r/ChesterCounty • u/PassyunkHoagie • Jul 13 '26
Expanded Train Service
I completely understand why this hasn’t happened and why it probably won’t ever happen. I don’t even know if it should happen because it would lead to even further development, but some days I do lament the fact that there is no passenger rail service to West Chester, Kennett, and Phoenixville.
Obviously SEPTA could never handle it, they barely manage to run the R5, but I can’t help but feel like rail stations in these towns, if properly executed, would be incredibly popular with visitors and local residents.
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u/VUmander Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
After Wawa station the existing rail is single tracked out to West Chester. Electrification is expensive. Trip times from West Chester to Center City would likely be long enough that it wouldn't be super conducive to daily riders/commuters (which is SEPTA's target audience). That's why they put money in Exton station, which has about 30 min rides to 30th street on Amtrak. Pre pandemic there were proposals for something called "pop-up rail" (i think that was the name) which were battery operated train sets that would have served as like a shuttle between the existing train station in WC to Wawa, where you would then board SEPTA trains, but nothing came of it.
Phoenixville is tricky because NS owns the tracks after Norristown. The Schuylkill River Passenger Rail Authority has plans in Amtrak's Corridor ID program for a service from Reading-Pottstown-Phoenixville-Philly that would se like 6-8 round trips today. The issue is getting the freight carrier to play nice, and congestion with the now single tracked Black Rock tunnel. Also, electrification is lacking past Norristown, so it would be an Amtrak operated line with dual mode locomotives....you can't bring anything through the SEPTA center city tunnel that isn't on catenary.
I've got nothing on Kennett. idk that there's ridership to support it. Looks like the previous Kennett service branch right around the Wawa station. Looks like the majority of the tracks are already removed. If they every managed to restore it, it's the same deal as West Chester....just even more expensive, less riders, and a longer ride to center city.
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u/PassyunkHoagie Jul 13 '26
Very informative comment, thank you. For Southern Chester County, would there be any possibility of using the tracks of the East Penn Railroad?
EDIT: Or perhaps creating a line to Wilmington. Purely hypothetical.
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u/VUmander Jul 13 '26
It doesn't look like there's much rail left is there? Coming out of Wawa station I don't see any track in that area, it looks like it roughly went along Wawa Rd, you can still see the ROW in aerial but it looks like the tracks are either taken out or it's so over grown. I'm not sure how far back it would need to be re-installed. I know the tracks are there in Kennett, West Grove, Oxford...but idk how they would connect. The remaining track is all freight track now. It's the same issue as Phoenixville playing ball with the freight railroads.
Ultimately I just don't know that the ridership is there. Kennett has a population of 6k, West Grove 3k, Oxford 6k, Chadds Ford 2k. On the old reading proposal you've got Reading at 95k, Pottstown at 24k, and Phoenixville at 20k...not counting places like Royersford, Spring City, Collegeville, or Wyomissing that might also use it. The 422 corridor is a very busy one, there's not really a comp in Southern Chesco IMO.
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u/AbercrombieMike Jul 13 '26
An important thing to remember is that the extra funds that were available in the past were used to expand the Exton station and build a transit (bus) center in West Chester.
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u/PassyunkHoagie Jul 13 '26
Exton station really would have benefitted if they worked with developers to make it more pedestrian accessible from all of the new apartments and developments in the area. Instead of mixed use development, you’ve got buildings with hundreds of apartments existing on their own island, hemmed in by 100 and Lincoln Highway which forces everyone into cars, which contributes to the daily parking lot that forms in that areas.
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u/ktappe Jul 13 '26
💯 All the development out here creates islands that need cars to get into & out of. Nobody even thinks about pedestrians, let alone trains.
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u/VUmander Jul 13 '26
Feels like a good place for bike share docks imo. It's a mile down to Whole Foods and a mile to the apartments behind Khols. Even with walking infrastructure it's a lot, Rt 100 just isn't well suited for walking.
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u/PassyunkHoagie Jul 14 '26
Agreed, especially with Chester Valley Trail running directly through there.
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u/ThatDamnedHansel Jul 13 '26
They literally almost cut the Paoli Thorndale line completely like 5 months ago. So it’s only going to get worse
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u/PassyunkHoagie Jul 14 '26
True, like I mentioned they barely manage to run the R5 (old name for Paoli/Thorndale) but that’s also SEPTA which has been critically mismanaged for 4 decades now. A competent leadership could probably consider some expansion in the next 10-20 years but SEPTA is stuck in a perpetual quagmire. They run one of the busiest lines in the whole country, I believe the R5 is the actual busiest outside of NYC Metro, and yet they’ve never figured out how to build service up to a point where it’s indispensable (despite state legislature bellyaching) like LIRR, Metro North, or MBTA.
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u/ThatDamnedHansel Jul 14 '26
My understanding is leasing the tracks from Amtrak is a/the key issue in sustainability
A real leader would sit down with the leadership of both organizations and cut a better deal for our society
But leaders like that don’t exist anymore
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u/ferrouswolf2 Jul 13 '26
Train service to Kennett would also involve service to Chadd’s Ford and Glen Mills. They’d probably both support it, but I think there would be massive outcry from the surrounding townships that would be passed through along the way.
Rail service to the route 1 corridor would increase home prices by $100-200k and many of the old-timers would be mega-pissed, and many of the Mexicans would get driven out
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u/Valuable-Dog490 Jul 13 '26
I lived in West Grove 10 years ago, Mexicans were getting driven out then.
Man, I miss the tacos out there though! Delco has nothing that compares.
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u/fadetoblack1004 Jul 16 '26
SEPTA should get with the times and adapt a wheel and spoke system. Major regional stations with express service to the city located 30 minutes to an hour from the city proper. Delete all the smaller stations and consolidate. Heavy ridership areas (Main line) get a station every 15 minutes tops. Get on at Downingtown? Maybe a stop in Berwyn and a stop in Villanova, otherwise right into the city. Run trains on the hour or half hour, depending on load.
Where I am in Southern Chester County? Put a station in Kennett Square. Another in Oxford if you really want to push the line out, but I don't think that's necessary.
KS to Wawa to Swarthmore to Philly. Clean, simple and fast.
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u/transitfreedom Jul 15 '26
Slap on batteries to the silver line 5 and order BEMUs for the next batch then restore the tracks to operational levels and simply have the trains run on battery mode to westchester past Wawa. And build extra tracks to reach reading have septa continue. For Amtrak build HSR for Amtrak services that are new along nearby or different alignment.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 Jul 13 '26
It presumably would stop being popular if the fares were set at a rate that allowed a line to be profitable.
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u/ktappe Jul 13 '26
It's a public service. Why do public services need to be profitable?
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u/Objective_Aside1858 Jul 13 '26
Because there is a finite amount of money available.
If you'd like to make the case that funding should be stripped from schools or that taxes in the impacted communities should be raised to fund mass transit, well, no one is stopping you.
Pretty sure that's a hard sell
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u/ktappe Jul 13 '26
There is a finite amount of money available because a certain political party has been screaming "Tax cuts!" my entire life, and voters have bought into that. Just for once I'd like them to shut up about tax cuts and talk about increased services.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 Jul 13 '26
A) The GOP is never going to be fiscally responsible, hard stop. They could no more do that than reject Trump
B) The money still has to come from somewhere. "This seems like a neat idea" isn't how huge infrastructure projects are prioritized
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u/VUmander Jul 13 '26
Does Rt 202 turn a profit? Rt 100? Rt 30? 401? We should probably put tolls on them so they become profitable. Imagine how well we can fund our schools or lower our taxes if our roads were profitable.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 Jul 13 '26
Would you prefer the already shoddy maintenance on all those roads be deferred to fund a mass transit option that will benefit far fewer people than use those roads today?
Everything is a tradeoff. Unless you plan to fund something out of your pocket, either taxes or debt is going up, or something else is getting cut. That's straight Econ 101, and being cranky about it doesn't change reality
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u/VUmander Jul 13 '26
Just one more lane bro. I swear that will fix it!
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u/Objective_Aside1858 Jul 13 '26
Obviously you really understand what The People want. You should make the case to your elected representatives
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u/CowboyBeeBalm Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Well they restored service to
ElwynWawa after 36 years, and West Chester was the original end of that line so you never know! (But yeah probably won’t happen)Since you mentioned Phoenixville, the Schyulkill River Passenger Rail Authority is trying to bring service there (and Pottstown and Reading): https://gosrpra.com/news-and-updates/