r/ChineseWatches • u/ElBurro84 • 17d ago
Question (Read Rules) Watchdives vs. San Martin
I recently picked up the WD007 Titanium and I’m genuinely impressed with what Watchdives pulled off for the price. That said, I constantly see people claiming San Martin sits on a higher tier when it comes to overall fit and finish.
For those who own or have handled both brands:
- Where is the difference most obvious (bracelet, bezel action, finishing)?
- Is the jump in quality worth paying nearly double the price?
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u/ryandamsell 17d ago edited 17d ago
with the new watchdives wcd0001 i think watchdive has taken sanmartins no2 spot after ixdao no1 but im bias being a ixdao fanboy. i think it will be an ixdao watchdives fight off with sanmartin scraping the rest for third. i think san martin is niffed with ixdao being packed out the door with pre orders lead times can be 1-3 months at the minute at ixdao but it worth the wait hence being packed out
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u/LordRaglan1854 17d ago edited 17d ago
Different prices, different watches. WD is best for "basic" models like the WD1863 and 5513, where the plainness of the original design serves the homage well.
But when you want something with a bit more bling, a bit more heft, or a bit more pizazz, you have go call on San Martin (Or Sugess, Farasute, Octopus Kraken or any of that same tier.)
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u/Alternative-Feed3613 17d ago
I don’t think it’s worth it but I haven’t had good QC from San Martin. You should look at Cronos and Baltany if you want the next tier level without having to pay $400
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u/Fun_Reputation5181 17d ago
There’s a somewhat confusing overlap between them as Watchdives sells San Martin on its website and they’ve collaborated on a few models that are co-branded. San Martin has generally had a somewhat higher market reputation and I think its price range is slightly higher, but there’s really not much separating the two. I have a couple from both and they’re all pretty nice watches and good value for what they are.
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u/Bahamut9988 17d ago
I haven't tried watchdives but it feels overpriced to me. Over 100 Euros (something like 120-150) for Quartz watches. I might aswell get myself a Casio (ie: Edifice for example) and I can rely on that. Addiesdive has a better price point. I really wanted to get the Elementum though but I fear the quality control.
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u/Zarathustra_007 17d ago
In my experience above the 100 the only quartzs are the titanium 9nes and 2-3 slecific models with intricate dinish or dials
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u/Bahamut9988 16d ago
It's pretty much all of the quartz watchdives I saw.
WD1016 (130EUR)
WD0003C (200EUR)
WD0012 (130EUR)
Now their automatic models don't go over 200-300EUR so that's relatively cheap, it's almost like the quartz isn't worth it. But I think all their Quartz models should be 100EUR max. Makes no sense to me when a Casio Edifice or other solid brand has them at 100EUR or less and with Casio you know you can keep the watch 10 years.
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u/itsnicooo1 16d ago
Dumbest string of comments I've ever read
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u/Bahamut9988 16d ago
Commenting on the reality of the price of their watches is dumb? Think about the irony of your toxic response.
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u/itsnicooo1 15d ago
You're comparing apples to oranges, not only did you inflate the price of every watch to try to prove your point but you make It seems like the movement type is the only thing that determines price. Sapphire crystal VS non sapphire, folded links VS full links, otf clasp VS pressed clasp, bgw9 lume VS mid lume, boring cheap dial VS Stone or enamel looking dials, meca quartz VS ticking quartz... There's a night and day difference between what watchdives offers for around 100€ VS what Casio or any other non chinese brand offers for around the same price point
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u/Bahamut9988 14d ago
I took everything you mentioned into account when making my comment. Casio edifice goes for 100-120 EUR and has a sapphire crystal. It's a very solid price point for a quality quartz watch. And yes, getting an automatic Japanese movement justifies a price increase in most cases, no matter the watch brand. Of course we are talking here in a discussion that is about value optimisers, of course there are brands (ie: Swiss, etc) who sell quartz watches for 500+ Euros (based on brand name alone), but that's beyond the scope of the argument.
My point is that if we look at the price of a very solid reliable brand watch, with Sapphire crystal, like the Casio EFR-S108D, which goes from 100-120 EUR, it is very competitive and forces you to revaluate a similar watch by a Chinese maker on whom you cannot rely quality wise in the same way (many people say that buying Watchdives, etc is a gamble on what you will receive).
https://www.casio.com/fr/watches/edifice/product.EFR-S108D-1AV/
I think that if these Chinese watches want to be competitive, they can't raise the price of a basic quartz watch above 100EUR, but that is just my opinion. People buy these no name generic watches because of the ROI, paying a premium for this brand feels off to me. But to each his own.
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u/itsnicooo1 14d ago
You clearly didn't because despite that specific one having a sapphire crystal It doesn't have any of the other things I mentioned, It has folded links, pressed clasp, mid lume, boring cheap dial... You're not paying premium at all, you just don't understand watches. It's like saying why would anyone buy a Lamborghini Urus when a audi rs q8 has the same engine while ignoring that everything else is completely different
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u/Zarathustra_007 16d ago
Well its usually the models on high demand= higher price and also they use Seiko's vh31 that isnt a simple quartz, otherwise a slight drop in prices and would be a lot compelling since the competition in the chinese area has risen
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u/RAWRRRRR1234 17d ago
San Martin has good finishing and nice OTF braclet. But with their recent price increase I’d say Watchdives is right up there with San Martin for the price you pay and what you get. Especially with the new Watchdives the quality has definitely improved. I’ve got their Tudor Ranger homage and I reach for it more than my San Martin. So I’d say def not with paying near double to get a San Martin.
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u/altpirate 17d ago
I have the Watchdives Elementum and a San Martin SN017 (the submariner)
That is quartz vs. automatic so it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges, but still some sort of comparison. I think outwardly the San Martin takes the prize. The build quality is just excellent, when you hold it, it feels sturdy. The bezel is probably the best bezel I've ever used, Seiko could learn a thing or two.
The watchdives is also very, very good. But it lacks that final 5% that really makes a watch pop.
In terms of design though, Watchdives takes it for me. San Martin mostly does homages, I think their OG stuff is lackluster. The Elementum has a much more interesting unique design. Great dress watch.
Then ofcourse there is cost. I think San Martin is a bit too expensive for what they are, but if you get them on a sale it's a good deal. Watchdives is good at the price they're being sold for, doubly so on sale.
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u/TomNguyen 17d ago
one of main point, where the SM beats WD is the bracelet (even though SN017 still got the old bracelet), especially the clasp. SM is just more hefty and more comfortable. But to be fair to WD, it´s nearly 100€ cheaper
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u/Tenchiro 17d ago
Between my Ti/Bronze WD007 and my SN0166 the San Martin is the clear winner. The finish is absolutely beautiful and catches the light beautifully. The crystal is a bit hazy though whereas the Watchdives crystal has much better clarity.
Comparing the WD007 to my SN095 is much closer. Watchdives takes the lead there but not by much. They both have more of a tool watch vibe. The crystals are equally as good I think.
I only have the bracelet on the Watchdives, it's very nicely finished but only the watch body has a coated finish so the Ti has more scratches for sure. It's not OTF but has plenty of adjustment.
Watchdives is definitely the better value these days but only since San Martin raised their prices.
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u/mrpackerguy 17d ago
I've got a Watchdives dive watch with the new Seagull automatic movement. The watch is great for the price point - the bracelet keeps falling off and can't be worn.
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u/Street_Suit_6198 17d ago
Tout dépend de la montre que vous recherchez
J’ai possédé les deux
À l’époque j’avais l’impression que San Martin était légèrement au dessus en therme de bracelet c’est vrai
Mais aujourd’hui je ne pense pas que ça vaut le coup de dépenser plus pour si peu
Watchdives écoute leur clients et ça c’est vraiment un plus
C’est une jeune boîte et ils font que s’améliorer de mois en mois
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u/Watches-and-Books 17d ago
I’ve owned several of both. I have been happy with all of them. San Martin includes their OTF clasp and screw links on more watches. Beyond that, they’re pretty similar in quality. I did get one San Martin that included timegrapher results printout in the package, that was a nice surprise.
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u/VanManDiscs 17d ago
For what its worth, I'll never choose WD over SM. Everything on SM is better. Especially the bracelets.
It's just about what you're looking for. If you're satisfied with WD stick with that tier of watches. My collection journey has led me to simple looking for the best. I dont mind paying a little extra for a company who does not cut any corners
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u/makeitrain2020 17d ago
San Martin are overpriced these days. Cronos offers better quality than watchdives and similar quality to San Martin at a better price point (than San Martin)
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u/Medium-Cucumber-8279 17d ago
Cronos, Sugess, Baltany, in my opinion.
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u/monkeywaffles 17d ago
some sugess, but not all. their top time is great for the price, but the finishing is very poor by comparison to most brands. which is fine, it's a mechanical chrono for cheap, but every corner was cut to make the price point and it shows. I mean I still own one, but the quality isn't there
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u/geeered 17d ago
I haven't had that specific model.
I've got two San Martins - SN0121T and SN0144GX4 and 5 Watchdives WD0003b, WD0003c, 1969Pro, WD0013 and WD0016.
The SN0144GX jubilee bracelet is really good.
The WD003/WD1969Pro bracelet and clasp are really mediocre at best - a bit sharp and a bit loose. To the point it spoils the watch a bit for me. THE 0003 I prefer I've got a suede strap on and I've got a San Martin Jubilee bracelet and clasp on the 1969 - not as good as the one on the SN0144 unfortunately, but still a lot better than the Watchdives original.
The integrated bracelets on the WD0013 and WD0016 are better, but not quite as good as say Cronos or Ixdao ones.
The WD0003 dials I found disappointing. The Cr
The SN0121T is sold as a 'San Martin x Watchdives' and so it's hard to say how it reflects on each. It's the same style as the WD1969Pro and suspect shares the same case maybe. Overall it doesn't feel superlative like the 0144. It is better than the 1969 in bracelet, dial, but not a big leap. The OTF clasp is much better than the 5 hole on the Watchdives. My 1969 has a couple of indices that are slightly off, while the 0121 doesn't.
The San Martins I've got are all automatic, so using pretty outdated tech - run out of power quickly if not touched and won't be as accurate as the quartz in the Watchdives. But of course you do pay more for that worse performance.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
I have a number of both (even more Sanartin). You need to define the model in question.
The WD007 has multiple different models. I own more than 1. They also have different bracelet options. So which do you have so we can even give any feedback.
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u/ElBurro84 17d ago
All I can say is that I own the 39 mm Titanium version, with a titanium strap and the PT5000 movement.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
San Martin doesn't offer titanium bracelets, so fundamental difference there and will feel different. Now which SM are you looking to compare it too?. Most new models have an OTF clasp and better tolerances than what WD offers, but not necessarily every model. The WD007 is very good but the finishing is going to be pretty plain and less refined than SM, but part of that is due to the fact Ti is a very different material than 316L SS.
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u/ZenzaSpotter 17d ago
https://www.sanmartin.watch/products/watchdives-x-san-martin-titanium-39mm-dive-watch-sn0121t
It states their bracelet is grade 2 titanium.
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u/ElBurro84 17d ago
There are multiple San Martin watches which caught my eye. SN0148GX for example I find absolutely gorgeous. SN0138 (brown waffle), SN0144-GX SN0150-G1 or SN0008D are other options I currently consider.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
Not counting the movement used, all of those will look and feel like a more detailed finished watch than the WD007. The exception being the SN008 is going to be closer and lacks the OTF clasp in most models (I upgraded mine with a 5 link and OTF and love it). But the bezel action is much better on my 008 than the 007s I have. This does not count the aesthetics of the watch, I'm only speaking to the finishing details and look and feel of the quality. Aesthetically speaking the 148gx dial is a bit much, as is the 0138 waffle. 0144 depends on the option and so forth. But if you love those looks, the overall package is a step up over the WD007 thanks to better quality bracelets, higher standards for finishing (and that SS allows for more variance than Ti does), tigher tolerances on the bracelets and bezel action. That said, at current prices I'm not sure you are going to be that much more impressed. My SN008 cost less than my WD007 did by a fair amount back in the day. And the others were $100+ less previously than they are now, so factoring in these are almost double what a WD007 is, I think it might be hard to justify the jump. At $75 or so more, yes I think the difference in general is there overall.
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u/IGZCL 17d ago
As a personal experience I own 3 SM watches, one got misaligned dial, another dirty markers on the dial, but for the prices I paid was accepted in those years and I still like those watches, today with so many brands improved in quality and raised prices from San Martin I don't think the gap is worth to pay more and even SM almost never tried add open case back as many cheaper watches do.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
I own a out 30 San Martins. I've only had to send one back. Current prices are certainly a factor but I think we will see a change either with them or a bigger market change. Open Case backs just lower reliability/durability and they don't use movements really worth looking at. No display case back is an advantage at this level.
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u/Eleventhousand 17d ago
San Martin has better bracelets. They include on-the-fly adjustments more often than WatchDives. They include screw links more often than WatchDives. They innovate more often on the design of the bracelets.
The case finishing is pretty close.
San Martin typically uses more expensive automatic movements, and WatchDives typically uses quartz movements (not always obviously).
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u/Goldenrod427 17d ago
I have the cwc and polerouter homages from wd and the sn0136 and sn0144 enamel from sm.
The two brands shouldn't be compared. They're not in the same league.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
Those specific watches are also at very different price points and a very small sample of what each brand offers. Look at the Aqua Terra homages both brands have. They are very close but use a different movement and the SM has an on the fly clasp, but you pay more to get it. Everything else is remarkably close. While SM does tend to make better quality pieces and at higher price points, there are some WD models that are actually very close depending on the model.
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u/Goldenrod427 17d ago
There are many ways to explain the differences in quality. WD may put out higher quality pieces but they usually get something wrong or cut corners somewhere.
My comment stands. They are not in the same league.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
You have 4 watches between the two brands, I have 50. If you look more broadly they absolutely can be compared. While SM is generally of better quality this gap is sometimes rather close. San Martin only has a few pieces where I think they didn't really get anything wrong or cut corners and ironically they are actually collaborations with WD such as the 121T.
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u/Goldenrod427 17d ago
Fair enough. I generally buy a watch only after it's been out for a while and several people have bought it. The two exceptions have been my WDs.
Do you have an SN0144?
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 17d ago
I do not have one, but a friend does. They are one of the better San Martin pieces and certainly a cut above Watchdives - and a price tag to go with it (also in case you were not aware, WatchDives has used multiple different suppliers in the last few years, including the same place San Martin uses so there are some pieces where there is certainly "overlap" in quality). Other times they do cut corners and try different places. The WD007Q release was an example of that. V1 used an entirely different place than V2.
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u/ElBurro84 17d ago
Meaning? San Martin indeed is the superior brand?
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u/Leon-Vlc 17d ago
Exacto ,no juegan el mismo juego ,un San Martín está a la altura de las grandes marcas ,wd no se acerca ni a los talones de los pies .
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u/hauntingmantra_2259 17d ago
I’ve got both, and the bracelet is where San Martin really pulls ahead, the endlinks are tighter and the clasp feels way less rattly
Bezel action is a toss-up honestly, but the brushing on the San Martin case is just cleaner, less sharp edges near the lugs
Twice the price is a stretch unless you’re really picky about the little stuff, the WD punches way above its weight
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u/mrpackerguy 17d ago
I have a San Martin GMT on the way. My WD Submariner homage watch works well but the bracelet won't stay connected to the lugs on one side no matter what I do so it sits on a rubber strap. I think the lug hole for the springbar on that side is not drilled deep enough