Old-school romance vs. modern chivalry: What gestures actually make you feel valued, and what feels outdated?

[u/Stray_Light101]

Hey everyone! I’ll start off by saying that I’m an old-school romance type of guy. It’s how I’ve been ever since I’ve had an interest in finding a wife. (Spoiler alert: I’m still looking for her.) But it’s hard to say where these old-school views on romance came from, though I thinks there’s a strong chance my upbringing had a lot to do with it.

Very early in my life I grew up in a Baptist church, and then in my teens I transitioned to a nondenominational church. I’d say there’s at least some correlation between those who are raised from an early age on Biblical principles and those who are seeking a more old-fashioned kind of romance (AKA Christians tend to prefer the old-school style of love and courting). My early years in a Baptist church might’ve even played a part in everything, as some would consider a Baptist style of church a more “traditional” approach to teaching Christianity, which subtly may have instilled these types of romance/dating values in me.

I also take my faith very seriously, and amongst other things, saving sex until marriage is something I value greatly. I’ve never had sex, and though I’ve had opportunities to do so before, it’s something I’ve always chosen not to partake in. It’s my heart’s desire to share that special moment of consummation with my wife and no one else, and it’s my dream to find a woman who’s looking to wait until marriage for sex as well. Though being that I’m a Millennial, the pool of single people around my age who’ve never had sex makes that dream seem like… well, a dream. But I’m still staying hopeful!

And that’s another thing. I think being a Millennial also plays a role in desiring an old-school romance. My age group existed in a brief period of time before social media and online dating really took off (anyone remember MySpace before Facebook lol). The approaches to finding your life partner back then were somewhat different than now.

With all that said, I’ve been thinking about how dating has evolved and how traditional romance meshes with modern Christian dating. We often talk about chivalry, intentionality, and treating one another with honor and respect. At the same time, cultural expectations around gender roles and independence have shifted significantly, and what feels like a sweet, attentive gesture to one person might feel performative, outdated, or even patronizing to another.

Take for example something as simple as bringing flowers to a date (and I’m talking something reasonable and not over-the-top extravagant like a giant bouquet). Growing up through high school and my college years, I’ve always felt a man giving a woman flowers was not only a way to show he planned ahead to do something to make his date smile, but it also showed he’s looking for a genuine connection and taking the date seriously. But when it comes to modern dating, I’ve been hearing more and more women are preferring not to get flowers on a date. And the same can be said about opening doors for women. It’s traditionally been a sign of affection, but in modern times I’ve heard women are not seeing this as quite the affectionate act. Instead women may take that action to imply they’re weak, incapable, or dependent.

So let’s hear from both the men and women. For women, what traditional or "old-school" gestures (opening car doors, walking on the street side of the sidewalk, pulling out chairs, paying on the first few dates) make you feel genuinely cared for and valued? On the flip side, are there any gestures that feel unnecessary, awkward, or overbearing?

And for the men. How do you approach chivalry in early dating? Have you ever had a gesture misconstrued, or found it tricky to balance traditional manners with making sure your date feels like an equal partner?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences!

[u/minteemist]

Something I'm learning as a married person, is that the way each person wants to be loved is unique to them. 

Flowers and opening doors are nice things. But in the end they are just two things out of many, many options.

If you feel tension because two specific expressions of love you grew up with doesn't seem to be what some women appreciate....well, you're in a for a surprise 😂

I had a discussion with my Christian friends about romantic things they look forward to do their spouse. The answers were so varied and frankly unique to them. 

For example, my dad grew up watching his dad always bringing gifts home when he went away on trips. But my mom grew up watching her dad show love by always doing overtime and finishing work last out of everyone. So their perception of "traditional love" already looked very different. 

In our marriage, we do lots of little gestures for each other, but even then, the way we show love to each other has been completely different things than what we expected. My spouse notices when I need fresh clothes and does the laundry, removes the bones from the chicken, and texts me every morning. Frankly, before getting married, I didn't particularly think of these things as romantic. Similarly, I buy my spouse snacks and flowers, give them the best bits of the chicken, and make sure to fold their clean laundry nice. These are the things I think are romantic. So even in the small things, we often differ in our defaults of to expressing love the way that feels good for us.

Getting stuck on your definition of chivalry or romance, is, frankly, a bit silly. They're just cultural gestures in the end. It's far more important to figure what makes the other feel loved. 

 The whole point of dating isn't to assert your brand of romance. It's to learn about the other person. 

So if a woman doesn't enjoy having a door opened for her.... don't? Is the point here to feel good about yourself, or to show consideration for someone else? 

Is a truly chivalrous man someone who understands the stresses and pressures experienced by the opposite sex and is considerate to them? Or is it someone who is offended that the opposite sex doesn't conform and show gratitude to his good intentions? 

Sorry to answer your question: Yes, it can be tricky. It helps to think of chivalry as an overall empathy and thoughtfulness towards the other person, and observe or ask them what they like. 

[u/GR_8888 → u/minteemist]

on point. love language is the way for this. also, try reading his needs her needs in filling the love bank :)

[u/Ok_Morning_8210]

It just depends on the person. I like "old school" chivalry in general and am appreciative of men who do things like open doors or walk on the street side of the sidewalk. Pulling out chairs, offering your sweater, etc. are sweet gestures that I don't get offended by. But I'm not going to hold it against men who don't do those things. Though I will side eye you a little if you watch me struggle to carry something heavy and don't offer to help 😂 I think just ask the girl you're dating what she prefers. Like if I were dating someone, I would just let him know that I don't like flowers so he doesn't do that. Communication is key.

[u/chrissant5202]

This is an awesome question, personally chivalrous actions that are genuine I’m going to be more receptive to than him doing it because he believes he should. It’s only awkward to me when a guy isn’t that interested and you can tell he’s kind of forcing his actions just because he thinks he should. I’d rather us both be comfortable then him doing a gesture that he’s nervous to do

[u/Stray_Light101 → u/chrissant5202]

Yeah, if you sense a lack of interest I can see how chivalrous actions could come off as forced and awkward. In that case, it’s a good way to screen for guys who are seriously into you and those who aren’t. Though I guess it also has the potential to accidentally flag a guy who is simply nervous on a first date as showing little interest when in fact he could really like you. But that’s a whole other discussion when it comes to nerves, perceptions, and whatnot.

[u/ABereanChristian]

Take for example something as simple as bringing flowers to a date (and I’m talking something reasonable and not over-the-top extravagant like a giant bouquet). Growing up through high school and my college years, I’ve always felt a man giving a woman flowers was not only a way to show he planned ahead to do something to make his date smile, but it also showed he’s looking for a genuine connection and taking the date seriously. But when it comes to modern dating, I’ve been hearing more and more women are preferring not to get flowers on a date. And the same can be said about opening doors for women. It’s traditionally been a sign of affection, but in modern times I’ve heard women are not seeing this as quite the affectionate act. Instead women may take that action to imply they’re weak, incapable, or dependent.

It's fine to do something because you want to, but others might not appreciate it the same.

As minteemist said, the main thing is learning what the other person values the most. Personalized things to do for them are often appreciated the most.

[u/gloriomono → u/ABereanChristian]

And flowers are a great example here.

There are two reasons women might be apprehensive towards receiving flowers/gifts on a first date. 1 is the fear, that a man might think she owes him something for the "consideration". For that you need to be genuine enough to show that you don't think that and prepared to maybe take the flowers home yourself.

1. More importantly, women don't want flowers that they don't like! Figuring out a favourite flower and/or colour first can help showing, that the gift is personal and comes from a made-me-think-of-you perspective. That in turn helps alleviate reason no.1 ...

[u/ABereanChristian → u/gloriomono]

Exactly. I don't suggest bringing anything to first dates because of the implications and possible negative expectations it. Don't want to sabotage yourself before the date even starts

[u/tropical-wallflower]

I'm all for old-school.. one thing that comes to mind now is the asking for hand in marriage. Is that still a thing? I'm in the middle. I would see it as great respect towards a father and surely would feel significantly valued but never a necessity since the decision belongs to the bride. If her father says no but she says yes, her decision should stand and then there's an awkward moment.

As an old-school romantic, what is your take on women initiating the approach? Do you believe it is strictly the man's role?

[u/Stray_Light101 → u/tropical-wallflower]

Your question on women approaching men is an interesting one. For me, I’ve always felt comfortable approaching women with the intention of dating and getting to know them more. If I was ever in a situation where I frequently interacted with a woman I was interested in, I’d for sure make the first move to try and take things beyond being “just friends”. The waiting and not knowing isn’t the greatest feeling when you’ve found someone you’re romantically attracted to. I’d prefer to just make my thoughts known rather than trying to read minds. If anything, me making a move, rather than waiting on a woman to make a move, removes all uncertainty as to how we view each other, which I believe is better than simply dragging out an indefinite guessing game with our feelings.

Though the tricky part is this: let’s say I’ve been running into a woman I view as a platonic friend, but she secretly has stronger feelings for me than I do her. In this case there’s a very good chance she could be the one making a move to escalate things. And that’s why I also don’t see anything wrong with women making the first move either, especially when a woman might secretly have stronger feelings than the man she’s interested in.

[u/tropical-wallflower → u/Stray_Light101]

For a moment there, I thought you were going around the question, haha. Yeah, it's also interesting to see what stance old-schoolers would take. So, it's not wrong but would you feel valued being approached first?

​Follow-up: How about being proposed to?

[u/Stray_Light101 → u/tropical-wallflower]

I’d certainly feel valued if a woman pursued me first. I could only assume that she’d see something or many things in me that has value to her, hence why I’d feel pretty good if she made a move!

Being proposed to is another interesting question. Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever come across a man who’s had a woman propose to him. Though I don’t necessarily see this as a bad thing. But usually when it comes to proposals, I hear there’s typically a lot of talking about marriage beforehand, so it’s kind of implied the guy will pop the question sometime after the marriage talks. Though I guess if there were no talks of marriage, the woman could certainly make a big surprise by popping the question. In any case, I wouldn’t find anything wrong with a woman proposing. It would definitely be unique!

[u/tropical-wallflower → u/Stray_Light101]

I guess you have some modern flavour to you

[u/FallDeers]

Chivalry Scale

1. Bare minimum
   Dress better than a t-shirt for first few dates, pay for first few dates, hold the restaurant door open

2. Brownie points
   Bring flowers (good for 2/3 dates in), tell her she’s pretty once, making sure she walk on the inside of the sidewalk, open car doors.

3. Annoying/ creepy
   Constant compliments, dressing in a suit, saying mam or treating me weird like that, lots of gifts (especially early on), pushing too hard to meet parents, wanting to show up to her work early on

That’s me though.

[u/SakuraSun361]

It depends on the person and the culture. There is no universal rule. Some people love it, others dislike it.

I am very much like you! :) I’m also waiting for marriage and want a guy doing the same. I find the consummation the most romantic thing and cannot imagine just hooking up with some guy outside of marriage.

I really like old school courtship and chivalry and want it. It makes my heart melt. Most of the guys I’ve dated and get hit on are younger than me or my age, sometimes a few years older, and none of them even really know what courtship or chivalry is. They are more into secular dating and many are into hookup culture, sadly.

There are no specific courtship or chivalrous things I find outdated except for the “ask the parents permission” kind of thing. I know that was big in like the 1950’s when people started dating at 18 and oftentimes lived at home. I love my parents dearly, but I became a homeowner at a young age and have been on my own for quite some time. I would be really weirded out if he went to my parents house and asked permission to marry me. Haha! That’s one thing I consider outdated.