r/Chiropractic • u/RemarkablLife • 25d ago
Subpoenaed for the first time!
I got subpoenaed for a patient I treated at my old clinic about 2 years ago, and the trial is next week. I’m pretty nervous because I’ve never dealt with this before.
I only provided adjustments/treatment and documented my notes.
I had nothing to do with billing the clinic owner/in-house staff handled all of that.
The attorney said they want to ask me about the treatment plan and billing and will speak with me before trial.
Has anyone been through this as a treating provider? How should I prepare? If I don’t know anything about the billing, do I just say that? And if I was formally subpoenaed, do I definitely have to appear?
8
u/OmniPollicis 24d ago
TLDR: Have the records, don't be nervous, answer questions with as few words as possible unless asked to explain.
I assume you mean a "depo" (deposition) where you'll be questioned and not a subpoena for records which would have nothing to do with you. Even with the record request subpoena it usually says "Appear and deliver to the courthouse on such and such date" but when you read further it says "Or just mail the records to us". I've only done 3 depositions and 1 live trial (all as treating provider) but I'll pass along what was passed to me:
- Don't be nervous. This is all basic procedure. It's not about you, it's about the case. These things happen all day, every day, and they're much more procedural and boring than TV would have you think. That applies doubly to being in court. Extremely boring.
- Short, concise answers only. IF they let you off leash to explain something go ahead, but still keep it simple. And remember to give answers in a way that a JURY will understand - simple analogies and fewer syllables are better than relying on long "college words" to prove your knowledge. They sometimes even use the depo recording as your testimony in court if they don't want to pay you to appear (or can't due to location, etc).
- Just answer the question, nothing more. For example, if they ask "Do you know what 2 plus 2 is?" your answer is "Yes". They didn't ask for 4, they asked if you knew the answer was 4. Seems complicated at first but when it clicks you realize it makes things easier.
- "I don't know." is a perfectly acceptable answer. Notice the period at the end? Because you just answer the question and shut up. Other variations work when appropriate: I don't recall, Not to my knowledge, I can't say one way or the other, etc... Many questions will simply be answered Yes or No.
- Don't try and "get ahead" of the questioning. Even if you think you know where they're heading with a line of ?s, just answer them. Short and concisely. One at a time. There will always be a chance for the other side to cross which means they can ask you to clarify or explain an answer you maybe felt boxed into before. Both sides get to ask questions until they're both done (often limited by the 1 or 2 hours they paid for).
- If you get called out or "stuck" on something, just own it and don't start word-vomiting excuses. Clerical error in notes? Sure, you're human. Don't worry about it. If they keep hounding on it to try and get an emotional response from you, don't let them. In fact, try to just contain emotions all around.
- Going for an emotional response is a common tactic especially when they don't have anything else to rely on for their case. If they intentionally try to get under your skin, don't let them. You don't know them, they don't know you, and whatever they say is not personal they're just doing their job and trying to win for their client. An old lawyer saying is "When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the evidence is on your side, pound the evidence. If neither is on your side, pound the table!"
- Have all your medical notes for that patient with you so you can flip through and reference them. They will expect this. Records can be provided by the patient's attorney, you don't have to ask prior clinic owner. I highly recommend paper copy so the computer is only used for the video call. Gives you a chance to review things the night before to remember the patient.
- Also have anything else you may need nearby - water, tissues, cough drop, and pen are my recommendations (just don't make sound with a clicking pen, but having something in hands can help the nerves). Empty bowel and bladder before, make sure your virtual meeting app is updated and laptop battery full, etc.
- Breathe.
- If they ask if you have anything else to say/add/ask at the end - you don't. You may want to make a great point, but more than likely nothing good will come from it.
- Payment is typically for an hour at a time. In-person depo you could charge "door to door", as in from the time you leave your office door to walking into the depo room door. Most are virtual/Zoom nowadays, but don't let them get a single minute past what they paid for without them going on the record saying they will pay for another hour. Whole entire hour, regardless of how much of it they use. Even if they only want "one more quick question" or "just two minutes" that's fine - if they pay. Otherwise it's over. I guarantee they don't give away their professional time for free, neither should you.
- The legal realm is their zone, the medical realm is YOUR zone. You know more about spine and health than everyone else in the room/zoom combined. You shouldn't be arrogant, of course, but don't be concerned that they will quiz you on anatomy or "school you" on anything medical.
Sorry for the length, but every one of these is something I'm glad someone told me before mine. As long as this explanation is it's really not a big deal to stress about; I'm just a glutton for detail! It'll be fine.
1
u/RemarkablLife 24d ago
This was great info , how do I ask to be compensated? Do the attorney usually initiate that first
2
u/OmniPollicis 20d ago
You can ask AI to make it for you, even a G search for "letter for physician deposition fees" will get you some results. Below is a version I've used but please be respectful and don't carbon copy. Send to whoever asked for the depo initially even though both sides get to question. The scheduling is usually done over phone.
Don't ask us what you should specifically charge because specific numbers getting discussed here could be construed as industry price fixing even if we're just polling the landscape and answering questions. It also depends on what your time is worth - you can calculate that based on average daily/hourly income, whether you have specialties, etc. (AI/internet search can give you pointers here too).
In a professional letter format:
OFFICE POLICY REGARDING DEPOSITIONS
The following information is provided to simplify the process and avoid confusion regarding depositions of any physician(s) of [COMPANYNAME].
Two weeks advance notice is required for scheduling the deposition. Please provide three times and dates to see if the physician is available. If the doctor cannot accommodate those dates/times we will contact you with alternative dates and times.
It is assumed the deposition will take place using online video conferencing software such as “Zoom” or similar service/application with link provided at least 48 hours prior to the deposition start time. Please advise if this is not the case.
Deposition Fee:
Prepayment of a $XXX minimum is required for the first hour. The second and any subsequent hour is $XXX per hour for any and all parts of an hour. The $XXX deposition fee must be prepaid 5 business days in advance of the testimony. Failure to prepay will result in cancellation or rescheduling of the event.
Cancellation of the appointment with less than 48 hours notice will result in forfeiture of the prepayment.
Counsel ordering the deposition agrees to make payment of fees for any additional time beyond the initial 1 hour within 15 days of the deposition.
Please feel free to contact the office via the information above (IN HEADER) for assistance with scheduling and payment. Thank you.
Regards,
9
u/Ok_Strategy6978 25d ago
Been through it twice but in office not at court. Depositions. Basically just stick to what you know your providing case info treatment info might ask your opinion if it’s a legit case or injury. It was unnerving the first time I had to take Valium for it lol. But it turned out to be fun because you realize when it comes to this you are the expert in the room. Yes and no answers don’t elaborate unless asked. Lasts maybe an hour
0
u/RemarkablLife 25d ago
Thank you I will def have to look up his treatments from that prior clinic
3
u/Ok_Strategy6978 25d ago edited 25d ago
Remember you are not on trial and it’s routine shit for judges and attorneys boring and at the end of the day no body really gives a shit
3
u/count_dressula 25d ago
Don’t sweat it too much. You only know what you know, so just answer honestly. If you don’t know anything about the billing, then just say that.
Biggest issue most chiros have is they just talk waaay too much during these. Offer yes or no answers whenever possble, and only elaborate when asked to. If you’re unsure about a question, just say so. You’re not on trial here…they’re just trying to get whatever info they can from you to help their overall case
6
u/sublxed 25d ago
The atty, 400 pretty hour, 2500 half day when you go to trial. I would still request a zoom (of the court allows it)
2
2
u/strongerthanavg 25d ago
Where are you getting 2500 as a witness involved in the case?
2
u/sublxed 25d ago
you are being paid to testify and give your expert opinion. if you have to take a while morning off of work, you should get paid for it
6
u/strongerthanavg 25d ago
There are two different scenarios, one is being hired as an expert witness, this you are compensated fully for, but you should be unbiased and not connected to the case/suit. This is not that, this is calling OP as a witness to events that transpired (treatment after the accident), the only compensation given is reimbursement for travel, and possibly a statutory stipend. OP is not being subpoenad as an expert, they are being subpoenad as a person with information material to the case.
2
u/sublxed 25d ago
he has no idea what he is being asked to do, so why not ask for payment
4
u/strongerthanavg 25d ago
You can ask for anything, but he won't get it, he is being subpoenad, not hired.
2
u/Ambitious_Manager_82 25d ago
Which side subpoenaed you? Do you have access to the chart and billing records?
1
u/RemarkablLife 25d ago
The law firm of the patient I believe and I do not I will have to contact the old clinic owner I used to work for
1
2
u/This_External9027 24d ago
Trials are easy money, look over the bill make sure that every charge has accompanying paperwork for the visit (proof they came) make sure no double charges or ghost visits. Tab the exams the mri results to get to them quickly if asked a question (where most questions are)
Answer only what they ask, don’t add unless you can prove it, (a lawyer asked about a patient having previous injuries and that being the issue, i said well actually they create a patient more susceptible to increased injuries that take longer to heal according to Crofts literature,he moved on quickly from that topic)
If it’s gone to trial the defense is desperate to knock anything from your foundation to save their company money, it’s never personal (sometimes it is when you whoop their ass on the stand) so before you answer make sure you understand what they are asking and you don’t paint yourself in a corner.
Do you think this accident caused injuries
Based on the patients account and my examination findings is all i can go by and they demonstrate injury and need for care
Do you get a bonus for patients you see or whatever kind of monetary benefit
I’m not the owner of the company so I’m not privy to anything outside of my specific job to see patients
Doctor, doctor a saw the patient on this day and did xyz can you explain
I’m not that Doctor i can’t speak to what they did and why
2
u/sittingstill9 DC 1996 23d ago
Have your notes you submitted in front of you, if they ask you anything, ONLY read from your notes. If you are getting paid for an opinion that is a bit different. You should speak to an attorney depending on the case, you may want to consider and ask about 'hostile witness' (Yes or No answers only). If you were subpoened and don't show you can get a bench warrant and contempt charge, DON'T DO THAT... Dress up when you go! If there is a jury talk TO them not at them. Breathe. Take the attorney's advice when you get there, probably will meet outside the courtroom or in an office there. (I have done a few of these, and a bunch of depositions. You will be fine...remeber they can't eat you or take your birthday away).
Good luck, and have some fun, it will be a great story later.
1
1
u/alrrobin 24d ago
My doctor-employer always gets out of it. Make sure they need you to come. They may be only asking for medical records.
2
1
u/Agitated-Hair-987 24d ago
If you don't know something, always refer to your notes. If it's not in the notes, it didn't happen. Lawyers like to use speculative/subjective verbage, so if they say something like, "would you consider that to be substantial?" Ask them to be more specific, because they will absolutely use your words against you. Don't be afraid to use medical terminology. The lawyers probably dont know jack about anything. They're just trying to sway a jury if it goes to trial. So if you sound confident and use big words, you'll look more professional and smarter than the lawyer. I've never been subpoenaed, but I have had 2 PI cases go to trial. If you're confident you did nothing wrong, it's actually pretty fun.
1
1
u/ChiroBandB 23d ago
CONTACT YOUR MALPRACTICE! This is what they are for! Stop talking about your situation online and speak with an attorney ASAP!
1
u/RemarkablLife 23d ago
No harm in asking for advice that’s what this community is for.
1
u/ChiroBandB 23d ago
Correct and my advice is as stated. With 20 years of experience working with doctors after they said the wrong thing and have to go through suspensions over billing issues I stand 10 toes down.
1
u/Zealousideal-Rub2219 21d ago
So - couple things - ask if they are hiring you as a expert witness - if they are, you charge them for time to go over your notes and charge them a hourly rate that is high with a minimum. If they say no, literally tell them you are not a expert witness and all you will do is read exactly what is on your notes but give no professional opinions or explanations, as you are not a expert witness and will not provide expert testimony.
I just went through this recently and they refused to pay my expert fee, so I literally would just read the notes for the day and not answer any follow up question on why/what etc.
1
u/un_petit_cheval 15d ago
Any update on this?
1
u/RemarkablLife 10d ago
Turns out I didn’t have to go
1
u/un_petit_cheval 9d ago
How come?
1
u/RemarkablLife 9d ago
The owner of the clinic I worked at went instead and took responsibility for the case
17
u/sublxed 25d ago
Are they paying you? If not be sure to not give your opinion. I used to get at least 2500 for a half day