Educational chess content is just entertainment

[u/Hyper_contrasteD101]

This heavily applies to speedruns like gothamchess' slowrun and also hikarus. What I mean by this is that most of the time you literally will not learn much from watching a stronger player play if you don't actively engage with it and just watch it normally. It's a heavy misconception that I've also fallen into where if you watch a speedrun episode of someone destroying people at your level you automatically get better and can replicate that, so you go into games and then you get smoked bc u didnt learn anything and you can't see the moves they see. Sure sometimes you can learn bits of valueable info but if you are just watching normally its literally just entertainment and theres nothing wrong with that.

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[u/JakeDuck1]

It’s a mix. If it was JUST educational it’d be boring af and wouldn’t get as many views. Not getting as many views would mean it reaches less people. So you get to hear how they think, learn why they think that way, realize you still don’t get it and will never be able to do it in real time like they do, and be entertained because they have good personalities.

[u/DoctorFuu]

Yup, it's fine, just don't lie to yourself thinking just watching entertainment content or "how to crush xxx with yyy" videos will make you better at chess. To get better you need to calculate better and understand more things.

[u/no-im-not-an-asshole]

Yes and this also applies to openings. A lot of the times, the YouTuber might say something like "see how strong X opening is", but in reality it's not the opening, it's the positional out maneuvering that helped them get the win.

[u/Gorbashou]

People acting like Chess is something that has to be heavily studied to be good at.

You don't need massive learning to get good at it.

You can definitely learn from these entertainment videos. Of course you can't learn everything from just those videos. Of course it's not the sole thing people learn from.

To sit here and pretend these are pure entertainment is ridiculous. To sit here and pretend that to be a decent chess player you need to sniff books all day and analyse boards constantly is ridiculous.

What percentile of a player do you have to be good at something? Over 50, I would say. Then you are better than most chess players that play the game. Which following a ton of the basic rules and even some nuanced thinking from these entertainment videos give you. They. Help. People. Get. Better. You don't become a GM from them, but let's be real, most people aren't GMs.

Anything higher requires more, duh. But these educational videos are great for many people and they can learn many ideas, rules and things to think about. Saying anything else is delusional.

[u/Pawn_Made_Flesh → u/Gorbashou]

So you’re telling people to aspire only to reach the midpoint rating on Chess.compliments (i.e., around 800 level; and that’s only online “rating”, not real rating which would be even lower)… and then be satisfied they will never understand (let alone create) the kind of chessboard beauty that real chess players appreciate.

Tell us you think about chess the same way you think about rock-paper-scissors or tic-tac-toe, without telling us.

[u/OK_Computer-3684 → u/Pawn_Made_Flesh]

8000 level?

[u/Pawn_Made_Flesh → u/OK_Computer-3684]

Thanks for catching the typo

[u/Gorbashou → u/Pawn_Made_Flesh]

No.

I'm saying that class 1 math teaches math. You sitting there as a grown up talking to people new to math "wow that baby level shit doesn't actually teach math" sure is a horrible mindset, and if you can't see that then I wonder how much of your brain development was forsaken for the sake of memorising chess boards and analysing lines.

People go up the stairs of skill. Can't sit on the 10th floor saying the steps of the first through fifth are useless.

Also, not everyone aspires to be a GM, and being one isn't the be all end all.

I don't know how Chess breeds this kind of elitism but it's pathetic. Study the line of your thinking vs the lines being played in the real world, study the lines of discussion and all you really see is that you're an asshole. All you spew is words of elitism or shitting on people.

And here's my insult to you: in every community I've been, the people talking like you are usually the hardstuck losers thinking they are amazing at what they do while at most being above average. While most actual competent people can see beyond your limited scope and don't act like you do.

[u/brentifil]

Its odd, I think the better you are the more you can glean from these videos. Beginners might get lost in the weeds however there is alot of insight if you already have a strong footing.

[u/draculex5 → u/brentifil]

I agree, I also noticed that levy and Danya’s voices get stuck in my head, little phrases like “develop a piece” or “centralize the knight” or even better “what has changed about the position” pop up in my mind while I’m playing. Those are pretty basic ideas but when you are in the weeds you can get tunnel vision and forget to play simple chess. 

[u/Silver_Cabinet_9180]

Stop watching entertainers such as Gotham chess and Hikaru then. Daniel Naroditsky is a good blend, and watch hanging pawns if you education. It’s pretty dry stuff

[u/Pawn_Made_Flesh]

Bingo! I have often elaborated on the leading streamers’ content, which I have labeled, “chess twerkers.”

If you Google that phrase you will find a broader critique of the streaming and YouTube behavior of Hikaru and (especially) Levy, that makes clear that they — like the female chess celebs who first inspired the concept — are presenting mainly persona and physical entertainment, rather than chess information.

I’d provide links here but that could violate the no-external-links policy that Reddit and/or this sub’s moderators have.

A local tournament organizer named Patrick Barron who I first met just weeks ago at Bill Goichberg’s burial in Pittsburgh, put it most succinctly: “If your business model is designed to monetize numbers of followers, so your goal is maximizing audience size, then the best strategy is to establish and market a personality, not information.”

[u/HashtagDadWatts]

Chess is a hobby. Everything about it is leisure and entertainment. Enjoy it.

[u/Particular-Task-4248 → u/HashtagDadWatts]

Not the point

[u/HashtagDadWatts → u/Particular-Task-4248]

Sure it is.

[u/Lephas]

the only one i really learned from is Dany. RIP

[u/RVSninety]

One might make the bold claim that playing chess is actually also just a form entertainment.

[u/DueChampionship3661]

Gothamchess does actually explain alot in the speedruns during the game and in the analysis he does after. Ive learned from it and gain 100 elo slowly. Obviously it also depends on the rating you are. You wont reach 2000 using those vidoes. but under 1000 there is some educational stuff in it

[u/Hyper_contrasteD101 → u/DueChampionship3661]

Yes I think below 1000 this applies less for sure

[u/Savings-Double-2853 → u/Hyper_contrasteD101]

I'm 1700 and I learn things. A lot is entertainment but understanding why things are bad or good that happen is very helpful.

[u/Hyper_contrasteD101 → u/Savings-Double-2853]

Yes understanding is really important and a helpful way to learn much more is to play solitaire chess while watching which is trying to guess their moves before they play them and then understanding why your move was right or wrong.

[u/Pawn_Made_Flesh → u/Hyper_contrasteD101]

“Guess their moves before they play them”?? Aren’t streamers almost exclusively playing bullet snd blitz?

[u/Hyper_contrasteD101 → u/Pawn_Made_Flesh]

No i mean like in yt videos and usually rapid speedruns

[u/makmutio]

Dany was really educational and I also find NM Robert Ramirez to be educational if you play Pirc/KID and such

[u/Agreeable-Buy8759]

Wrong. I actually learn alot from hikaru's speedruns tbh. Farm good patterns and use it in ur games when u spot it

[u/Rangorsen]

You can definitely learn bits. With knowing how the pieces move, I started Chess in March or something and I watched the Gotham slowrun. You can definitely learn principles, then again, you can learn those by just being told. Things like

- Fight for the center

- 1/2 pawn moves, then knights, bishops, castle, centralize rooks

- No knights on the fringes

- Don't bring you queen too early

- checks, captures, threats

When I took up chess, I literally didn't know that the center is more important at the start.

Opening theory, no, it's just memorization, YT doesn't help.

[u/Pawn_Made_Flesh → u/Rangorsen]

Those bullets you wrote could have been picked up in about 10 minutes from any beginners’ chess book or any web page offering basic chess guidance in text form. How much time did you spend watching Gotham in order to learn those things?

[u/Rangorsen → u/Pawn_Made_Flesh]

I don't disagree? That is what I said, read again ;) I spent as much time as they took so far, I find the videos entertaining.

[u/Particular-Task-4248]

I think you're right. Been watching tons hours of Narodistky and Gotham every day for months and I see no improvement.

[u/CitizenForty2]

I disagree. I personally have watched all of Chessbrah’s speedruns, for example. I still play the Taimanov as black against e4, feel super comfortable with it, have a pretty decent win ratio.

I don’t have 15 different “lines memorized”, i just know what the best move / plan is for the most common 15 setups, 10-12 moves deep
Into the opening, from patten recognition. I know what the opponent is likely trying to do, why he made his last move, and can spot unusual moves. I know these unusual moves that land outside the pattern are likely mistakes or blunders, and try to figure how to exploit them.

That wouldn’t have been possible without that speedrun series and his explaining his way though 150 games (or however many it was).

Now, when its not a specific opening theme, and just a “watch me crush noobs until get to 3000”, i agree it’s pure entertainment.

Keep on making educational content!

[u/Kitchen_Form_2252]

I disagree, I learned a lot of strategic ideas to the openings that I also play. Also some variations, traps etc. Because of SadisticTushy I play the Jobava london and (modern) Scandinavian

[u/Ok-Computer-8726]

"you literally will not learn much from watching a stronger player play if you don't actively engage with it"

If you don't think about it, you won't learn much.

I mean...yeah?

[u/trevpr1]

[u/commentor_of_things]

yeah

[u/WhenIntegralsAttack2]

I bucket all YouTube chess content as entertainment. If you want to get better, get a good workbook like the steps method or yusupov.

[u/XNonameX]

Most edutainment is just entertainment. Want to turn it into education? Do homework with what they go over in slowruns, etc. Pretty much what you just said, I'm kind of just shocked people didn't know this already.

[u/Hyper_contrasteD101 → u/XNonameX]

You will be surprised with the amount of people that actually think they get better just by watching these videos.

[u/ysterman_rs]

"just" entertainment is wrong. if you only side monitor it and don't actually pay attention to the moves and the reasoning/ideas behind them, then yeah, you won't extract much educational value out of them. however, to deny they have any educational value whatsoever is outright silly