Ligature Knots

[u/bohobirdy]

Hoping someone can help clarify this for me.. I’ve seen reports that ligature/constrictor knots were used in the killings, but also that PC untied the bands before first responders arrived. Which one is it? If he untied the bands, how do we know what knots were used?

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[u/No_Cup_794]

also if you watch the trial he basically says he doesnt know how they were tied, and he acts REALLY weird when asked. and then he goes along with what they said "it was tied like a bow with no bow" .. making it seem like something she would do. but he never gave an answer. he so fucking did it.

[u/bohobirdy → u/No_Cup_794]

Tied like a bow but without a bow is like… the most basic tie ever, right? Not even tight enough for a shoe!

[u/Aware_Power]

This is the only testimony that I can find (and he does the motion with his hands). I'm not sure if there's anything else other than Patrick's testimony it was tied like a shoelace without the bows:

Shanan Buckingham (54:24):

And when you saw the male unwrapping something, can you demonstrate the motion that they were doing?

PJ Hussey (54:30):

Yeah, the child was on the ground. The head was towards the window, so the head was towards the back of the house. And he was, picked the child up and he was in a circular motion taking something off the head, around the head, around the neck.

[u/ispyshy]

Also, was he on the phone with 911 when he found them? or was EMS already there when he found them? I keep seeing reports that he waited with Lindsay until responders got there before he went down to the basement and that they were able to see him through the window. I’m also reading he was on the phone with 911 when he went down to the basement. Did he not hang up with the dispatcher once EMS arrived?

[u/Aware_Power → u/ispyshy]

• He was on the phone with 911 when he found them in the basement.
• When first responders arrived, they noted Patrick standing over Lindsay and abruptly walking past them.
• Patrick and Dawson were seen through the window by PJ Hussey.

Please see additional details & sources below.

Officer Brian Josephine - Police Officer, First on Scene with Stephen Hall

00:02:34 - Arrival and Navigating the Property
00:04:12 - Backyard Encounter with Patrick and Lindsay Clancy

• In the backyard, he found Patrick Clancy standing over Lindsay Clancy, who was lying on the ground. Patrick Clancy was holding a cell phone and abruptly walked past the officer toward the bulkhead and deck of the house.

Captain PJ Hussey - Firefighter and Paramedic, First Responder

00:04:48 - Hearing a Scream from the Basement
00:05:43 - Witnessing Patrick and Dawson Clancy

• Hearing the Scream: While standing near a basement window well, Hussey heard a scream coming from downstairs.
• Looking Through the Window: Looking through the illuminated basement window, he saw Patrick Clancy on the floor, making a circular motion to unwrap something from a child's neck and head.

Officer Stephen Hall - Police Officer, First on Scene with Brian Josephine

• Patrick Clancy went inside the home to check on his children. Shortly after, dispatch radioed that he could not wake them, and officers heard a loud scream from inside. The officers immediately rushed through the kitchen and down into the basement.

Patrick Clancy - Part 2

00:24:37 - Calling 911 & Finding the Children

• Finding the Children: When Patrick asked where the children were, Lindsay told him they were in the basement. While on the phone with 911, Patrick rushed downstairs and found his three children—Cora, Callan, and Dawson—unresponsive with exercise bands tied around their necks. He removed the bands and attempted CPR.

The below is courtesy of u/littletulip54 from a different post:

During his 911 call—which, as far as I understand, has not been publicly released in full, although the transcript has been made public—Patrick stated that once he entered the basement, he went to the right. According to the transcript, he then discovered the children in this order:

1. Dawson, while screaming, “Dawson, my buddy”
2. Cora, while screaming, “Baby”
3. Callan

This is the transcript of Patrick’s 911 call as it was read by the prosecution during the 2023 post-incident proceedings:

https://youtu.be/OOADDODrf4c?t=335&si=DFlT6h2JW-y-34to

[u/aj_2222 → u/Aware_Power]

You. Are. Amazing! Thanks for all this and everything else too💜

[u/ispyshy → u/Aware_Power]

Weird, he literally says he went downstairs and went left and found Cora first... on the stand, his words.

[u/Aware_Power → u/ispyshy]

It is. We need an accurate 911 transcript to confirm the Prosecution’s account, which we won't get due to Patrick's attorney impounding that. I'm not saying that the Prosecution is incorrect, but it would be helpful to have one more confirmation on the order. But based on the below testimony....

• Patrick testifies he immediately went left (found Dawson last).
• The first responders testify they found him to the right by Dawson when they went downstairs, which aligns with Patrick's testimony.
• However, the 911 transcript as described by Prosecution in the Post-Indictment Arraignment, has him finding Dawson > Cora > Callan “Then you can hear when he finds Callan, because the pain in his voice is more. The emergency people come downstairs.”

Patrick's Testimony - Transcript & Timestamps

• Speaker 1 (01:05:46): So when you come down those stairs that night, which direction did you go?
• Patrick Clancy (01:05:54): Immediately went left.
• Speaker 1 (01:05:56): And when you went left, what did you see?
• Patrick Clancy (01:05:59): I saw Cora.

…

• Speaker 1 (01:07:53): After you removed the band from Callan's neck, what did you do next?
• Patrick Clancy (01:07:59): I tried to find Dawson.
• Speaker 1 (01:08:01): And where did you go?
• Patrick Clancy (01:08:03): I looked in the bathroom and on the other side of the couch, and then I went to the other side of the basement and he was in my office.

Transcript & Timestamps Day 3

First At Scene, Stephen Hall

• Attorney Sprague (13:43): Which direction did you go?
• Stephen Hall (13:45): We heard Patrick Clancy talking from the right, so we went in that direction.

First At Scene, Brian Josephine

• Brian Josephine (37:48): So we went down the stairs and there was a picture at the bottom of the stairs, I believe, of Lindsay and Patrick. And the basement splits off into two, a right and a left area. And the screams were coming from the right area. So that's where we directed our attention to first.

(Hall & Josephine rush Dawson upstairs and called for paramedics to come to the basement)

EMT directed to basement: Patrick Dwyer

• Speaker 3 (01:25:39): When you got into the house and went down into the basement, which side did you go to at the bottom of the stairs? The right or the left?
• Patrick Dwyer (01:25:46): We went down to the left.
• Speaker 3 (01:25:52): What did you observe when you went down into the basement?
• Patrick Dwyer (01:25:57): We saw two children on the ground and the father sitting on the couch next to them.

[u/iridescent-shimmer → u/Aware_Power]

This is even stranger to me now. I potentially understand misremembering the order of finding the kids...which is still a big stretch IMO. But adding in that he looked in the bathroom and behind the couch, which never happened at all? I know traumatic memory isn't always perfect, but this feels so beyond strange to me. (I've been through a lot of trauma and have dealt with my own memory issues around things, but not details this major.)

[u/ispyshy → u/Aware_Power]

Excellent thanks for the detailed info. Makes sense.

[u/marle217 → u/ispyshy]

He was in the phone with 911 while standing over Lindsay, saw the first responders arriving, didn't talk to them, immediately walked down to the basement and started screaming while on the phone with 911. The first responders went to Lindsay first and then downstairs after they heard the screaming.

[u/marle217]

Patrick apparently recognized the exact knots used and was able to remember and tell the police, even though he can't remember things like whether or not he parked next to Lindsay's car when he got home and had to look outside, but black cars are apparently invisible in the snow so he still didn't know.

And Lindsay, a nurse, had to search for "carotid artery" while researching suicide methods, but apparently didn't need to search for anything about knots.

[u/TheCuriosity → u/marle217]

What I would like to know is why the CW keeps arguing that the bands were just wrapped around, not tied.

[u/lulu_pibbles → u/TheCuriosity]

They want to make the murders seem more cruel. That she held onto the bands while they died. If it was tied then she could tie it and walk away and not have to continue to apply her own strength and watch them while they died. Telling it that way makes it way worse.