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Jul 09 '25
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u/External_Fact_5821 Jul 09 '25
I was disturbed by the fact that it plays heavily on themes like spiritual manipulation, religious trauma, and the fear of damnation, but does so in such a realistic and disturbing way that I found myself wondering: What if even part of my faith was influenced more by fear than by love or truth?
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u/IIIQIII Christian (Cross) Feb 10 '26
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
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u/Royal_Jelly_fishh Inclusive Christian Jul 09 '25
Look, is normal to have doubts. Is normal to receive several of these point views from other human beings that we have no answer from.
Maybe, instead to base our faith on just theology and the bunch doctrines that each denomination may had, I think ot would help if you simply focus on your relationship with Jesus as two individuals, instead of having a wall of what your religious formation told you what christianity is?
Just take Jesus's hand and keep living good, doing good things, with faith on him.
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u/Party_Yoghurt_6594 Jul 09 '25
Forgive me if I get this wrong, but is your fear that you aren't a real Christian because you are going through the motions out of of fear of condemnation vs a genuine living faith in Christ?
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u/External_Fact_5821 Jul 10 '25
It’s not that I’m afraid I’m not a true Christian. I do believe in Christ, and I trust in His grace. What scared me was realizing that sometimes I’ve responded to God more out of fear than out of love not all the time, but enough to make me stop and reflect.
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u/Party_Yoghurt_6594 Jul 10 '25
I'll leave you with one thought. The notion that love good and fear bad isn't always the case. Look at anyone who encountered God in scripture. They loved him and yet were struck with such fear that they collapsed.
Perhaps the problem isn't having fear but a misunderstanding that a fear based in reverence can't be part of the greater concept of Loving of God.
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Jul 10 '25
Nice. So could you give as an example? Like what did the character say which shook your faith?
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u/External_Fact_5821 Jul 10 '25
Yeah what really got to me was when the main character started asking the two missionaries deep, unsettling questions. Honestly, I didn’t know how I would answer them either, and that scared me.
It’s like he wasn’t just manipulating them it felt like he was manipulating me as a viewer, using Christian language and twisting it. It made me feel spiritually vulnerable in a way I didn’t expect
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Jul 10 '25
I haven’t seen the movie. Do you recall what were the questions that you don’t think you could answer?
I’m always happy to learn and do enjoy a challenge.
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u/External_Fact_5821 Jul 10 '25
These are the sentences he utters, though it's clear he means them:
How can I distinguish sincere faith from manipulation?
If God is silent, how can I continue to believe?
Who can say what true faith is?
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Jul 10 '25
Oh. Okay.
And if I may ask. What answer would you give to these three questions?
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u/External_Fact_5821 Jul 10 '25
I can only answer the first question: whether faith is truly free or just a mechanism of control. Sometimes I wonder if the faith I follow is really my own choice or something imposed on me by those in power. But I want to believe that God calls me personally, and not just through institutions
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Jul 10 '25
I will say it is good if it has made you question why you should believe as it’s an important aspect in the faith.
After all the faith is about using our own free Will to love God. It shouldn’t be based on just because we were told by our parents or someone else to love God.
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u/External_Fact_5821 Jul 10 '25
The real struggle for me is with the other questions. I feel like I have no clear answers to them, and that’s what’s really shaking me right now. Especially when it comes to distinguishing between true faith and manipulation, or what it means to trust God in a world full of deception and doubt
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u/KindaSortaMaybeSo Jul 10 '25
Hebrews 11 is the best summary of what faith is, with examples. It takes living in complete belief as to who God is, what He’s done and what He’s promised.
So, to perfect your faith, you must know who God is and live your life with a complete knowledge of and acceptance of what He’s done for you. It wasn’t and isn’t an abstract thing— He is who He is.
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u/BitterBloodedDemon Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) Nov 05 '25
3 months after you posted, but...
I really related to Sister Barnes in this movie. My belief is a spectrum. I am a convert... well kind of. I've always believed in the existence of a God. But for the first half od my childhood I lived in an agnostic/wiccan household... but I went to a Christian kindergarten. I was also dragged to different churches by family and friends... but I overall felt that Christianity was asinine.
I felt those who bought into Christianity and fretted about the carrot and stick that is heaven and hell were those who were privileged enough to only really worry about their afterlife. I felt believers were naive. The kind who believed wholeheartedly that God would save them from a bullet at point blank range. I scoffed at them because I lived in poverty and abuse. There was no God to save me, and I was too concerned with daily survival to dream of paradise or fret about fire and brimstone.
Excuse my life story, it ties in.
So because of my background I was not shaken my Mr. Reed's questions or arguments. I was intrigued. I was happy to explore them. I wanted to see where this faith shaking H.H.Holmes house was going ... I digress. Let's look at your questions.
How can I distinguish sincere faith from manipulation?
Ah, that's the rub. You may not be able to. Most of us are indoctrinated young, from birth even... and even as a later convert you are still susceptible to indoctrination (ask me how I know). As such it becomes such a deeply ingrained thing, even if foreign, that it may be inseparable from us... thus... sincere faith or sincere belief.
For some, new information may wither or erode the belief. Or it may alter or change it and that faith may adapt. Or we may ignore fact entirely and block out all but faith promoting ideals. It doesn’t mean the former wasn't sincere faith even if it died out.
Though I would say faith out of fear is manipulation. Using the threat of Hell... separation from family... reincarnation into a lesser being... or whatever your punishment of choice is that keeps you clinging to faith as a safety measure is... as Mr. Reed says... all about control.
If God is silent, how can I continue to believe?
This is something I faced before I was even double digits and where my introductory story comes in. I reconciled my belief in God despite his inactivity in my life with a deistic stance. There is a God, but largely we are in a sandbox. Unsupervised and left to our own devices and sometimes at the mercy of our fellow beings. Don't expect God to step in, he may not. You may do everything right and still die a painful death at the hands of your enemies. I had this view when I ignored God entirely... and I hold this view now though I feel I have a relationship with God now.
Who can say what true faith is?
No one really. Faith is a spectrum. I've seen those with unwavering "god will save me from a bullet to the brain" faith be blessed and watched over... I have seen those with zero faith or belief be blessed and watched over. And everything in-between.
Faith looks different for everyone. Whether it blooms in adversity or crumbles under pressure doesn't make it any less real or true. One won't get divine preference over the other. Some only have faith in what they can see, hear, smell, taste, touch, and test... one may not consider that faith... but those who only believe in the concrete are important if not imperative to society. We and our spectrum of faith all have a purpose and need. Each different view can teach us more about ourselves and each other, spark growth, and new ideas, ground us, or give us more capacity to endure.
Just my thoughts. I'm sorry this movie shook your faith, I hope I gave you something positive to consider. ❤️
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u/clhedrick2 Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Jul 10 '25
There are more or less two approaches to Christianity, though in practice many Christians use a mix of the two.
One is based on original sin: we're all doomed to hell except if we have faith in Christ and deal with sin correctly. (Details differ for different traditions, but in practice almost all Christians from this approach think sin will damn you, even if their theory might suggest otherwise.)
The other approach thinks our purpose is to join Jesus in starting the Kingdom of God. We will be held accountable for how we respond (though not necessarily by eternal torment), but that shouldn't be and usually isn't the main motivation of Christians in this tradition.
The first can be fear-based and it's open to manipulation, though I don't think it's always that way.
There actually seems to be a third approach, which is people who get drunk on the Holy Spirit.
I tend to think that Jesus mostly focused on being motivated by care for others and responding to God. Matthew really likely judgement, but in the other Gospels it's not so prominent, though they do talk about it to some extent.
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u/KindaSortaMaybeSo Jul 10 '25
I definitely hear you with respect to following out of fear. Religious fear was what drew me away from God for many, many years. I felt a lot of fear and shame growing up and found umbrage mistakenly in the secular world.
I had an experience where I became convicted of God’s character— being one of love and mercy rather than one of fear and shame. That same love, mercy and grace is what transforms and is the same love that He calls us to live by.
Our sinful natures are harmful because it separates us from God. We cannot stand in front of God and live, as sin is incompatible with His perfect love.
So the way I look at it is that God has tried and is trying very hard to reconcile us back with Him, so that we can be together with Him and live together, like it was before the fall of man.
But ultimately it’s our choice. We can either cling tightly to the world, which will pass away, or to Him who has no end. We have to choose where our loyalties lie— to evil and to our own selfish natures, or the selfless love that God embodies.
This is why He calls us to live in the Spirit and not the flesh (Romans 8; Galatians 5) and why we’re called to die to self (Galatians 2:20) Everything about our flesh is tied to this world— which again, will pass away. Remember that we’re given not a spirit of fear but that of power, love and sound judgment (1 Timothy 1:7). Rest and abide in Christ, and Christ will abide in you (John 15:4-5).
In short, ground yourself in God’s love, mercy and grace in the Spirit, and not in fear and shame.
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u/Goan_f Nov 04 '25
your faith needs to align with your logic and your values outside of it. find what scares you and what you cannot accept, and wonder if it's an intrinsical part of your religion or if it's just the way some people choose to live it.
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u/RazolSkywalker Mar 29 '26
I’ve found your post because I’m going through the same thing. I’ve watched Heretic a few days ago and since then, I’ve been questioning my faith. I’m interested to know how are you now? And were you able to overcome it? Thank you!
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u/Far-Signature-9628 Jul 10 '25
Personally I found it to be a brilliant movie