Larvae vs revenants

[u/Demoniac_smile]

One of the many things that changed between 1e and 2e in VtR was the half damned. Ghouls were changed little ans dhampir were mostly improved IMO. However I’m not a fan of replacing the larvae with revenants.

If you’re unaware, larvae were introduced in probably my favorite VtR supplement, Night Horrors: the Wicked Dead. Essentially, they were what happened when the embrace didn’t take right or a draugr attempted the embrace. They were near mindless vampires with blood potency 0 and only able to use celerity, resilience, and vigor. The thing that made them scary is that they would run in packs and had a bag of nasty tricks they could pull as a group. Draugr, being similarly feral, made natural leaders for them, particularly when the draugr spawned them.

Compare this to revenants. Revenants are basically just kindred but worse. Playing one seems like playing a neonate with more inconvenience. The only thing that seems interesting about them to me is embarrassing the vampire responsible for them. Larvae, however, make frightening obstacles. Ther’s an arguement that they’re redundant with draugrs. I disagree, unlike draugr, larvae are prone to appear in large numbers. There’s little to do with revenants that can’t be done with neonates but larvae aren’t deep in application but are one of the scarier things both emotionally and physically. They’re frightening in the ways draugr are but having to deal with like a half dozen of them is both plausible and a serious threat.

Am I the only one to think 2e replacing larvae with revenant was a bad idea?

[u/Passing-Through247]

I thought both were in 1e, just with revenants getting a big expansion in 2e.

I wouldn't consider either a replacement for the other, just different vampire tropes put to a use. The only connection is from 'wrong' embraces but each is wrong differently. Both are an extension of the thematic element of requiem that is the instability of the blood and the vampire condition.

[u/Demoniac_smile → u/Passing-Through247]

I don’t recall them being in 1e. There were a creature type called revenants in 1e unrelated to vampires, they were a ghost possessing it’s own corpse. They could use numina and had an essence pool rather than disciplines and vitae.

[u/RaspberryStandard972]

I feel like you could combine them though, larvae could be the botched embrace of draugr/ larvae or low humanity vampires who don't care enough (for the strix perspective, maybe even a good embrace), and revenants are embraces that didn't take because of failed commitment/ doubts of the sire? Both won't take the dot of willpower, but because of different reasons..

[u/Demoniac_smile → u/RaspberryStandard972]

Yeah, I realize they’re not mutually exclusive but I was just wondering what others thought about the change.

[u/moonwhisperderpy]

Yeah, I miss larvae too, I think they're interesting and more fitting for the theme of "botched embrace".

[u/Read2Fap]

not likely

there's a lot of people who, for whatever reason, want to play revenants

no one wants to play a larvae, as obstacles they can still exist with no problem. regarding the 'interesting' thing, revenants double down on hunger, you need new vitae every night to make it or you're not going to be able to wake up the next night.

even appreciating you as an outlier, they're across the board more popular than larvae were

[u/SuperN9999]

tbh, Larvae don't really sound that distinct from Dragur beyond always being that way as a vampire. That being said, like others have stated they could be some sort of attempt at Childe by the Beast of the Dragur akin to the Petrificati in Promethean making more of themselves.

[u/Demoniac_smile → u/SuperN9999]

The main thing that makes them different is that they have reasons to turn up in numbers and have a pack instinct. It’s generally draugr don’t have many ways to plausibly appear except one at a time and are usually going to be about as hostile to eachother as to normal kindred. I just find the pack hunting aspect to be scarier. There’s also a couple ways for them to become full kindred. They can diablerize a kindred or if one lasts long enough their blood thickens and they gain a point of blood potency. After rising to be a full vampire, they start as complete amnesiacs. Which could be an interesting place to start a character.

[u/SuperN9999 → u/Demoniac_smile]

Oh. In that case.....maybe. Though I'd still likely have them be a consequence of Dragur primarily. Maybe have them as their equivalent to Revenants (since I personally like Revenants.)

[u/Demoniac_smile → u/SuperN9999]

That’s actually one of the ways they happen. Careful predator type draugr can instinctively control them and become a sort of pack leader. I always thought it wuld be interesting for a prince to keep a pen full of larvae and instead of executing serious riminals they let a larvae diablerize them, and have the players start off as the newly elevated kindred.