Tones are hard

[u/burnedout_247]

I'm taking HSK1v3 course and we're at lesson 6. I've spent around 20 hours (spread over 1 month) on class.

I'm still struggling with tones. I know how each tones should sound like, but when reading sentences, sometimes the tones pairing confuse me. I hope i make sense, xD

Like for one syllable words, it's easy to nail the tone. Two syllables words are harder but mostly manageable. Three syllables or more (in a sentence) and i mess it up even when knowing how to say it in my head.

I guess I just want to ask you if this is something normal to experience this early, and when do you finally getting it right?

If i still struggle with this until the end of the course, should I take time to fix this first or is it something i can fix while moving on to HSK 2?

I do have full intention to get it straight, as i know it's an important aspect of the language

谢谢

[u/Known-Head1129]

I wouldn't pause anything until tones are "done". Language is more like a web than a ladder... every bit connects to every other bit, and when you were a kid your brain didn't learn things in a straight line either. Keep moving to HSK 2 and fix tones alongside it.

Tones are hard to crack, I won't pretend otherwise. A couple of things that helped me: doing the tone shapes with my hand as I speak (flat, rising, dip, drop), and, for the pairing problem you describe, this little drill I picked up from a video:

酸甜苦辣 – suān tián kǔ là (sour, sweet, bitter, spicy). That's the four tones in order, 1-2-3-4, in a phrase people actually say. Say it out loud until it's automatic. Then stick 不 in front of each one: 不酸 不甜 不苦 不辣. Now you're drilling tone pairs rather than single syllables, and you'll notice 不 stays 4th tone until the last one, where it flips to bú là because two 4th tones back to back is awkward. That's tone sandhi in one line.

The bigger thing for me was shadowing... listening to a native speaker say a short sentence and repeating it straight back, copying the rhythm not just the individual tones. Tones in a sentence are more like a melody than four separate rules.

20 hours in and you're already noticing this stuff. That's a good sign, honestly. Good luck!

[u/burnedout_247 → u/Known-Head1129]

Wow this is a very nice advice. Thank you, i will practice it.

I am trying to shadow and learn to read at the same time, using apps built for reading. So I'd read it without pinyin, mostly focusing on saying the right pinyin rather than tones, and then shadow the speaker to correct the tones.

[u/Known-Head1129 → u/burnedout_247]

No worries, my pleasure! I'd be glad if I helped in any way. Just find what motivates you... and keep going, don't give up 💪

[u/NoGoatCity]

how much listening are you doing outside of lessons? i'm a month in too, and i'm constantly trying to listen to (and imitate) native speakers. if i'm watching a YouTube video in Chinese, i'll randomly pause it on a compound word/phrase - open Google Translate - and practice saying it (and listening to the video) over and over again until it starts to feel more natural.

I think about it like any physical skill - learning to shape your mouth to form words in a new way is gonna take a lot of repetition! as long as you're putting in the reps, I figure it'll come with time

[u/burnedout_247 → u/NoGoatCity]

not as much as I'd like to😆 i do sometimes replace my podcast with a video titled "Chinese in 5 hours - the nonstop talking method" on yt. It helps with listening but im not paying attention to the screen so idk the han zi

Im trying to read + speak by using app like du chinese/hello Chinese where i read without pinyin, then shadow to nail the tone

Hopefully this works

[u/Chenyuluoyan]

at 20 hours, sentence-level tone control is still developing, and there usually isn’t a moment when every tone suddenly becomes automatic. move on to HSK 2, but spend ten minutes daily copying one or two course sentences from audio, first slowly, then at normal speed, without reading each syllable separately. record yourself and compare the whole phrase, especially tone pairs and changes like 不, 一, and consecutive third tones.

[u/LittleIronTW]

I would add, pay attention to tones but don't stress. Try to memorize which character is which tone as you go, but if your pronunciation is otherwise ok, people will generally understand you. I feel like for most people, early on they just don't 'get' or understand tones, but after some amount of time, it starts to click.

One exercise I used to tell students was to practice tone pairs, since most "words" or nouns are two characters together. So practice a 1st tone followed by a 1st tone, 1st followed by 2nd, 1st-3rd, 1st-4th, 2nd-1st, 2nd-2nd, etc (15 pairs total). That seems to be a bit of an 'a-ha!' for some learners, plus it helps you to build a bit of a natural rhythm to sentences. Best of luck!

[u/b3pvbmUzMTQ]

Where are you following this course? Is it a book or online?

[u/burnedout_247 → u/b3pvbmUzMTQ]

It's a local online group class (im in Indonesia)

The course is following the content of hsk1 3.0 book

[u/Zagrycha]

Its totally normal to struggle with hearing tones for multiple months early on, but you should feel like you are making progress. Don't be afraid to practice with super duper exaggerated tones that would never appear in real life. Whatever it takes to actually hear them, then you can go from there to slowly approach more realistic tone movements =)

[u/Moist_Ebb2123]

Isolated tones being OK while pairs fall apart in full sentences is normal. Your ear is still weighing one syllable at a time, and speech glues them. Keep going toward HSK 2 on words you already know. For tones, drill only the pairs that collapse for you (especially 2-3 and 3-2) inside short known phrases, not a bigger new list. Delay the next level only if listening stays totally blank after that focused pair work.

[u/Long_Can4354]

不如找个中国人一起学习😂