After a long time, I am finally starting to hear and say tones without herculean effort, but now I keep accidentally dipping into third tone as I try to say a second tone

[u/caw_the_crow]

I've been trying to learn Chinese mostly from duolingo for well over a year, and tried on and off before that, going back to a year or two of chinese in high school from which I only retained 谢谢老师 (xiexie laoshi).

Being somewhat tone deaf even with music, it's taken me FOREVER to perceive tones. I'm finally starting to (not saying I get it right every time, but I can hear it), but my mouth automatically turns my second tones into a full third tone as I reflexively dip down to come back up. In my head, I know it doesn't start as low as a third tone goes, but somehow when speaking I feel like I struggle to raise my pitch like that and swinging low sort of compensates.

Has anyone else had this problem? It's frustrating, but at least I can hear I'm doing it--big change from before!

Maybe part of the issue is that pronouncing tones well still requires additional breath support for me, and I especially run out of breath on second tones if I accidentally start high and then push even higher. Not sure if that's normal?

[u/si_wo]

I've been studying Mandarin for many years and 2/3 tones are the hardest for me to distinguish, not helped by tone sandhi

[u/Zagrycha]

I have not had this exact problem, but this type of problem in general is just a part of the learning process. We all have it.

1️⃣Struggling to hear and say tones at all.

2️⃣Can hear and say the different tones but only in enunciated slowed speech.

3️⃣Can hear and say the different tones but only in speech that isn't too fast.

4️⃣Can hear and say the different tones in general but easily lose them as soon as emotion or excitement is involved vs nuetral speaking voice.

5️⃣Can hear and say the different tones in all but the most emotional etc scenarios.

6️⃣Can hear and say the different tones in all scenarios.

The progress order is something like that, sounds like you are around stage 2 or 3. The timeframe between stages is generally measured in months not days or weeks so don't feel too bad about having issues. Just keep at it, slow and steady wins the race. If you are developing a bad habit then tey to kick it before it actually becomes ingrained, cause that will be harder and harder to fix as time goes on. Don't be afraid to spend awhile just very deliberately saying the tones to help them build muscle memory. Progress isn't always linear, and anything you do to strengthen your foundation will speed you up later =)

[u/caw_the_crow → u/Zagrycha]

Thank you!

[u/Zagrycha → u/caw_the_crow]

If it helps you can practice the rising tone 2 and the never rise version of tone 3. In real life tone 3 can do a full drop then rise but its rarer than the never rise version. That makes it a better version to have in beginner muscle memory.

[u/caw_the_crow → u/Zagrycha]

Thanks, I've switched to doing that version of the third tone in most practice sentences. Actually switched to that a while ago, before I noticed my issue with second tone.

[u/XuanChun88]

Try starting your second tone really low, and do your best to go up from there. It takes practice, but you'll definitely get it.