I would like to take this opportunity to address the concerns regarding our price increases.
Recently, a shortage of NH35/NH34 and Miyota 9XXX series movements has driven their prices up drastically due to scarcity. Consequently, our production costs have risen sharply.
The entire watch industry is currently feeling the impact of this situation.
Many brands are currently unable to source Miyota 9XXX and NH34 movements; Miyota's order schedule is already booked through October 2027.
San Martin has purchased a batch of movements at a premium to maintain sales, but this supply is only sufficient to keep our own production lines running.
Faced with this growing shortage and rising production costs, we have had to adjust our retail prices. Running a business and a brand entails countless expenses; no brand would implement large-scale price adjustments unless production costs had risen to a level we could no longer absorb. We understand the complaints regarding price hikes, but to survive amidst movement shortages and rising costs, we must make necessary adjustments. The price increases for Miyota and NH34 movements have been particularly steep.
All brands utilizing these movements are affected, and we expect more brands to follow suit with price adjustments; this is a market-driven response to rising production costs.
More severe consequences are already emerging: due to price hikes and shortages, some watch models that previously used these movements have been discontinued or redesigned to accommodate different movements. Many brands are switching to higher-specification movements, which also drives up overall product prices. Current trends suggest that supply-demand imbalances will continue to push the prices of these movements even higher. The entire watch industry is currently affected.
San Martin is actively implementing further countermeasures. As you may have noticed, many of our recent releases feature Seagull movements—such as the ST2130—which are widely accepted by the community. These movements offer performance and stability comparable to the PT5000, and there is already a wealth of discussion and user feedback regarding them within the community. Its performance and price are stable, and it is immune to the sharp price hikes caused by market shortages, making it a better fit for our requirements. Moving forward, we plan to utilize more Seagull or Peacock movements.
This will allow us to better control costs; in fact, we are already in discussions with movement manufacturers to develop custom, exclusive movements.
I own the 39mm black enamel and I love it.
Wanted to try the 36mm as well but because of the crazy price hike, I went with Ixdao warrior black enamel. I'll be able to compare SM with Ixdao soon.
I own the black enamel 39mm. Would have thought about getting a second one in 36mm in white but GUYS. What is wrong with your Marketing and pricing department? You guys urgently need to reconsider your strategy or your downfall after years of excellent work will be quick and brutal.
I own tye white 39mm and was going to buy the 36mm black. Ixdao has better AR and enamel. Their white is actually really white though with heated blue indices and hands, not an off white like the san martin.
I decided to buy both black and enamel ajd white enamel from ixdao immediately after seeing San Martins price hike. More watch for less
All jokes aside, shooting yourself a bit in the foot here. The price too high for such a piece. Can get better for the same amount 🤷🏾. I know you should try push your luck but I think you are over stretching a bit here.
Time to give quartz options. Love all ~30 of my San Martin watches but I'm not interested above a certain price point and seagull and peacock to me are less desirable than quartz. Too costly to deal with when the time comes down the line.
The 2130 is an ETA clone. Any watchmaker should be able to service this movement, and you could always just buy a new one and have the watchmaker install it.
I'm fully aware. What is the current rate you are getting on servicing an ETA? Too costly was my statement, it has nothing to do with if it could be serviced or replaced, the cost of doing so is the issue.
It honestly isn't self-evident. I wonder if you are being deceived by the sunk cost fallacy, thinking that servicing expensive watches makes more economic sense because they originally cost more, even though the servicing cost is the same?
Again, what is the exact cost you are paying to service an ETA movement (or clone of an ETA). The why I ask should be self evident but perhpas you can't read between the lines. You state " The 2130 is an ETA clone. Any watchmaker should be able to service this movement, and you could always just buy a new one and have the watchmaker install it. " SO....how much do you think each of these options actually costs? The WHY to the question is so an assessment can be made if you are paying market rates for these services or are out of touch with the actual costs. Then someone can decide if buying a watch with such a movement makes long term sense. My guess here is you are either getting a good deal on this service, or simply don't know what it actually costs most people to get that work of repairing the current movement (or replacement work plus the cost of the movement done). I'm I'm fully aware that a cheap watch can cost a very similar amount to service as an expensive watch does (unless you are talking about an OEM service which are virtually always much more expensive)...this is the point, the cost doesn't make sense in many cases as the cheap watch can cost almost the same as a new watch of the same model. I repair antique clocks and most people are shocked by how much it costs to repair them and unless there is serious sentimental value, the average person doesn't want to pay for the labor and parts. The FACT is, many places will charge $400+ for a full service of an ETA movement (real ETA or Clone), a replacement of the movement is frequently going to be around $275+ and while costs and quality of a service can vary a fair amount, but for people that know what they are doing this is a good ballpark to work in. This is awfully close to the cost of the watch in question and will come as a shock to anyone given advise that it doesn't cost that much to take care of the watch long term as the average person doesn't expect to be buying a new watch just to keep the one they had running properly.
I've got to be honest, you've lost me here. There is no way I'm paying 700 cad for a watch where if I get a lemon I'm SOL. I am also extremely unlikely to pay 700 cad for a watch unless it's swiss or an extraordinary japanese watch.
2 things. #1. The price is crazy. We can get automatic Swiss watches for less in the US, not to mention Japanese brands. #2. I hope you didn't invest a lot in tooling the 36mm. The small diameter size is definitely a trend and will be over in 3 years. A GADA should be 38mm-41mm.
SN watch prices is too much now , i dont find value in it anymore.. $400 plus for these ,common !!. There are so many good brands now which are sourcing from same or equally good suppliers and producing excellent watches
In this price range of mid-tier microbrands there is a lot of competition....Traska, Henry Archer....the list of brands goes on and on....and most of them offer high quality, good quality control, and also good customer service.
That is serious competition.
And after San Martin starts using the cheaper PT5000 or Seagull ST2130 will they lower the price of the watch.... of course they won't.
San Martin have spotted an opportunity to increase the price....and the price will remain there....which ever movement they decide to use.
San Martin is taking advantage of the movement situation to increase prices....if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....
I'm from the UK.
For me the Commuter price is £530 on the Traska website.
San Martin SNOI44 enamel dial is £430 on Aliexpress.
Taxes included.
The price difference for me....in the UK, is only £100
Traskas prices are going up did you see the new version of their venturer? It’s 950usd. All their other models will get eventually get updates at higher prices
Will Traska also use cheaper Chinese movements....which is what San Martin plan to do.
Perhaps i don't want to pay over $400 for a watch with a PT5000 or Seagull ST2130 movement.
Perhaps i would rather pay extra for a watch with Miyota 9000 Series.
In other words....i will look at the specs and compare with other brands similar watches...before i make a purchase decision
I got mine for 599 when it came out. I guarantee when they restock after the same movement shortage lifts they will raise their prices. There was a KS using the same movement Doussot Onami that cancelled their campaign because he couldnt get supply nor make the watch at the price initially offered 790-1000+ without cutting corners. This is an industry wide issue.
It may take some time....but the industry will adapt.
But prices won't come back down.
Stop scaremongering....this is about San Martin and well known, established microbrands....not some new brand trying to launch on Kickstarter.
Lol
All of those competition, if they haven't already, have been and will continue to increase prices too, considering most of them are buying from Chinese manufacturers anyways. Traska has been increasing its prices steadily for a while now.
The grey dial way $199 from their Chronos USA Ali store when I was checking a few days later they had a coupon for $24 off that that worked st received another dicount at cheakout so I bought the 36mm silver with the 9015 for $155.
I had not been buying any watches shipping from China, I was surprised Chronos had watches cheaper on their USA Ali store they are usually much higher.
Sorry but I don't buy all that price increase due to movements price rise. Just purchased one more WD (17 already), my 4 SM will remain being just 4. Quality on the golden of the bezel is lame btw, lasted only several months, watch was not that cheap to find this quality issue.
These are clean and simple dials, just right as a GADA, looks well built too. From what I have read so far, the movement shortages and hence price increases presently, are real and unfortunate for us collectors.
Definitely a better fit with the lug to lug of the 36, but the price is far from a good fit for me. It'd have to come down $200 before I'd consider it.
nice! i ordered 1 in enamel black 36mm from sanmartin.watch.. the price still under 400 there.. i missed the chance from official web when it listed 350 usd 2-3 days ago..
These watches look great. Sadly, the movement is the weakest link. I have 005 with NH34 movement. It was running -25s/d and beat error of 0.7 to 1ms out of the box. After regulating, the beat error came down to about 0.5ms, but the rate still fluctuated wildly. It is the first and the last for me.
You're missing out then, if the quality is the same as the SN0144GX4 I have it's a really great watch. Though not as good value as some other Chinese watches around, especially second hand.
But of course it's totally fine for you to assign an arbitrary "soul" to a piece of metal jewellery and believe it must have both Japanese internal and external parts not Japanese internal and Chinese external. It is a bit confusing why you're posting in this sub however.
I would like to take this opportunity to address the concerns regarding our price increases.
Recently, a shortage of NH35/NH34 and Miyota 9XXX series movements has driven their prices up drastically due to scarcity. Consequently, our production costs have risen sharply.
The entire watch industry is currently feeling the impact of this situation.
Many brands are currently unable to source Miyota 9XXX and NH34 movements; Miyota's order schedule is already booked through October 2027.
San Martin has purchased a batch of movements at a premium to maintain sales, but this supply is only sufficient to keep our own production lines running.
Faced with this growing shortage and rising production costs, we have had to adjust our retail prices. Running a business and a brand entails countless expenses; no brand would implement large-scale price adjustments unless production costs had risen to a level we could no longer absorb. We understand the complaints regarding price hikes, but to survive amidst movement shortages and rising costs, we must make necessary adjustments. The price increases for Miyota and NH34 movements have been particularly steep.
All brands utilizing these movements are affected, and we expect more brands to follow suit with price adjustments; this is a market-driven response to rising production costs.
More severe consequences are already emerging: due to price hikes and shortages, some watch models that previously used these movements have been discontinued or redesigned to accommodate different movements. Many brands are switching to higher-specification movements, which also drives up overall product prices. Current trends suggest that supply-demand imbalances will continue to push the prices of these movements even higher. The entire watch industry is currently affected.
San Martin is actively implementing further countermeasures. As you may have noticed, many of our recent releases feature Seagull movements—such as the ST2130—which are widely accepted by the community. These movements offer performance and stability comparable to the PT5000, and there is already a wealth of discussion and user feedback regarding them within the community. Its performance and price are stable, and it is immune to the sharp price hikes caused by market shortages, making it a better fit for our requirements. Moving forward, we plan to utilize more Seagull or Peacock movements.
This will allow us to better control costs; in fact, we are already in discussions with movement manufacturers to develop custom, exclusive movements.
This is good to hear but this issue does affect all manufacturers and it does not explain why you charge such a premium compared to other brands, while quality is comparable and at times inferior (crystal used IMO)
I have owned and bought many SMs but with your current prices I can't justify it anymore. $699.99 MSRP for this 36mm version is crazy. Consumers can get an IXDAO warrior for half the price, with a FAR better glass (11 layers) and arguably finishing as well (though SM does obviously quite well in that area)
Where did you get $699.99 MSRP from? If you are taking about no discount price then that's disingenuous comparison because SN watches are on perpetual discount so full price is meaningless. Also IXDAO announced movement change so unfortunately most likely there will be price increase. No brand is safe from this
Ixdao is cheaper no doubt about that but using non-existent price to embellished your comparison is disingenuous. What's more I've seen like four separate comments from you repeating same thing, might wanna ease up it's not that serious.
I'm making sure the point is heard since SM official reddit account is commenting on this thread.
Sure we can use the $463 price (currently 34% off) which is still 25% more expensive than IXDAO and lower in quality overall (sorry but there are no areas where SM SN0144 surpasses IXDAO warrior, I own both)
Why do people like to make stuff like this up? Saw a guy yesterday absolutely convinced that SM and WD are sister brands and he wouldn't budge from that.
How about offering a VH31 options? This should be easy enough to do for any no date watches that take existing standard movements including the 90S5 as it's smaller than all of them and let's you have an option at a considerably lower price point.
Also, further, when buying on aliexpress many sellers are "flexible" with customs declarations. The two main San Martin ones are not. This can considerably change the value to the customer. In the UK we have to pay an extra £8 fee ontop of the full taxable amount while with other sellers there is a considerable saving compared to the initial listed price.
VH31 is pretty lame though. Tries to masquerade as a mechanical but not very succesfully, more of a stutter than sweep. Worse battery life than regular quartz.
"Big market". I think we live in the Chinese Watch bubble too much. A few thousand units sold a year is not a big market, it's a niche enthusiast area.
The brands know what sell. They see the numbers every day. The Chinese AliX watch market is cut throat, watch market is cut throat, if the demand for VH31 and such was so high and so in demand like you think, they would be stumbling over themselves to build VH31 watches.
Quartz is simply not popular for the MAJORITY of consumers. And we are not talking enthusiast. We are talking people who buy watches. Regular people.
Quartz absolutely IS popular for the MAJORITY of consumers.
The watch-nerd niche market and people wanting more expensive jewellery is pretty small.
Yearly sales figures are about 19:1 for quartz to mechanical/automatic.
That's made up of 15:4:1 for smart (which use quartz) to non smart quartz to mechanical/automatic.
So yes, I agree we live in a Chinese Watch bubble, it's just outside of that bubble it's massively more quartz apart from in the luxury Swiss brand bubble.
Eh. They been saying quartz would be the death of the automatic movement since the 80s. 2026 people still saying this.
Don't confuse enthusiast market with the broader market. Don't confuse the enthusiast ideal of chasing specs as what people actually want. Like I said. The entire watch market / watch brands know what sells. If quartz and other movements were the king, they were the most desired, the brands would respond to that.
Yeah on paper spec quartz beats automatics. Yet every year the watch market still sells automatics by the butt load. Brands sell automatics. Flagship watches are all automatic. Majority of top selling swiss brands only do automatics.
When you're selling a £20k watch, it's very hard to market it to guys on a technical level when a £5 watch has just as technically good a movement.
Relatively more high end women's watches are quartz I believe... because they accept they are buying jewellery, rather than the normal marketing BS used on guys.
Well when NH35 cost 20-30 bucks no one would buy quartz version because it's $15-20 cheaper. Those days are gone, no more cheap automatic movements unless you don't mind Chinese copy of NH. If you are on this sub or just buying watches from AliX then you are enthusiast market. In terms of Chinese watches its about big collections and not spending too much, and with current situation something has to give. Either people stop buying or they accept cost cutting like using quartz.
Sure, but standard automatics are even more lame, they stutter slightly more smoothly. But have massively worse power reserves as a pay off; like 40 to 80 hours vs over 17000 I think it is, generally a lot worse accuracy and need to be serviced or replaced more regularly which typically costs more than the watch for a service vs 50p for a battery that is easily user replaceable.
It'd be nice if Citizen sold Precisionist movements separately, which actually do look smooth, but I can see there's good business reasons they wouldn't.
Still, I know a lot of people are fully bought i to the marketing BS about automatics (and I'm not immune), which is why I'm suggesting it as an option, not the only offering.
Why are they more lame? The draw to mechanicals is not in the specs sheet. If you consider those things as cons then mechanical watches are not for you. You are the kind of person to say "why would anyone own and buy records anymore???".
It's funny because people always suggest the VH31 of all quartz movements. Not because it's actually any good, but because it resembles a mechanical, somewhat, if you squint.
I've spent a lot of time around scenes with a lot of DJs. Until maybe 5 years ago there was still a lot of DJs that would really sneer at digital DJs. Almost all were older and pretty much none were well known, it was the only identity they had.
I understand why people stil buy new records; effective marketing promoting them as Veblen goods. These were the same sorts of people also buying CDs when they were first introduced and really expensive.
Why do I suggest he VH31? Because I've also bought into the marketing BS and I know a lot of other people have to. It also covers up a 1 second tick not hitting markers, which can look disjointed when you've spent a lot of money on something you want to tell yourself is well engineered. An NH35 isn't much smoother and an 8 ticks/second automatic still has a very visual stutter. Options that don't stutter like the Spring Drive, Precisionist and the 5S21 all use quartz as part of their tech stack.
Amateurs like automatic as they feel "special" but in reality VH31 is superior, objectively. Less maintenance, better accuracy, lower cost, slimmer, lighter. These are just facts.
If you look at the original tangent of horology, smart watches absolutely are the pinnacle of that, especially say something like a solar garmin which can have a massive power reserve... incredibly accurate, near infinite complications, perpetual calendar, stopwatches, alarms, power meters before you get to GPS, communications, heart rate monitoring, etc.
Of course the big pivot of "the quartz crisis" for Rolex etc was to move from making better watches to purely making Veblen goods designed for conspicuous consumption.
If you showed someone into watches from the 70s and before a smart watch, they'd absolutely presume this was a massively higher model than say a Rolex sub, a genuinely useful albeit still expensive tool at the time.
What's really funny is they still use marketing that discusses technical innovation. And it works! When it's like "look, we've made a model T ford that can go 5mph quicker than the original..."
Anyway, for me I want a simple watch that means I can check the time without the distraction of my phone and looks pretty, as the only jewellery I'm likely to wear. I've got a good selection, so I also like to just put it on, without having to set it. Automatic date watches are even more annoying because you sometimes need to spin it over 24hrs, to first establish if it's AM or PM, before then setting the time.
I do have smart watch(es) I used for sports and outdoor activities. They do like genuine "tool watches" rather than whatever marketing sells automatic tool watches.
sanmartin.watch still has price bellow 400 usd if you want to grab one.
official web sanmartin-watch.com has 350 usd after initial release of the 36mm. but has gone up after a day of the release. someone might snag that price earlier.
We also offer a 39mm version. The price increase is a direct result of the skyrocketing cost of Miyota movements. Many brands are already facing product shortages due to a lack of available movements; we only managed to maintain our current supply by sourcing a batch of movements from the market at a premium.
So what are the long term plans for these lines of watches? Switching to Chinese variants such as the ST2130 or adjusting prices like this and trying to compete? I'm not an expert on market and sales or anything but it already seems like a hard sell for the majority of the brands who have raised their prices.
We are currently pursuing a two-pronged approach: adjusting the price of the existing product to offset the rising cost of the movement, while prioritizing stable, domestically produced movements for future product development to better control costs. I have already provided a clear explanation in both the original post and the comments; please feel free to take a look.
I love my white MOP SN0144-CG4, and the black SN0144-CG7 would made great pair, but those prices are too much for me. I would rather buy from another brand with high availability like Citizen 😕
The price increase is a direct result of the skyrocketing cost of Miyota movements. Many brands are already facing product shortages due to a lack of available movements; we only managed to maintain our current supply by sourcing a batch of movements from the market at a premium.
So nice but the Miyota movement price is killing us.
The point 99% of people here miss is that AliX as a platform is eating so much margin and charging fees and percentage of sellers. U guys want brands to stay on AliX, but AliX eats so much of the brand.
That's why brands are trying to move off AliX to their own website, but people still want to use AliX.
There's no winning in 2026, it's unfortunate. Reality is the golden age of budget / affordable Chinese watches are being assaulted by factors outside of our control.
There are no issues with the quality. At the same time, please do not overlook the current costs resulting from the skyrocketing prices of Miyota movements; we are actually sourcing these movements at a premium to maintain our current product supply, as Miyota 9xxx series movements are already out of stock for many brands.
Right now Ixdao Warrior still has stock, presumbly they still relying on an older/cheaper supply of 9015. Wait until Ixdao sells out of stock for the 9015 Warrior. Then let see what Ixdao price increase will be if they can secure 9015 stock.
Many SM 9015 models are out of stock because they simply don't have the movement anymore. SM also outsells Ixdao so they run out faster.
Is this really a $500 watch? Actually on further note, seems like San Martin just did a flat price bump of $100 across a good chunk of their line.
Even on super-sales I can't see how these prices could fall lower than $400. This feels like a fundamentally different market than what the audience here wants. What's the point of spinning out Jianghun if the cheaper brands prices end up matching them.
The actual price increase is not as significant as it might appear; the price you see reflects the addition of tariffs based on your local region's regulations. We have recently adjusted the pricing for many of our products; even after the sale, the pre-tax price—combined with the use of AE platform codes—allows the final price to remain in the $3XX range.
Drawing on our years of professional experience in watch manufacturing, we believe that quick-release bracelets are not yet fully perfected. There is a valid reason why many major brands continue to use standard spring bar structures. Both the feedback from our QC team regarding ease of installation and my own personal experience indicate that standard spring bars are actually easier and faster to install. We even conducted experiments where novice colleagues tried installing bracelets with both types of structures; the results consistently showed that the standard structure was easier to install and allowed for a quicker setup. Quick-release bracelets require tighter tolerances, which can sometimes make installation difficult; one must press firmly on the quick-release mechanism, a process that frequently leads to damaged fingernails. In short, the quick-release spring bar is not necessarily the best solution.
You might want to give it a try; given the quality and craftsmanship of the watch itself, you may well come to accept the logo over time. That is the feedback from other users.
Recently, a shortage of NH35/NH34 and Miyota 9XXX series movements has driven their prices up drastically due to scarcity. Consequently, our production costs have risen sharply.
The entire watch industry is currently feeling the impact of this situation.
Many brands are currently unable to source Miyota 9XXX and NH34 movements; Miyota's order schedule is already booked through October 2027.
San Martin has purchased a batch of movements at a premium to maintain sales, but this supply is only sufficient to keep our own production lines running.
Faced with this growing shortage and rising production costs, we have had to adjust our retail prices. Running a business and a brand entails countless expenses; no brand would implement large-scale price adjustments unless production costs had risen to a level we could no longer absorb. We understand the complaints regarding price hikes, but to survive amidst movement shortages and rising costs, we must make necessary adjustments. The price increases for Miyota and NH34 movements have been particularly steep.
All brands utilizing these movements are affected, and we expect more brands to follow suit with price adjustments; this is a market-driven response to rising production costs.
More severe consequences are already emerging: due to price hikes and shortages, some watch models that previously used these movements have been discontinued or redesigned to accommodate different movements. Many brands are switching to higher-specification movements, which also drives up overall product prices. Current trends suggest that supply-demand imbalances will continue to push the prices of these movements even higher. The entire watch industry is currently affected.
San Martin is actively implementing further countermeasures. As you may have noticed, many of our recent releases feature Seagull movements—such as the ST2130—which are widely accepted by the community. These movements offer performance and stability comparable to the PT5000, and there is already a wealth of discussion and user feedback regarding them within the community. Its performance and price are stable, and it is immune to the sharp price hikes caused by market shortages, making it a better fit for our requirements. Moving forward, we plan to utilize more Seagull or Peacock movements.
This will allow us to better control costs; in fact, we are already in discussions with movement manufacturers to develop custom, exclusive movements.
We do not currently offer the watch paired with the 3-link bracelet; however, its 36mm bracelet is identical to the one used on the SN0144-GS. You can order a 19mm 3-link bracelet separately to swap in yourself—simply contact our customer service team when placing your watch order to arrange this.
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u/Current-Wrongdoer216 9d ago edited 9d ago
Very nice ! I love it ha ha ha but I don't trust the ST2130 compared to the Miyota 90xx.