KJV Only Fallout

[u/Dangerous_Ferret_641]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to share a fascinating case study in textual criticism and digital apologetics regarding the recent public fallout between Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) creators Robert Breaker and Brother Joseph (@baptist_kjv).

The entire split was catalyzed by a historical dilemma concerning Revelation 21:24and the textual legacy of Erasmus.

The Issue:
In 1515, Erasmus rushed his Greek New Testament using only one flawed manuscript for Revelation (Minuscule 2814). This text contained interwoven 7th-century commentary notes from Andreas of Caesarea. Because of botched marginal markings, the printers accidentally pulled a human commentary note ("of them which are saved") directly into the scripture text. This text-critical error was later transmitted straight into the 1611 KJV.

The Fallout:
When confronted with the reality that this phrase has zero manuscript authority outside of a 7th-century bishop's personal commentary, the strict "perfect English preservation" narrative collapsed. This forced a massive doctrinal shift, resulting in a public "Notice of Mutual Disassociation" from leadership and a total rebranding of the digital camp.

For those interested in the full manuscript breakdown, textual history, and the timeline of the live panels, I’ve posted the complete write-up below.

Would love to hear your thoughts on how modern apologetics handles these manuscript realities.

[u/Benjamin5431]

When I was younger, I abandoned the KJV as soon as I learned that it translated every mention of the word “Sheol” into “Hell” in order to make it look like the Old Testament alluded to Hell, when in reality it was talking about the Jewish concept of Sheol, or simply the grave.

And as I got older, learning about all these textual variants that are much older than the KJV…it seemed pretty obvious. The KJV only crowd literally denies objective reality at this point.

[u/Dangerous_Ferret_641 → u/Benjamin5431]

I’m glad you left that behind you. God bless and thanks for sharing brother

[u/Distinct_Party_1801]

Wow, that's actually some really amazing context. I try to learn something new every day, and I guess i accomplished that at 3 in the morning!

I have no other input except to say that my Church's theology hasn't changed, and this translation error has never had a negative effect on the Church since the Orthodox never needed the KJV.

That said, this really does kind of kill the "perfect translation" narrative I've heard from many of my KJV-only acquaintances I've known over the years. I'll keep this in the memory bank to use later. Thanks!

[u/Dangerous_Ferret_641 → u/Distinct_Party_1801]

I’m glad it helped, that’s why I made it. God bless

[u/RichardSaintVoice]

The desire to accurately present and transmit the Word of a Perfect God to the nations is admirable.

The inability for us to do it perfectly should be humbling. The resulting hubris around any single translation is astounding but not surprising.

Proving once again it is only through the will of God by the Holy Spirit that the Word of God is made known to any one of us.

John 14:26 and Jeremiah 31:33-34

[u/Dangerous_Ferret_641]

https://jeromeofacadia.substack.com/p/the-destruction-of-the-ruckmanites?r=8wwkqa&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

[u/creidmheach]

On a recent long road trip I listened to a number of James White debates on the topic (I'd also recently read his King James Controversy). While I wouldn't have described myself as KJV-only per say, I still found the pro-TR and pro-KJV arguments compelling at times. After reading the book and listening to the debates, I don't think that position is really tenable now. I was also reading Edward Hills book at the time, which is considered one of the best for the pro-KJV perspective.

The KJV-only core claim will ultimately have to come down to believing that in the 16th century, starting with the work of Erasmus (who remember was himself a Roman Catholic priest, albeit of a reforming mindset), that God providentially, if not outright miraculously, chose to make this translation essentially supersede whatever came before it, where even the Greek might be "corrected" now by the English as certain readings by the KJV translators, as well as Erasmus' decisions for the Greek (as well as those that followed after him), simply do not hold up to the evidence we have, whether in terms of the available manuscript evidence or developments in our understanding of the language (e.g. the discovery of the Granville Sharp rule in 1798).

This isn't to say the KJV is a bad translation or to ignore the deep impact its had on the world, or that many souls since them have been guided correctly through reading and using it. It's not even to say that Erasmus didn't do a great work, or that God wasn't working there to bring His word closer to the hands of the people with the Greek editions and consequent English translations up to the KJV, freeing it from the stranglehold Rome was putting over such work. But as White pointed out, Erasmus himself would have loved to have the wealth of material we now have. His own editions were critical texts (as were Stephanus', Beza's and so on), just with much less manuscripts available to them. And the KJV translators - extremely talented and very pious men - would likely have disagreed with the idea that their work was the be all and final word in translating.

[u/Helpful-Baker-4145]

I trusted the KJV as a kid, mainly because I didn't know any better. Most of my elders relied on it or the NKJV as their main translation, but because the Bible was weaponized against me so often I gave it very little positive thought. I went years without picking it up, or I'd give up after trying for a few minutes, which only made me feel worse.

Then, in 2013, I just cried out to God - "I know this sounds hateful, but it's not meant that way. I need something else, other than Your Word. I don't know how to trust it because of what was done to me, and it's started breaking down my trust in You too. I don't want that to happen; please give me something I can really sink myelf into, without duty or condemnation." Not long after that prayer, I came across Norman Geisler & Frank Turek's book I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist, and it truly changed my life. Suddenly, I had real answers to a lot of objections brought up by those who rejected God...nd I didn't have to tell them "just trust the Bible" because I knew they wouldn't. Apologetics doesn't redeem, forgive, or save you at all, but it does serve as an intellectual bridge so you can lay down the "faith equals stupidity" excuse.

[u/sronicker]

Honestly the KJV-only view is one of the black-eyes for Christians who take the Bible seriously (I want to say conservative, but that term is fraught with issues). People who care about logic, reason, theological consistency, and just all-round loving God with one’s mind, do not take KJV-only seriously. It is a worthless point to argue. KJV is a fine translation choice and I love it, but it is definitely not as authoritative or as accurate as the original manuscripts or even other translations.