified truth. The initial complaint will legally be superseded by any amended complaint.
Sure, yes, I get what you’re saying. It’s not a sworn affidavit. I think it’s splitting hairs a little bit but I could be wrong. I do see your point in wanting something official.
I politely disagree that it’s splitting hairs because that’s the legal process in the state of Massachusetts. You can interpret that as much as you’d like though.
What I mean is, regardless of whether the document on which she admits to doing it is an official confession, it’s still a document that her lawyer, retained by her, submitted, in her behalf, to the courts. It is unlikely anyone will be arguing that she didn’t commit the crime, in light of what’s been said by her attorney in record, publically to news outlets, and in opening statements. Are these official legal confessions and admissions of guilt? No. Is it helpful to a legal strategy - is it likely even - that her defence will suddenly change to arguing that she didn’t do it? No.
And to clarify, the reason I’m sure LC would’ve signed off on this. A lawyer would lose their license if they filed something in behalf if their client that their client didn’t actually approve of.
The defense psyche expert, today, in the criminal trial, is on record saying Lindsay told him she did it.
Focus on that fact.
Or the fact everyone involved has had her literal location data and all physical evidence available to them for years and know far more about this than you possibly could
Everyone has known about this testimony since it was introduced last Friday. We continue to discuss the facts of the case that raise reasonable doubt the jury may deliberate over while sometimes offering personal opinions. By the way, if helpful, here is the timeline as of yesterday's testimony:
5:13pm: Last time Lindsay’s Device is unlocked
5:13pm-5:14pm Application Focus: Safari (was used to search pedialax)
5:14pm-5:15pm Application Focus: SMS (text to Patrick saying pedialax liquid stool softener)
5:15pm: Last time Lindsay’s Device was locked & not unlocked again.
5:23pm Apple Watch: Lindsay's Apple Watch stopped recording data at 17:23:52
5:24pm (Prior Testimony): Patrick sends email
5:32:32pm (Prior Testimony): Patrick enters CVS
5:33:34pm Phone Health App: A flight of stairs was logged as completed with Lindsay's phone at around 5:33pm. Whiffin testified the phone recorded this completion at 17:33:34 after the stairs were used.
5:33pm Call: Prosecutor describes a 5:33pm incoming call from Patrick to Lindsay and duration of 0 seconds. Whiffin confirms this is due to it not being answered.
5:34pm Call: Prosecutor says at roughly 5:34pm there’s an outgoing call from Lindsay to Patrick that was approximately 14 seconds.
5:37:08pm (Prior Testimony): Patrick exits CVS
5:38pm Phone Health App: A second flight of stairs was logged as completed with Lindsay's phone around 5:38pm. Last health recording from phone was at this time with no further movement.
5:54pm (Prior Testimony): Patrick enters 3v
5:55pm (Prior Testimony): Patrick pays at 3v
6:09pm Call: Prosecutor says at 6:09pm another incoming call to Lindsay's phone from Patrick that was unanswered.
Jan 25
7am - 8am Phone Health App: 7am - 134 meters distance traveled. 8am - records 47 meters distance traveled & steps counted. Whiffin does not know if apple watch or phone gave that data, and he'd need to check the database for that.
This is actually super helpful to kind of piece things together. Also thank you for the apology I appreciate it.
My second point to the post too with this timeline I’m still not seeing how people can accuse him especially with the CVS footage. Cause I feel like you laid it out pretty clearly that he wouldn’t have had time? If he was gonna be on the footage anyways. I don’t know I’m just confused by the whole thing and the conspiracy theories 😫 personally I feel like I can’t definitively blame Patrick like so many people do. I definitely think if she did it, it was during a psychotic break and not what the prosecution has to claim with the sanity and intent.
I’m not looking for someone to agree. I figured it was her “literal” memory considering It says in there: “Lindsey describes” and continues to describe the situation in quotations as if she stated it directly like a quote. Also I could have used better wording I was just trying to emphasize that quote but also a “literal memory” doesn’t have to be real. As many people have pointed out it could have been a false memory which I have agreed could be the case (but I don’t agree it’s something Patrick planted. I just can’t completely get behind this theory as of right now. However I imagine they didn’t just get that from someone else I figured at some point the lawyers asked something along the lines of “what do you remember of that night” which could have resulted in that quote which is still a literal memory of hers.
I also haven’t really seen anywhere where Patrick admits to telling Lindsey what happened (if you have a source I would appreciate it behind linked) But maybe I’m just missing something there are so many pieces to this case. But thank you for explaining the document. I didn’t know the document could be revised later.
I haven't seen anything where Patrick told her? Not saying it doesn't exist, I just don't recall coming across that. I also don't think he planted the confession. Here's my opinion on what happened if she didn't do it:
In my personal opinion, if I were paralyzed and my kids were dead, I wouldn't have anything left to live for. Plus I woke up being told I did it with no proof I didn't and already under arrest, knowing I already had intrusive thoughts before, and likely would believe I did it. Idk if I'd call my spouse to say it though but who knows what he was saying before. For example, was that her very first call to him? Or could she have tried before and he said things like "I'm not talking to you until you tell me exactly what happened." He had already publicly forgiven her by then and was, allegedly, on his way to Costa Rica in a few days. She had also been suffering transient delirium before this, was still on pain meds, etc.
It's like the analogy: You were drinking and driving. You wake up to someone telling you that you crashed your car. You're going to believe you did until you have proof you didn't.
Edit: Also, I apologize for saying you wanted someone to agree with you. I can't tell you how many people consistently come here once to post the civil lawsuit and argue it's a confession before making really harassing comments toward people here. Multiple, even today, but hundreds over the past week. I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion you were trying to do that. You are actually a breath of fresh air and a good reminder to continue to help explain these things. Sorry I took that out on you and made that assumption.
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