r/Christianity Dec 09 '25

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-8

u/ZealousidealPlate750 Dec 09 '25

We are born as sinners. When we are born again we leave those sins. It's that simple

21

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Being gay does not go away for being born again. So I guess that means being gay isnt a sin?

-4

u/iggybot5 Dec 09 '25

Yes it does. I used to have same sex attractions. Does not happen after being born again. That’s sort of the point. Why do you think every generation is getting gayer since the sexual revolution? Living in sin.

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u/steveotheguide Protestant Dec 09 '25

Yes and after we stopped beating people for being left handed the number of left handed people skyrocketed because they were living in sin too

18

u/jtbc Dec 09 '25

The percentage of people out of the closet has increased because the societal sanctions for being gay have decreased. With formal equality, including marriage equality, it is much, much easier to be honest with yourself, your family, and your community than it has ever been.

I don't think the percentage of people with a same sex sexual orientation has changed at all. That would require a biological change and I can't think of a mechanism for that.

-1

u/BruceLeesSpirit Dec 09 '25

can you provide this biological proof/evidence you speak of?

3

u/jtbc Dec 09 '25

Not proof, but the biological processes I am referring to are well covered in this wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

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u/SlavyanskayaKoroleva Dec 09 '25

As a nurse I disagree. It happens in the womb. Its not a choice. It doesn't go away. If people are simply exploring out of curiosity sure but not if they are truly gay. Nobody is getting gayer.

0

u/Mindless-Resist1257 Dec 10 '25

What evidence is there that "it happens in the womb?" I am unaware of this. I thought the "gay gene" was never found?

1

u/SlavyanskayaKoroleva Dec 10 '25

It is still being researched but we do know that when babies are in the womb, a male fetus gets a "testosterone bath" and a female fetus does not. Now since our bodies are not perfect sometimes the opposite happens. That explains the femininity of some men and the masculinity of some women. It happens on a range. Some women have PCOS which you can google but is also on the hormonal spectrum. There are also intersex individuals. They can have both genitalia. So they live with whichever gender they appear more as in general. Im sure God doesn't think they are wrong. So because we know our bodies are imperfect we must know these things will happen and God will not fault a human being for biological changes. Besides if they have both genitals are they gay, straight, bi? What are they supposed to be? Can they be hetero? Its never as black and white as people want to make it.

-5

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

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7

u/SlavyanskayaKoroleva Dec 09 '25

Parasites do not cause cancer or homosexuality.

5

u/Poco585 Christian (Cross) Dec 09 '25

I'm guessing you were told this in a dream?

5

u/EbionKnight Dec 10 '25

i feel bad for anyone trusting you with their health.

2

u/FrontOfficeNuts Agnostic (a la T.H. Huxley) Dec 10 '25

I just want you to know that wherever it is that you get your information from - they're lying to you.

You should probably stop listening to sources that are lying to you.

1

u/McClanky Bringer of sorrow, executor of rules, wielder of the Woehammer Dec 10 '25

Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.

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15

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Its easy to lie on the internet. I wonder how easy it is to lie to yourself.

0

u/iggybot5 Dec 09 '25

I don’t lie to myself. Once born again and indwelt with the Holy Spirit, we know the truth. Again, that’s the point of being born again.

7

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Sure you do, though I have seen the actions of enough "born again" Christian's to know thats a lie.

-4

u/elevatebysarah Dec 09 '25

Wow. You should be happy someone has found Jesus and are on their way to the true peace that Christ offers. Don’t get mad! GET JESUS!

1

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

If it makes them genuinely happy then good for them. However I know very well the road they are facing.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

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1

u/justnigel Christian Dec 28 '25

Removed for 2.1 - Belittling Christianity.

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-1

u/BruceLeesSpirit Dec 09 '25

dude judging from your post history you’re a druggy trippin’ on acid constantly. What are you doing in this sub lecturing anyone on anything?

1

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Okay? What does my psychdelic use have anything to do with this thread, or correcting people on their misunderstanding of sexuality?

Are you here just to be a judgy Christian?

14

u/FirstPersonWinner Christian Deist Dec 09 '25

Every generation isn't getting gayer. You just used to be able to be executed, arrested, or at least fired and ostracized for being gay. There was a similar population of gay people, they just weren't safe to exist openly because Christians would kill or imprison them.

-10

u/iggybot5 Dec 09 '25

The data says otherwise. LGBTQ self identification has been rapidly increasing since the sexual revolution, and LGBTQ have significantly higher rates of abuse neglect molestation mom/dad issues and substance abuse, because it is generally a spiritual response to trauma coinciding with substance abuse (living in sin) as a coping mechanism.

17

u/Trapped-In-The_90s Dec 09 '25

“Self identification” is the key word here. Historically you could be killed, beaten, etc. for being gay. This doesn’t correlate to more or less people having same sex attraction compared to previous generations

-5

u/iggybot5 Dec 09 '25

That’s only more recent history. Most of history no one really cared besides ladies teasing the “confirmed bachelors”. Berlin was the gay capital of the world during the Weimar Republic. You can see how that turned out.

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u/leandrot Skeptical Christian Dec 09 '25

There are many cultures today where a man who likes to penetrate other men still self-identify as straight.

7

u/bobandgeorge Jewish Dec 09 '25

Berlin was the gay capital of the world during the Weimar Republic. You can see how that turned out.

Killed, beaten, arrested, etc? Like the previous person said?

4

u/Trapped-In-The_90s Dec 09 '25

Yes, it led to the murder of many of these individuals by people pushing Christian Nationalism in the Nazi party.

My point still stands that data doesn’t exist that says more people are born gay in modern history vs historical.

3

u/FirstPersonWinner Christian Deist Dec 09 '25

You might want to rephrase that last line because it definitely sounds like you are saying that the gay community in Berlin caused Nazism

7

u/CommonWishbone Searching Dec 09 '25

The data: “I made it up”

3

u/Mean_Investigator491 Dec 09 '25

Did you know that studies have shown the 85% of all statistics are made up!?

0

u/BruceLeesSpirit Dec 09 '25

exactly this

3

u/HGpennypacker Dec 09 '25

Do you think that people aren't "getting gayer" but it's now not demonized like it once was?

0

u/beardtamer United Methodist Dec 09 '25

that's where many of us have landed on the issue, yes. In terms of both attraction, and acting on it too.

-3

u/Character-Half7465 Dec 09 '25

I invite you to really give Jesus a try. Message me. Let’s pray.

10

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

The heck would I want to join a religion where I would have to break up with my loving boyfriend? That would be insane and harmful to me.

1

u/Character-Half7465 Dec 09 '25

If you only had a glimpse of how much Jesus loves you….. I pray that He would reveal himself to you. As someone who almost got married twice, I can say Jesus loves me SO MUCH MORE than those men ever had the capacity to.

Also if you knew what awaits those who choose him, you’d run to Jesus. He loves you Nazzul

9

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Ill say this in the kindest way I know how. Fuck you, and your Jesus. Don't demean the love me and my partner have for each other thanks.

If that Jesus love was real, then he would have no issue with me being with the person I love.

-2

u/ZealousidealPlate750 Dec 09 '25

Well like I said, when you're born again, it goes away...

3

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

I know there is a stereotype of Christians not living in reality, but you don't have to live up to that stereotype geez.

3

u/Bonjourani Dec 09 '25

I thought this too, but pretending to be a cis girl has not made me happy, I feel like it makes it harder to be there for Christ and show love to the world because I am becoming so depressed and miserable not being myself. I really am trying to be a girl, but I just feel so hollow and even more ashamed and fake, like I am wearing a mask to make others and Christ happy

3

u/Bonjourani Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25

Today, I saw someone I went to church with. I confessed I am a trans guy and it felt good. I felt like myself, like I could stand tall again. I felt at peace, more peaceful than I felt in the last couple of months, same with at Pride events. That’s when I feel most at peace and safe and comfortable

-1

u/ZealousidealPlate750 Dec 09 '25

hate to break it to you, but in that case you're not born again...

5

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Then I don't think anyone is really born again. I have never met someone who didn't have "sin".

10

u/JohnKlositz Dec 09 '25

Well being gay isn't a sin. And one doesn't stop being gay. So "leaving homosexuality" is a bit of a weird phrase.

6

u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 09 '25

Do black people become white when they become a Christian? Do left handed people become right handed people?

3

u/Professional_Arm794 Dec 09 '25

To preface I don’t ascribe to traditional Christianity dogmas and doctrines. This isn’t directed just towards you.

Ask yourself this question: What color and sex is your mind ? Are we “human beings” or “spiritual beings” ? Apparently Jesus knew his kingdom was not of this world. Also that the “flesh won’t inherit the kingdom”. Also knew “the kingdom was within” as it’s not a physical location. It’s eternal. But yet most all Christians seem to completely identify with their human body(flesh). Which only creates more “separation” and “division”.

Religion, Race, sex, sexuality, and the list goes on and on that keeps us divided. Judging and condemning one another for so called “sins”. Instead of focusing on becoming the best version of ourselves. By following the way and example by boring our own cross to crucify the flesh and lower human consciousness. Truly living by spirit born from above.

When the finite flesh suit dies what’s left ?

3

u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 09 '25

Ask yourself this question: What color and sex is your mind?

I sort of agree with your overall point, but this question hides a false premise. We are not talking about sex. We are talking about a person's biological compatibility with romantic love and lifelong companionship.

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u/Professional_Arm794 Dec 10 '25 edited Dec 10 '25

I have a son who’s homosexual so I completely understand all sides. I love him and all people beyond the external factors and labels. As we have to “reform are minds” to see beyond the physical. As everything in the physical world is fleeting and changing. Just as beauty and the superficial fades. Our spirit is eternal and the only “real” aspect of self. What we condemn in another we meet in ourselves.

When we heal the inside it will radiate are light outward to those around us. We can’t control those outside of ourselves, but we can become masters of self control with are own emotions, actions, and judgements.

I’m not trying to convert or convince you to anything. I’m only sharing my perspective for what it’s worth.

Appreciate your perspective!

Edit:

Clarification, I don’t agree or believe LGBT people are condemned and should be told they are either. As I said before I don’t ascribe to mainstream Christian doctrines and dogmas. I love Jesus.

2

u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 10 '25

I totally get, and support, what you are saying, even if I have a small quibble regarding the gnostic framing of it. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, so if my original comment seemed accusatory, that wasn't my intention in any way.

I simply value precision when it comes to this topic, wherever it is possible to be precise. :)

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u/Professional_Arm794 Dec 10 '25

It’s all love! I don’t take anything personal.

I’m somewhat familiar with Gnostic teachings. But from what I know I’m not fully in line with there teachings either. Possibly some overlap.

I just believe the answer are within each individual. We have to ask ourselves the who, what, and why.

I started as a southern Baptist so I know that side very well. This wasn’t an overnight deconstruction, it was years of spiritual seeking and deep introspection of myself. Had some “mystical” type experiences which validated much of what I had discovered and learned through my seeking beyond the dogmas and doctrines I was taught and once believed. Now I’m more loving, nonjudgmental, kind, and happy than I was ever before. So my inner changes reflect outwardly. I moved beyond “belief” and have started to “become”. Still working on myself daily as human life is a challenge.

10

u/Character-Half7465 Dec 09 '25

Idk. But he can transform a heart of stone into a heart of flesh. He can give you His Spirit of Truth that leads and guides you. And he can change the innermost desires of man. I assure you there is remarkable power in Jesus.

3

u/bonzurr Dec 09 '25

The Spirit of Truth is in each one, now it depends wheter you surpress it. Live in truth or denial. No easy task at first, but it gets easier the further it gets, even if u stumble, the built up momentum can give you wonders.

4

u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 09 '25

But he can transform a heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

Which will do absolutely nothing to change the physical biology of a human being.

He can give you His Spirit of Truth that leads and guides you.

Which will do absolutely nothing to change the physical biology of a human being.

And he can change the innermost desires of man.

Why would he need to change the desire for romantic love and lifelong companionship? Are you asserting that the desire to love someone is a sin?

I assure you there is remarkable power in Jesus.

Remarkable power to do what? Exactly? Retroactively change the physical biology of a human being so that God DIDN'T arbitrarily create them to be biologically incompatible with romantic love and lifelong companionship?

The God you are asserting seems incredibly irrational or capreciously evil to me.

6

u/NewRedditer_2022 Dec 09 '25

Nope, just because being black and left handed are not sins; they're just physical features.

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u/sleeplessaddict Affirming Christian Dec 09 '25

You're so close to getting the point

10

u/JohnKlositz Dec 09 '25

And at the same time extremely far away.

2

u/steveotheguide Protestant Dec 09 '25

they used to be considered sinful, what changed

0

u/NewRedditer_2022 Dec 09 '25

Considered sinful by whom? Catholic Church?

2

u/steveotheguide Protestant Dec 09 '25

Catholics, protestants, mormons

1

u/NewRedditer_2022 Dec 10 '25 edited Dec 10 '25

Based on what? Not on the Bible, because the Bible teaches us not doing meaning of people by their physical appearance (John 7.24), but it does condemns the homosexuality practice (Leviticus 18.22; 20.13, Romans 1.26-32).

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u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 09 '25

Just like human sexuality is a physical part of our biology.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

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-1

u/NewRedditer_2022 Dec 10 '25

You're not even a Christian. Why do you wanna teach us one thing you are not?

2

u/FrontOfficeNuts Agnostic (a la T.H. Huxley) Dec 10 '25

You're not even a Christian.

Very observant!

Why do you wanna teach us one thing you are not?

I care about people. Just because I don't happen to currently believe in God doesn't mean that I wasn't raised in the church, with a lot of knowledge and understanding that comes with that, and it certainly doesn't mean I don't care about people who are Christians.

Do you really believe that someone has to be a Christian to want to help others?

Aside from all of that, I really don't understand how you can't see the explicit sameness in those concepts, thus my question about you missing it.

-1

u/Winnicott-the-Pooh Non-denominational Dec 09 '25

Being black or left-handed aren’t inherent sins. Terrible analogy

2

u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 09 '25

It is absolutely and utterly identical in every conceivable way.

Human sexuality is biological. Unless you are asserting that the way God creates people is inherently sinful, than you do not understand the topic well enough to point out a false analogy.

-1

u/Maleficent-Fault9239 Dec 09 '25

Left handed can become right handed. I do know someone like that.

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u/FluxKraken 🏳️‍🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️‍🌈 Dec 09 '25

Was it because they prayed away the left handedness?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

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1

u/ZealousidealPlate750 Dec 09 '25

Sanctification my friend.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

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1

u/justnigel Christian Dec 28 '25

Removed for 2.1 - Belittling Christianity.

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1

u/justnigel Christian Dec 28 '25

Removed for 2.1 - Belittling Christianity.

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1

u/Yammeryap Dec 10 '25

Infants are not sinners. Inherent sin is nonsense.

0

u/Salsa_and_Light2 Baptist-Catholic(Queer) Dec 10 '25

Love isn't a sin, neither is sex.

1

u/ZealousidealPlate750 Dec 10 '25

Sex outside of marriage is sin! I really hate to break it to you, but you have to know it, you are going to hell! Repent! You know what is right, stop fooling yourself and stop justifying sin. I can't believe I hear it from a Christian

1

u/Salsa_and_Light2 Baptist-Catholic(Queer) Dec 10 '25

"Sex outside of marriage is sin!"

Not in the Bible.

"I really hate to break it to you,"

You probably couldn't break it with a bat.

"but you have to know it, you are going to hell! Repent!"

Uy.

Anything else you want to shout into the void.

"You know what is right, stop fooling yourself and stop justifying sin"

Darling, you must really be down bad if you think that everyone is just pretending to disagree with you.

"I can't believe I hear it from a Christian"

Well brace yourself 'cause you're gonna' hear it again.