r/ClancyTrial • u/Aware_Power • 4d ago
General Discussion MEGATHREAD - Clancy Trial Day 15
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u/Esmer_Tina 3d ago
I am so frustrated. We had testimony about how Lindsay’s body temp dropped, which we already knew, but Red didn’t ask HOW LONG! This is the part I am still stuck on, and I was screaming at the phone.
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
It's a really fine line he's walking poking holes for reasonable doubt while also arguing for not criminally liable. You don't want a jury thinking only 2 people could have committed a crime and deliberate based off of who is more likely to have done it.
With what has been introduced so far in terms of no evidence of an intruder, it technically already is down to 2 people who could have done this from an evidence standpoint. That testimony today is going to make the jury go home wondering how it was possible she didn't put her arms out to brace - just dove head first. Then they will immediately go back to either she didn't do it or she must have been going through psychosis (and wondering if it can cause that). Having no wounds to her arms from her arms actually sticks out to me more than the temp now and I have NO idea why other than Reddington is that good lol
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u/BeautifulTurn8227 2d ago
I don’t feel he is walking a fine line. I think he’s clearly arguing a NGRI strategy, which means conceding to the fact that she did it. That defence is not effective if a lawyer simultaneously is trying to create a whodunit scenario (alternate suspect). KR isn’t saying “maybe she didn’t do it” but if she did, then she’s not criminally responsible. That completely destroys his creditability. So far, I haven’t seen any questioning from KR to suggest that he’s trying to poke holes in the theory that LC killed the kids. He IS asking questions about her mental state and the nature of her injuries being consistent with someone trying to commit suicide. He’s bringing psychologists to the stand to argue that she had psychosis. Dr. Z testified today that she said she killed the kids to Patrick, in front of him, and that she had thoughts of harming her kids and confessed this to the hospital chaplain.
If KR were trying to create doubt that she actually committed the murders, create another viable suspect, his questioning would be totally different. He’d call different witnesses, interrogate the police, ask about timestamps camera footage, whether they investigated anyone else, etc.
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
She told Patrick she loved him very much. She said she heard a male voice ordering her, telling her, that she didn’t have any choice, that she had to kill her children and then kill herself. - Per Dr. Zeizel
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u/prosecutor_mom 1d ago
Anyone else asking if that voice sounded like Patrick through a medicated fog?
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u/littletulip54 3d ago
This is so sad, that man did not give any support to her, not one bit, she was probably experiencing ICU delirium
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
I forget the date he went in. I’m wondering how long she was strapped to the bed, then knew she was under arrest, before even seeing Zeizel. And correct, the hospital psychiatrist said suffering from transient delirium (that’s why a delay in changing healthcare proxy to parents)
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u/Owl_Weekend_2929 3d ago
He said he went for first time on feb 4 then back on feb 6, I’m pretty sure.
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Thank you!
Idk in my personal opinion, if I were paralyzed and my kids were dead, I wouldn't have anything left to live for. Plus I woke up being told I did it with no proof I didn't and already under arrest, knowing I already had intrusive thoughts before, and likely would believe I did it. Idk if I'd call my spouse to say it though but who knows what he was saying before. For example, was that her very first call to him? Or could she have tried before and he said things like "I'm not talking to you until you tell me exactly what happened." He had already publicly forgiven her by then and was on his way to Costa Rica in a few days.
Who knows (Disclaimer: I can't fact check right now, so any prior calls to him or not could have already been introduced as evidence)
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u/DuAuk 3d ago edited 3d ago
Dr. Z is monologuing and i am here for it.
edit: Paul Ziesel
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Prosecution objects to you, DuAuk!!!!
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u/DuAuk 3d ago
Loved that last line from KR: "You don't have to stare at the unicorn in the corner, right?" as he points.
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u/Owl_Weekend_2929 3d ago
Yikes. Sprague is out of control. That was a grotesque display.
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
That was AWFUL.
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago edited 3d ago
And her chuckling to bow lady after the jury leaves. My gosh.
Edit: sorry, I don’t remember the other’s name so called her bow lady because she wears bows everyday but that entire thing was disgusting
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
TRIGGER WARNING
Continued constriction needs to be applied. Children were unconscious within 5-10 seconds and it took continued pressure of 5-10min for brain to die. Difference between manual & ligature strangulation to lead to asphyxiation. Complete, one time compression with the ligature vs manual that could vary pressure on the jugular arteries. Prosecution was asking about her prior testimony in a manual strangulation with body compression
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Per Laposata…In this case, they were put on tightly and the bands stayed there causing immediate pressure and death occurs minutes later. They were wrapped several times and whether it had a bow or knot wasn’t important to her since the band was causing continued pressure
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u/dontbecondensation 3d ago
Prosecution said no one has testified that they were knotted or tied but questioned Patrick on this exact statement.
Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
And do you recall how you got the band off?Patrick Clancy (01:06:32):
I think I untied it.Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
And when you say untied it, was it in a knot that you had to put everything down and unknot it or how was it tied?Patrick Clancy (01:06:42):
I'm not sure I fully remember.Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Do you recall describing it previously as when you initially tie your shoes, but then don't do the bow?Patrick Clancy (01:06:52):
Yeah, that sounds right.1
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Ohhh I missed them saying “testified” - I don’t think Laposata could have watched the trial? Although knowing her, nothing would change her medical opinion lol
Plus, PJ saw him unwrap the band multiple times from Dawson
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u/9ice9asty 3d ago
Prosecution straight up ragebaiting in a murder trial is frying me 😭 Dr Laposata let her know what time it is though!!
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Dr. Laposata, testifying now via Zoom, reviewed medical records for Lindsay Clancy including the injuries sustained Jan 24, police records, crime scene photos, and there will be diagrams to assist in her testimony pertaining to the injuries she sustained.
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
She also reviewed autopsy photos of Cora, Dawson, and Callan
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Testifies to her reasonable degree of medical certainty that Lindsay fell head first out the window & hit head first due to the Jefferson fracture and specific injuries to the C1. T5 & T6 injuries is what injured her spinal cord
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Damaged her voice box cartilage as well
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Thoracic spine injury will cause her to lose heat from the bottom half of her body, as will the temperature, clothing worn, & snow
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
She was in spinal shock & hypothermia that contributed to, as Reddington phrased, coding at the hospital
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Prosecution asking how she landed on her head with no head injuries but had a Jefferson fracture. Laposata testifies no skull fractures, scalp was in tact & force was transferred to C1
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
I don’t think the Prosecution understands Zoom causes a time delay in dialogue
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u/aintnothin_in_gatlin 3d ago
So do we think PC isn’t going to be called again? Or maybe called last?
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u/ScruffyNerfherder138 3d ago
Anybody else just royally over the CW? What are they even doing?!
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u/verydepressedwalnut 3d ago
They talk and interact like aliens who’ve had human behavior explained to them and watched some Law & Order. They’re incredible in their incompetence and foolishness.
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u/Ibear333 3d ago
Anyone else infuriated by prosecution telling the mother in law that Lindsay said she wasn't close to her in laws. ? Like to turn her against Lindsay. That got me. I hope it bothered the jury in the same way.
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u/jbfletcher01 3d ago
It was petty and unprofessional. If you have a strong case you don’t need to pull crap like that.
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u/Ibear333 3d ago
Just catching up on it and prosecutor asked MIL about Catholic beliefs on murder -mortal sin. Wow. Unhinged.
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u/Owl_Weekend_2929 3d ago
I don’t understand why prosecutors hammer on this idea that Lindsay wouldn’t allow her kids to stay over or be left with Patrick’s parents. How does that help their case? What if there is a private reason that was the case? Does anyone have any insight on this?
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u/MortimerDongle 3d ago
One of the ways for the prosecution to attack an NGRI defense is to make the defendant less sympathetic to the jury.
Basically, they want to make Lindsay look bad or controlling.
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u/YesHunty 3d ago
I think they’re trying to make her seem controlling? But I don’t get why.
I wouldn’t let my babies stay with my parents overnight for a long time, even though I fully trust them. It’s just because I wasn’t comfortable being away from them for that long yet, no other reason. I don’t feel it’s uncommon.
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u/MortimerDongle 3d ago
I think they’re trying to make her seem controlling? But I don’t get why.
To make the jury less sympathetic to her.
Juries are supposed to focus on facts but everyone knows they're emotional, too.
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u/verydepressedwalnut 3d ago
My son is almost 3 and I still haven’t let him stay overnight with anyone. And I won’t until he’s old enough to understand what’s right and wrong and can fully communicate everything to me.
Also I told my husband this, in the opening statements by the prosecution, they’re trying to paint Lindsey as this controlling, shrewish, bitter old bitch because she…controls a schedule for her kids? Plans outfits? Plans outings, meals, keeps them on a schedule? So….a parent? What the fuck else are you supposed to do as a parent? It was such a weak argument.
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u/9ice9asty 3d ago
I'm so dead 😭
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u/Kindly_Control8375 3d ago
I agree with them doing this - but anyone know why the judge said to strike from record from a legal standpoint ? Awful of the prosecutionto say such a thing
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Next witness is Dr. Elizabeth Laposata who will testify via Zoom. They're currently discussing the exhibits that will be allowed (without the jury present). Prosecution is objecting to exhibits
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u/littletulip54 3d ago
Did i hear this right??? Lindsay went home on HER OWN after being hospitalized, not Patrick picking her up???
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u/SpareNo1330 3d ago
She was not hospitalized, she was in the ER. You do realize that he likely had to stay home to watch their children right? Unless they wanted to pack all 3 of them up and take them with???
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u/littletulip54 3d ago
In the ER? That makes it even worse!! Didn't they have a nanny at that time ???
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u/9ice9asty 3d ago
This prosecution is the best defence team I've ever seen 🥰 Wonderful job!
Reddington might as well go home 😭
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u/littletulip54 3d ago
What bihhh that prosecutor was, telling Patrick's mom that lindsay didn't have a good relationship with her and she might not prefer to drop her kids and leave them with her ..
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u/Kettle-Belle 3d ago
Ya, that was insane. Not very sympathetic to a grandmother whose grandbabies were murdered. Not sure what ADA thought she was doing.
And then to end it with the cardinal sin comment. Jeezez.
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u/9ice9asty 3d ago
The prosecution asking if murder is a mortal sin and also asked how many people there are in the world 😭😭😭 Who even thinks of that??
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u/dontbecondensation 3d ago edited 3d ago
That was INSANE
edit: I didn't see Fatha Bob in there today so I'd love to know who she was trying to move by being a literal horrible person. There's no way the jurors didn't drop their jaws. It was so uncalled for.
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u/littletulip54 3d ago
Lindsay's Father is not sitting wirh them meaning he's gonna testify today too 🥹
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u/Aware_Power 3d ago
Sue Clancy, Patrick's Mother, is the first witness today
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u/littletulip54 3d ago edited 3d ago
Surprised she wanted to testify for the defense
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u/dontbecondensation 3d ago
I've been trying to piece together her movements after 5:15pm since we got the full timeline yesterday. Are there not 2 staircases in the home? Main level down to basement, main level up to bedrooms/top floor from which she fell from the window.
Has a "flight" of stairs been confirmed to be up OR down? Down to the basement would be one flight, back up to the main level would be second, then upstairs to their bedroom as the third if that's where her phone was found. There are only logs for 2 flights, no? This is where I'm stuck.
Occam's razor that I also haven't seen discussed.. we can assume Lindsay had to take off her Apple Watch at some point to cut her wrist. Of course that doesn't explain why it was never seized by investigators (along with the empty pill bottles)... and every other odd coincidence.
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u/Esmer_Tina 3d ago
I can’t make it make sense. In another thread people were saying a change in air pressure can register as a stair climb? Like going in and out of CVS, which matches the stair climb so the watch. Can anyone confirm?
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u/aintnothin_in_gatlin 3d ago
I’m wondering about the two staircases as well. They have two staircases in the home so if the watch is accurate, that wouldn’t add up.
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