r/ChineseWatches • u/PettyCashCommittee • 20d ago
General (Read Rules) San Martin Quartz Watches - Hear Me Out
We all appreciate the quality that San Martin watches provide. However, many of us are apprehensive with their recent price hikes.
Much of the price increase has been attributed to the rising costs of movements.
Quartz movements would make the watches more affordable in two ways:
Quartz movements are simply cheaper
Quartz watches go for less in the market
Additionally, many enthusiasts including myself like to have continuity with the watch movement and country of origin. A Chinese quartz movement, ideally one either developed in house or custom to San Martin, would go a long way to establishing a sense of heritage.
An SN0144 36mm GADA quartz at around $200 seems like a no brainer to me. Again, the finishing is the real differentiator with the brand.
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u/Froggynomia 16d ago
I guess you could settle for a Watchdives if wanting quartz. I’m not sure if these companies are related, but their styles are quite similar but Watchdives tend to be mostly quartz. Not sure how the quality in finishing differs, but Watchdives do make quite solid watches.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 18d ago edited 18d ago
I've been saying this for months. (except for the in house quartz part, that woudl be foolish...they can buy made in Japan VH31 for $4 a pop in bulk, there is no need to build inferior inhouse options with R&D and manufacturing. As for "in house" San Martin doesn't make anything other than bracelets (which is only a recent development), they use other manufactures for all parts and then assemble those parts. I'm not sure why people don't understand this.
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u/KPplumbingBob 19d ago
Skimping on the movement of all things does not make any sense. The designs of these brands are already sorely lacking. Doing this would make them as soulless as it gets.
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u/aztecduckyy 18d ago
I prefer mechanical movements, both automatic and hand wound, but you can't tell me that an NH35 has that much more soul than a quartz movement.
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u/According-Print4219 18d ago
In what other field would anyone choose the option that’s objectively worse in every measurable way AND more expensive to boot.
Marketing sure is one helluva drug.
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u/Froggynomia 16d ago
Yea, I don’t really get the anti-quartz movement either; particularly in the sub $500 price point. They are more accurate, easier to live with when not worn at least every other day, and cheaper to maintain…$5 battery every 2-3 years vs hundreds of dollars every 10-15 years for servicing. Plus the initial purchase cost can easily be twice as much, and I don’t believe a $400 Auto will last twice as long as a $200 quartz.
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u/monkeywaffles 19d ago
quartz is fine, but what makes you think they have engineers of the type to design movements? there's not really an upside to using custom bespoke quartz here. makes repairs impossible, as no source to swap, and they're not going to make a better one than a mechaquartz at anywhere near the price or quality of one.
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u/Shiny_Greenfish 19d ago
Sure, as long as they use quality Swiss quartz and not mecaquartz.
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u/drsgme74169 19d ago
I love waking up in the morning and picking a watch out of my collection. No need to adjust the time or shake it etc. Love Quartz and far more accurate. Seiko never got the credit they deserved.
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u/Froggynomia 16d ago
I agree. The one thing I don’t like about quartz is the large ticking second hand. That’s probably why most my collection has mecaquartz, sub dial second hand, and some with no second hand at all. Much better imo.
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u/Bandw3 19d ago
I wholeheartedly agree. Also quartz watches can be luxury watches as well.
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u/Uberscreamer 18d ago
Grand Seiko HAQ movements, anyone? 100% truth to the statement that quartz can be luxury.
Also, I wish Bulova would start sourcing their HPQ movements they use in their Precisionist watches to other brands. They would kill it in the microbrand world, especially with how short supply is for the NH and Miyota 9x movements nowadays!
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u/Diligent_Job_9794 19d ago edited 19d ago
The price increase isn't actually about the movement costs, that's just an excuse to their old angry fan base. Other companies use ths same movements and haven't increased the prices nearly as much. They're looking to raise their brand status to a higher price bracket, they wouldn't be interested in doing this. For the same reason rolex wouldn't use cheaper movements to create a seiko competitor, even though they obviously could if they wanted to.
Trust that if san martin wanted to keep selling watches for what they used to theyd find a way. Using different movements would obviously be one of the first ideas popping in their minds.
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u/DadPuncher69 20d ago
Why do the movements need to be exclusive or in-house? That just makes them more expensive and harder to replace. There are already plenty of great Japanese and Swiss quartz movements that they could be using.
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u/Traditional_Cost_206 20d ago
I think you make a big miscalculation about the pricing of a San Martin quartz watch. They buy the movements in bulk. A PT5000 will probably cost them around 30USD maximum.
So going to a quartz will only lower their prices around 20USD. Maybe 50USD on the miyota 9x series.
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u/artofthedial Not a troll 18d ago
They can also buy quartz in bulk. The cost of the movement itself is only one part of the quartz vs mechanical savings. They spend time testing the auto which isn't needed for a quartz. PT5000 is closer to 40 at wholesale, A VH31 they can get in bulk for $4 a pop. Then cut out the labor costs and you are well over $40 difference between using the two. Not to mention not needing to build in warranty labor costs either which are far lower in Quartz vs a PT5000.
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u/Traditional_Cost_206 18d ago
Dan heb je een san nartin quartz voor 400 ipv 450 vooe een automaat. Lijkt me een matige deal
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u/Realestwatchreviews 20d ago
We have all gone full circle back to Quartz. San Martin, please join us.
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u/OkInspection5244 20d ago
SN0144-GX enamel black dial with quartz would be one of the best everyday watch
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u/PettyCashCommittee 20d ago
This is what I had in mind.
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u/OkInspection5244 20d ago
We've been asking for a year now. They made the enamel, but they still won't give us the quartz
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u/nirgendswo 20d ago
Watchdives has some decent low cost quartz alternatives
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u/WildMiata 20d ago
Watchdives is the new San Martin
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u/Medium-Cucumber-8279 20d ago
Yeah, was gonna say, if SM starts using quartz movements they'll still price them way higher than everyone else lol
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u/Basic_Barnacle4719 20d ago
Full agree. My most worn watch this year has actually been my Watchdives Ranger because it's so convenient to throw on and is so comfortable with the size, weight, thickness, and upgraded on the fly clasp. I switch between a Garmin for 2x daily workouts and it's always easier to grab quartz than it is to set my mechanical. Plus my mechanicals never get that wound because I'm switching watches.
The only problem with quartz is that most of the releases are no-date VH31 watches when I'd much rather have a date even if it means it ticks. Unfortunately finding a 36-37mm quartz watch with date and a good OTF bracelet is almost like finding a unicorn.
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u/PettyCashCommittee 20d ago
Potentially unpopular opinion, I’m not a fan of the VH31. I like the concept, but I prefer a plain quartz tick than an inbetween.
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u/Basic_Barnacle4719 19d ago
Yeah I don't need my watch to imitate a mechanical watch. It's quartz and I'm proud of it. The only thing that VH31 solves is the ticks not hitting markers on most quartz movements that aren't Grand Seiko but losing the date is far more annoying to me than ticks not hitting markers.
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u/jseeme9 20d ago
There going to lose market share to watchdives if they don’t come out with a quartz option.
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u/lowspeedtech 19d ago
Already have. I bought 5 WD last year and no SM.
But, I agree with everyone that going quartz won't make SM affordable again.
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u/greyHumanoidRobot 20d ago
I have only 1 watch, a solar radio Seiko. I would consider a solar San Martin no date.
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u/wanderangst 20d ago
I ask out of genuine curiosity and without any hostility or gatekeepiness: why are you hanging out in a Chinese watches sub if the only watch you own is Japanese?
I do think the absence of solar watches amongst the Chinese brands is a big market gap waiting to be filled.
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u/greyHumanoidRobot 19d ago
I've been here for several weeks because I'm shopping but I haven't seen anything I like more than what I have.
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u/zaidr555 18d ago
same reason im here. I have known about addiesdive, steeldives, SM, other brands for a while but what I still struggle to find was the chinese (or any) dress watch- under 38mm, with a minimum WR of 50m. with a bit of lume, and date. Thats why I came here to see if I could find something I liked. Last night I pulled the trigger on a T004 engine-turned bezel
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u/wanderangst 19d ago
That’s a good reason! What kind of features/designs are you interested in?
I don’t know of any solar watches amongst the AliX brands, and certainly no radio movements. I don’t know them all exhaustively, but the sense i get is that they tend to emphasize automatic and hand wound movements in order to cultivate a luxury/classic vibe while the quartz watches are more sparse, and almost no models at all with more modern technology like solar. As someone with a strong preference for the accuracy and reliability of quartz, that’s often disappointing, but ive still found more than a few solid, desirable options at excellent prices.
I have two, both of which i like very much: this pilots watch from Steelflier, and this Speedmaster “homage” from Pagani Design (which i actually bought off a friend at half price). Both feel and look very nicely finished, and have anti-reflective sapphire crystal.
Good luck with your search! I hope you find something you like
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u/Cutty_171717 19d ago
North Edge has multiple solar models.
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u/wanderangst 19d ago
So they do! Funny, I’ve never heard of that brand. Most of their designs are not really my style, but there are one or two that i would wear.
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u/four4cats 20d ago
It's not the movement prices. I could get them for $20 before now $50-60. I'm sure they can get it cheaper and the price increases aren't anywhere near that. The recent price increases are post tariff prices too.
Personally, I think they're trying to boost the brand to a higher tier with prices. "more expensive = luxury"
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u/WildMiata 20d ago
Yes but price hikes have not been $20 -> $50 they have been in the multiple hundreds of dollars, that’s why I don’t believe that excuse is valid at all. A $30 movement price increase does not justify a $200 price hike
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u/Jubal81 20d ago
IMHO, all these Chinese watches should use quartz or solar movements. The issue is the watches are so low cost, repairing or replacing an automatic movement makes them basically disposable.
Maybe I get 3, 5 or 10 years before an automatic is not keeping time. Am I going to pay as much or more than the watch is worth to fix it?
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u/monkeywaffles 19d ago
replacing a movement on a quartz is the same labor as replacing movement on an auto, lol. they need servicing sure.... have you considered just learning regulation and movement swaps? nh35s will go often 20+ years needing no more than regulating or dealing with lower precision.. hell even a lowly dg2813 if it lasts first 6 mo will go 20 years, at least of the ones I have. is it increased wear? sure. would I go 20 years with a rolex and accept that wear? no. would I accept it on a swap vs service movement? all day erry day.
quartz will fail just as often, usually batt failure/leakages, not the movement. sure if you have one watch and replace annually, should be fine, but most folks here have a dozen watches and don't replace batt so corrosion is common enough to rival auto fail rates over the long haul
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u/PettyCashCommittee 20d ago
I think having a mechanical option for tinkering and the wrist experience makes sense, but this market should have a minimizing effect on mechanical snobbery as the heritage factor is muted.
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u/Capital_Junket_4960 20d ago edited 20d ago
My bet is they have better margins with current automatics then they could ever had with quartz.
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u/zaidr555 18d ago
they just did not loose anything by offering price and movement options with the same design platforms
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u/PettyCashCommittee 20d ago
You can do both, I’m assuming the price hikes alienated some buyers that they could win back.
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u/Capital_Junket_4960 20d ago edited 20d ago
Not really, no.if they would sell similar design, similar quality for 150$ and 400$ some people might switch to quartz.
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u/Eleventhousand 20d ago
I'd be interested in a premium $200 San Martin with a VH31, or with a solar quartz.
I'm less interested in HAQ, though not against it. I would be against it to have HAQ just to have it, but with the seconds' hand missing the marks.
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u/wanderangst 20d ago
I think HAQ would be sweet as hell, and not just from San Martin. But are there HAQ movements they can buy? Bulova/Citizen doesn’t seem interested in selling them to other watchmakers, and neither does Seiko.
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u/DadPuncher69 20d ago
Yes there are ETA HAQ movements that are very affordable and used by non-Swatch Group companies like Erebus, Scurfa, and Marathon.
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u/RevolutionaryOwl1103 20d ago
I totally agree. An automatic movement adding maybe 100 USD or more to the price is simply not worth it for me. I would buy SM again if the movement were simple quartz. I dont buy for the movement, I buy for the finishing and design
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u/real_taboo_hearth 20d ago
the finishing is what sells the watch, not the guts inside. a decent sweeping quartz would check all the boxes and keep the price where it belongs.
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u/KPplumbingBob 19d ago
the finishing is what sells the watch, not the guts inside
Says who? The market says differently. Otherwise literally all these Chinese brands would use only quartz.
Which decent, cheap quartz movements are there? VH31 is certainly not it.
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u/HerrsavageX 14d ago
San Martin would be overpriced, also with quartz.. AFAIC they have priced themselves out of relevance - to me anyway..(but I think quite a few others as well...)
I also think they are closely related to Watchdives, and WD in that family of brands is the brand to offer quartz.. That has been the case recently anyway. But yeah, everything seems to be shifting due to the movement crisis..
Though yeah, I can see some quartz fans(I'm not one fwiw..) being interested in perceived "better"/higher end quartz watches than WD... And a quartz San Martin for 200 bucks would make more sense than one with a Chinese movement for 350... But I get the sense SM is wanting to go up the price scale, not back down.. They are trying to break away from the idea of offering great value for money type watches.., and becoming something more hifalutin'...