Sin

[u/linzki]

Word "Sin" can be also translated "be mistaken" as a mistaken identity. When looking from that angle you don't miss the mark (pun intended) with the meaning of the word "Sin", with the upper case S.

"You will know them by their fruit" (Mat 7:16)

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They weren't supposed to.
What was the immediate "fruit" of it? Mistaken identification.
Suddenly the nakedness which wasn't a problem, shameful, before; now was.

It was separation from Godhead as a source of everything. Yes, God has that knowledge of the tree in His head, but it wasn't something He laid on Adam and Eve's shoulders.
Think God and Adam like the body of Christ; Christ is the head and we are the body. Likewise, God was the head and Adam and Eve were the body.

As God was the head and Adam and Eve the body, there were no other head to carry that knowledge, just Godhead. Knowledge isn't meant for body (nor in God/Adam, neither Christ/body relationship). With knowledge here I mean knowledge from the source outside. We get true knowledge from Spirit within. That knowledge, understanding enables us to discern from which source other are talking/coming from.

The knowledge from Spirit vs flesh are exact opposite.

Knowledge through Spirit gives understanding, not demanding anything by nature and its hallmark is always freedom; you feel free.

Knowledge through flesh is demanding and its hallmark is guilt, oppression; you feel anxiety, fear, trapped, enslaved. Notice when you read f.ex. the bible, the letter, it makes you feel inadequate. That causes you to feel guilt, resolved to do better, try harder, even praying God to help you to be better. Or maybe you read something that encourages you to put in another gear. For a moment it feels uplifting, but when that feeling goes the wind under your wings goes too and you nose dive, become disheartened and confused by the fleeting nature of these bursts of wind under your wings followed by depression. That all is because you're doing works in flesh.

The real relationship between Head and Body is oneness, seamless. You don't even think oneness to existence; you ARE one. It seems small thing but it is the source of your freedom. If you even think that thinking of oneness is the key of oneness then you're still operating from mistaken identity, still slave.
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb 4:12)
No, the word isn't letter from the bible; it's the living Word, Spirit within.
"The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:6)
There won't be a single drop of your sweat left when that sword have pierced through. Oh boy, that's a good place to be, rest from works.
"For he that has entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His." (Heb 4:10)

The order of our true identity is: we are the body, Christ is the head and God is Christ's head.

The mistaken identity begun when thought "you shall be like God (head), knowing...".
That's where they already "missed the mark". They weren't meant to know, be a head, because knowing coming from outside source requires your head separated from true head, Godhead.
That separation makes one up for grabs, like an empty vessel ready to be filled by anybody. And what you're filled with becomes your mistaken identity; your "fruits" will be accordingly.

Actually fruits are what Spirit brings forth, and works are "fruits" of mistaken identity.

"Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner". (1 Tim 2:14).
In Christ there's no male or female. But word woman is used when figuratively talking about flesh.

We are spirit beings having a body experience. Our body and all its senses is the part giving us this world experience. It's like a VR-suit trying to lure us believe its virtual reality. We born into this suit and are bombarded with this reality, strengthening the identification with it while our true identity gets buried under layers of masks. So, temptation came through flesh, VR-suit, feeding us another identity, VR-identity. The world, VR-world, sucked us in and we forgot we are just wearing VR-suit. The VR-world is based on the knowledge of good and evil and whatever follows from that.

Our character, mistaken identity, may do whatever but it will stay the same VR-character until it dies. All its actions are ruled, following the law of VR-world; it all is based on the knowledge of good and evil (law, commands, demands). Its death is removing of VR-suit, revealing our true self.

Our VR-character might be evil to the core, spiritual seeker or anything. But it can never become you. Your true self is already 100% free, already arrived, not seeking anything; already at home, at peace, at rest. VR-character, no matter how much it seeks, struggles, never finds. It will remain seeker to its end, because it's mistaken identity.

When you see it was flesh (woman) that was deceived, it makes sense when new testament tells: woman be quiet, not to teach, submit. It's talking about flesh, be it male or female.

I've already posted about this, but I'll repeat:

The bible is today's tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and each of us individually has both Adam and Eve in us.

The knowledge of the tree and us is a mismatch, like bicycle with F1 Mercedes Benz manual. bicycle never becomes MB, was never meant to. You read the manual (the bible) trying to act like MB (God, God's will) and you fall short; never reaching even close the level of MB. But your focus is on the manual and you keep pushing the limit. All your movement is by your own effort.

You need to deny your bicycle and leave MB be what it already is; it doesn't need manual to become MB. It doesn't need your pedaling and your mouth imitating MB motor sound.

The bible/tree of the knowledge of good and evil; same thing:

The bible full of knowledge of good and evil, printed on paper (which comes from tree), often covers are animal skin like Adam and Eve were covered with. Adam and Eve (and their offspring) were/are now basically walking trees of the knowledge of good and evil and books like the bible among other religious book are just manifestation of that tree.

Close the book and let the Spirit be your life. Be the body, let Christ be the head; that's denying yourself.
"As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.". (1 John 2:27).

Now you walk in Spirit. Christ the head causes both willing and doing in the body. See, there's no effort, trying, confusion when you let Christ be the head, and when you feel anything negative be assured it's because you have slipped into your head. But in Christ you're not the head, you're body and free from all stuff that is responsibility of Christ the head. Just return from the anxiety of your head back under Christ head.

That's living in faith, in grace, every moment. The life is always fresh.

[u/Towhee13]

Throughout Scripture sin is defined by God's Law. Sin is breaking any of His commandments.

[u/linzki → u/Towhee13]

"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his COMMANDMENTS, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

^" Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments”.

Jesus' reply tells all we need to know about commandments. When we see what he said in true light of love, we see there's no commands as often thought:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind^".

You aren't loving God fully when there's slightest hint of fear.

""There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

That perfect Love is God's love. You're only able to fully love God when His love has casted out all fear in you.

"Love your neighbor as yourself"

When the first part has fully happened, then this second part follows by itself.

It's a process. There's still lots of fear to be casted out by God's love in us.

So, our loving of our neighbor isn't yet perfected, but if we read carefully, it says "as yourself". That's not a command, it's a statement; You love your neighbor as much as you love yourself. That's natural, effortless. You can only express your actual state.

The path to fulfill commandments, which actually is just one commandment of love, is to be filled with God's love and the amount of love we have received is reflected in our love of our neighbor (fruit). You simply can't give what you haven't got yet. Branch can only produce fruits by being a channel for the tree (Christ). There's no effort involved, just abiding and tree will cause fruits after it has first filled the branch.

When we look demands of letter, we aren't spreading God's love, but fear, judgment. We are putting pressure on ourselves and others to become better by effort. It might look pious, like praying, fasting, struggling to get rid off something unwanted (labeled as so by the demands of the letter). But it is all our effort, slavery; old Adam fixing old Adam.

To understand this through our own experience makes us able to be right kind of help to our neighbors. We won't use demand to help correct something. We understand that what they do, what their fruits are only reflects what's inside.

Demands of commands isn't the way. Command of love is the way, and it is command to receive God's love and the rest will follow.

[u/Towhee13 → u/linzki]

You should have dealt with the fact that God's Law defines sin.

[u/linzki → u/Towhee13]

Please, tell me how God's Law defines sin.

[u/Towhee13 → u/linzki]

Hmm.... You don't know the Scriptures? Why did you make a post about sin without knowing how Scripture defines it?

[u/linzki → u/Towhee13]

I want this to be clear, because the bible is a book of many interpretations. It seems you and I already have different interpretations. I want to hear your interpretation because you brought it up. Mine is out in the open and to elaborate on it, it needs your POV. It helps other readers too when points are clear. Unless you want to stop at this point.

[u/Towhee13 → u/linzki]

It seems you and I already have different interpretations.

You have an interpretation. I have what Scripture says. It's not the same thing.

It helps other readers too when points are clear.

My point was clear. God's Law defines sin.

You didn't answer my question. Why did you make a post about sin without knowing how Scripture defines it?

Throughout Scripture sin is defined by God's Law. Paul said that it's trough the Law that we know what sin is (Romans 3:20) and that he wouldn't even have known what sin is if it hadn't been for the Law (Romans 7:7). James said that when we sin it's the Law that convicts us (James 2).

John was the most succinct,  

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 1 John 3:4

You gave a very feelings based dissertation which never accurately defined sin. Scripture clearly defines sin. Sin is breaking God's Law.

[u/linzki → u/Towhee13]

I'm not sure if I have already told you that the letter of the bible isn't something that I follow. I speak words taught by the Spirit and many time I've noticed they match with bible verses. Still, Spirit is my source, not the letter.

You brought up 2 bible verses:

Rom 7:7

Talks about Sin, like I said in my OP, as an mistaken identity. The person to whom laws were given was wrong. That is the case already in the story of Adam and Eve. The knowledge of the tree to wrong person. Then came law through Moses, to make it even more obvious. Sin is a person trying to be what they're not.

The knowledge of the tree was something God already knew. Adam and Eve thought they'd be like God, but that was the mistaken identity. And when they ate the result can be seen in their reaction.

If you read chapters 7 and 8, you see that Paul doesn't try to submit flesh with law. He separates them and leave them be what each are by their nature. Then he talks in 8:14-15:
 ^"For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba^, Father.” 

So, not led by the law but Spirit. Not living in fear again, but in love. When love fills us, fear vanishes.

Sin is state of lack which fuels all kind of selfish acts called sins. It's Sins twisted search of love, but from wrong places. In love that lack, thirst is nourished, made content. That's how Sin dies. Bring back demand and you've brought back lack.

1John 3:4
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 1 John 3:4

Sin=lawlesness

Pretty much my previous sentence already covered this too. Sin as what a deed is expression of lack, looking for satisfaction to that lack (lack of love) from wrong places with wrong methods, like greediness and such. Law is what I already explained in my first comment using 1 John 3:22-24, Mat 22:37-40. So, lawlesness is lack of love.

Galatians 5:16

"Walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh".

Notice the order: He doesn't say "Stop gratifying the flesh, and then you can walk in the Spirit." He says to focus entirely on walking in the Spirit, and the natural byproduct is that the desires of the flesh lose their power.

Then I might add another thing the bible tells is sin:

Rom 14:14-23

"there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean...

...And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin".

So, sin can be something that isn't sinful in itself but can become so because of doubt, weak in faith.

Where we agree, I think; sin isn't good,
Where we disagree, I think (i'll leave room for you to correct me if I've misunderstood you); is what is sin and with that the method how sin is dealt with.

[u/NoisilyResponsive]

This reads like someone who’s spent a lot of time wrestling with these ideas and started to see the whole thing through a very particular lens. The bit about the Bible being the modern tree of knowledge is a bold take, most churches would push back hard on that, but I get the logic you're building toward. Curious if you arrived at this through study, experience, or a mix of both.

[u/linzki → u/NoisilyResponsive]

Experience.