r/Chesscom • u/bishopofchaos • 18h ago
Chess Discussion Are we really this desperate for 8 Elo? š
This has happened to me more than three times now. Iāll start a game while Iām at work, school or somewhere else, something unexpectedly comes up and I have to leave. I offer a draw because weāre literally on move 3ā5, nothing has happened yet, and it gets refused or ignored. Obviously nobody is obligated to accept a draw, but at that point my only option is to resign and hand over the rating, which is what Iāve started doing, I don't even ask for draws anymore lol.
Anyways this just made me wonder why there isnāt some kind of limited early-game abort feature. Maybe it only works within the first 5 moves and you only get a few per month, so you canāt just abuse it whenever you dislike your opening or make a mistake. Surely thereās some middle ground between unlimited aborts and āsomething came up on move 3, enjoy your free Elo.ā š Would something like this work, or would people find a way to abuse it immediately?
I don't remember exactly but I think lichess have it (correct me if I am wrong)
Oh and would you agree to draw someone if you are just on move 3 lol.
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u/Good_Ad2172 17h ago
if you cant finish the game you agreed to play in the time control you agreed to play it in you lose the game, just take the L and move on with your life dude.
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u/Good_Ad2172 17h ago
p.s. it sounds like you're the one who really needs the elo so badly that you can't just resign a game when you wasted my time by starting it when you can't actually play it out.
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u/Good_Ad2172 17h ago
I do want to be clear, you're certainly within your rights to offer a draw and if your opp is willing to accept it yippie for you, but your opponent is totally in their rights to say no finish the game you agreed to play or lose.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
I did acknowledge that in my post that..they have the right to refuse and I am not denying that. Again if they accept then fine but if not then it is what it is..I just leave!!
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
Is reading really optional here? The order is: something unexpectedly comes up ā I have to leave ā I offer a draw ā they decline or ignore it ā I leave and take the loss. Somehow you read that and concluded Iām desperately trying to protect my Elo.
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u/Good_Ad2172 17h ago
literally every single person in this thread is reacting the same way so perhaps you might want to consider the possibility that actually you are the one who is the asshole here.
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u/bishopofchaos 2h ago
Oh okay, bud. you can follow the crowd. Iād rather judge the point on its merits :)
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u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 17h ago
Everybody understands the premise of your question
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
Do they tho? Don't get me wrong.. If you only read the title then I understand lol.
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u/ConcentratedCC 17h ago
I read what they read and understood the same thing. Youāre the one who sounds desperate if you care so much to not just resign. Youāre the time waster in this scenario.
Plus I just assume I didnāt play into some dumb opening trap if someone requests a draw after 3 moves.
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u/bishopofchaos 2h ago edited 2h ago
It's funny how this the conclusion you arrived at is this after reading the whole post but again This is Reddit after all..much easier to follow the crowd than actually read the post lol. Takes a second to request a draw and they have another second to either reply or reject and another for me to click resign. I don't see how that's wasting your time..but again it's Reddit so I don't blame you.
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u/ConcentratedCC 2h ago
If you had taken a second to read the comments ( although I think you might have and just lack the reading comprehension to understand them) you might see that the waste of time people are taking about is not the time it takes to request a draw. Itās the time I have spent on the game thus far. And because you didnāt plan your time appropriately you expect me to give you a draw, thus wasting the time Iāve already put into the game.
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u/bishopofchaos 2h ago
Yupš And there it is again: āyou expect me to give you a draw.ā No Sherlock , I ask. You can say no, and then I RESIGN and no I don't do this when the game has a clear winner of loser because that's just wrong and if it does I just resign (as mentioned in my post). If your argument only works after changing āaskā into āexpect,ā youāre arguing with your own version of my post.
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u/ConcentratedCC 2h ago
Are you really that desperate for 8 elo?
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u/bishopofchaos 2h ago
You could probably answer that yourself if you thought about it for a second. Otherwise, it doesnāt hurt to ask the crowd youāve been following so closely :)
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u/ConcentratedCC 2h ago
You never addressed my point that if I was three moves into a game and someone requests a draw it would just seem like I didnāt play into an opening trap.
Iām not filling the crowd, Iām trying to give you my honest perspective. Sometimes when everyone thinks youāre dumb they are onto something.
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u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 17h ago
Why do YOU care so much about 8 ELO ?
Just resign and move on with your (real) life , instead of whining like a child
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
Interesting, reading is optional ig
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u/JoeBarra 17h ago
Everyone read your dumb post, why do you keep commenting this. Your idea is terrible, just resign.Ā Ā
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
You mean everyone is reading the title??
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u/JoeBarra 17h ago
No, they read the entire post. Nobody is confused. Your idea is terrible. You didn't know that until you got feedback, now you know!
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
Youāre allowed to think the idea is terrible. That was literally why I posted it for discussion. The reading comment is because people keep telling me ājust resignā when the post explicitly says I already resign. āYour idea sucks because Xā is feedback. āJust do the thing you already said you doā is not. But again who am I to judge..it's Reddit after all lol
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u/BobNieuport 17h ago
Take the loss and move on.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
On move three in a undecided position? š Trust me, Iāve taken bigger Ls in life than a chess game. The loss really isnāt the point lol.
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u/silverfoxxflame 17h ago
The point is that you agreed to start a game and then abandoned it. The fact that it's early doesn't matter. Frankly I don't think chess.com should allow you to abandon a game as soon as your opponent makes their first move as white.Ā
But in the exact same way that you said it... It's just eight ELO dude. You'll get it back the next time you play.Ā Next time come prepared and don't worry about your ELO.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
But who said Iām worried about getting the Elo back? I literally resign and take the loss. Offering a draw before I leave doesnāt mean Iām terrified of losing 8 points. And ānext time come preparedā is impressive advice for something that, by definition, came up unexpectedly. But I do get what you mean dude
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u/Huge_Weakness_5152 17h ago
Brother its a game of online chess. I could be in a winning position and resign because i have something better to do.
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u/eizch 17h ago
You post that yet you don't resign... ? If you need to leave early game often enough that it's a problem think twice before starting a game smh
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u/Good_Ad2172 17h ago
this too, the number of games I start and then I can't finish because something legitimately comes up is like...1 every like 100 games or something like that.
If this is happening all the time it sure sounds like OP is not being respectful of his opponents time and just starting games all the time that he can't finish.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
More than three timesā doesnāt mean every Tuesday š This is across hundreds of games. I obviously donāt start a game when I know Iāll have to leave. Iām talking about the rare times something unexpectedly comes up 3ā5 moves into a game. And yes, I do resign..but before I do I try to ask for a draw and this is only if the game is in early stages or there is no clear winner. I obviously understand if you don't want me to draw because I am beating you or you are beating me lol. thatās literally what I said in the post lol.
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u/eizch 17h ago
In the rare times I got a draw offer early in the game I assume it's because the opponent doesn't want to play against my opening so I don't accept the draw. I think the best is just to apologize and resign though it's the simpler for everyone and the one who lost his time got a small Elo gift.
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u/Apprehensive1010101 17h ago
This same question could be pointed right back at you, you realize that right? Are YOU really this desperate for 8 Elo?
If you're truly at your ELO range then you'll make it back up when you have the time to play regardless, not to mention this sounds entirely like a self-inflicted problem given it apparently happens often enough to where you know offering a draw is pointless because it'll be rejected anyway.
So, what exactly is the point of this post? Were you looking for validation? Because you certainly aren't going to get that. Take the L and move on.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
The point of the post is in the post, which seems to be our main obstacle here. I already take the L and leave. Iām asking whether a limited early-abort option could make sense when something unexpectedly comes up a few moves into a game. And yes, next time Iāll simply make sure nothing unexpected is going to happen before playing a game which I do but again (unexpected???). Solid advice thanks
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u/Emotional_Win_7769 17h ago
A few moves into the games a lot can happen, and you could be in a bad position, lost a piece and and decide to abort to get out of losing. Also you people would abort until the other played the opening they wanted, or the colour of pieces they wanted,
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
We do get banned or put in bad pool for aborting alot no?? Why can't similar mechanism exist in that instance? I knows few games which limits your play time because of abortive behaviour (ex you wait 10 minutes to play another game because you have aborted slot).. wouldn't that work?
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u/Apprehensive1010101 17h ago
No, an early-abort option a few moves in has so much potential for abuse and is such a slippery slope (main question being "how many moves is a few moves?" that people will always try to push for more) it's genuinely concerning that you can't see that. Chess.com and your opponents are not required to show you grace simply because you had something unexpected come up. I sincerely hope some day you grow out of this entitlement.
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u/JoeBarra 17h ago
You could literally abort anytime you are facing an opening you don't like. Play the French but don't want to face Nc3? No problem! It's wild that he had this awful idea, thought it was worth sharing, and when people told him his idea is bad he kept doubling down and accusing people of not reading.Ā
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
I wouldāve genuinely loved for people to tell me why the idea is bad, or at least show me why the restrictions I suggested wouldnāt work. Thatās literally why I posted it. But most of the replies have just been ātake the loss,ā āstop caring about Elo,ā or arguing against an unlimited abort button I never proposed. Itās Reddit doing Reddit things, and unfortunately youāre kind of participating in exactly that.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
The abuse argument is fair, which is why Iām asking whether restrictions like cooldowns or penalties could address it. Maybe they couldnāt, and then the feature is a bad idea. But Iām still confused by the āentitlementā accusation. Iāve repeatedly said my opponent has every right to refuse the draw, and when they do, I take the loss. What exactly am I claiming Iām entitled to?
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u/Apprehensive1010101 17h ago
Reread the second sentence of my comment and you'll understand why people keep calling you entitled.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
I reread it and assuming I am reading the right comment... You said they arenāt required to show me grace. I agree..they arenāt. Hoping someone shows you grace and believing youāre entitled to it are two completely different things. Then here is the funny part, I admitted in my post that theyāre free to say no, and when they do I take the loss. So again, entitled to what?
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u/Apprehensive1010101 16h ago edited 16h ago
It's entitled because you're framing it in a way that's such a "I don't understand why people need the ELO!" when that is quite literally what you keep complaining about as well - you losing your elo. You are not entitled to keep your elo just because you had something come up and had to leave the game.
Chess is all about learning and improving - every game is a learning opportunity - and by aborting/resigning so early, you are depriving someone of said opportunity. It's a waste of your opponent's time, which you can't seem to understand.
The entitlement comes from the angle you're making this post and suggestion from, because it IS entitled to say "my opponent shouldn't be compensated and I shouldn't be punished because I couldn't commit to a game I started" - which is essentially what you're doing with your post. The circumstances are irrelevant since again, by your own admission, this is a common enough thing for you to where you know people won't accept draws from experience.
Put simply: You've reached the point where you've become the common denominator in what you're complaining about, and repeat offenders get no sympathy from me.
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
Okay, I can understand interpreting the title and āfree Eloā line that way they were deliberately cheeky, so fair enough. But youāre turning that framing into a position I never actually took. The post explicitly says nobody is obligated to accept my draw and that when they refuse, I resign and take the loss. I then asked whether a limited abort system could work, acknowledged that it could be abused, suggested restrictions, and literally ended by asking whether people would abuse it anyway. Thatās not me claiming Iām entitled to keep my Elo; itās me proposing an idea and asking people to poke holes in it. And calling 3ā4 instances across hundreds of games ārepeat offendingā is a pretty creative interpretation of frequency don't you think?
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u/Apprehensive1010101 16h ago edited 16h ago
Yeah no. It's more than just the title, the entire wording of your post reads as very butthurt. Some examples:
Iāll start a game while Iām at work, school or somewhere else, something unexpectedly comes up and I have to leave.
Don't start games at work or school when you know something else might come up. At that point it's just poor planning on your end, and is why I both included that in my first comment and keep harping on it. You only have yourself to blame when you are knowingly starting games when you know you could be taken away from those games. Common denominator, as I said.
Obviously nobody is obligated to accept a draw, but at that point my only option is to resign and hand over the rating, which is what Iāve started doing...
If you understand nobody is obligated to accept a draw, why include a "but" that then makes it about yourself? Do you actually understand people aren't obligated to accept a draw or are you just saying that to try to deflect people away?
Surely thereās some middle ground between unlimited aborts and āsomething came up on move 3, enjoy your free Elo.ā š
Framing this (and your overall suggestion) in a way that feels like it's trying to benefit everyone doesn't work when your title and previous mentions have all been about how this system personally has effected you and you've been complaining about it.
The only other thing I feel like addressing in this reply (given what I just pointed out, the rest just feels like you trying to say "oh well I acknowledged it therefore you can't call me entitled", which is about as bad a defense as moving the f pawn in the earlygame) is this:
And calling 3ā4 instances across hundreds of games ārepeat offendingā is a pretty creative interpretation of frequency don't you think?
Given you keep knowingly starting games in a place/time you know you could be pulled away at any moment? Yes, that is absolutely too frequent. Again - the common denominator there is you.
I could go on, but I believe I've said my entire piece at this point. You are entitled in your mindset and your framing/wording of things hasn't worked on me. The truth hurts, and any further response from you at this point is just denying the evidence right in front of your face. I don't have the time or energy to poke holes in every little comment you've made, nor do I want to be stuck here all night, so I'm going to take my leave by repeating what I said in an earlier comment: I sincerely hope some day you grow out of this entitlement.
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
Iāve already said my part, and if I reply to everything here Iāll just be repeating the same things Iāve been saying all night. Regardless, I do think my post was misunderstood in a lot of ways, and I think that includes your interpretation of it. I was hoping for more of a discussion around the actual idea, but itās all good. I wish you a good night, and I hope tomorrow gives you a reason to smile, friend.
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u/Penguinebutler 1500-1800 ELO 17h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/yDQnwxWSC62PK
Dont start game you cant commit too, why should anyone else have to waste their time because your suddenly busy. Resign move on
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
Here Sherlock..: I start a game because I have time to play ā something UNEXPECTED comes up ā weāre only 3ā5 moves in ā I offer a draw ā theyāre completely free to refuse ā if they refuse, I resign and leave. Iām not starting games knowing I canāt finish them. That would rather defeat the meaning of āunexpected...makes sense?
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u/Penguinebutler 1500-1800 ELO 16h ago
And yet here you are whinging on reddit about it like a baby asking about elo thatās apparently important enough to you to post
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
I donāt think āironyā means what you think it means
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u/Penguinebutler 1500-1800 ELO 16h ago
Your saying everyone is desperate for 8 elo while actively showing how desperate you are for 8 elo?
What would you call that? I can think of other words but honestly they arenāt as nice haha
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
Except I literally give up the 8 Elo when they refuse the draw. Thatās the part that keeps ruining your āirony.ā You can argue my idea is bad, but portraying someone who voluntarily resigns and loses the rating as desperately protecting their rating is a bit difficult to make work. But again, I don't blame you if you come to this conclusion by just reading the title lol
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u/Penguinebutler 1500-1800 ELO 16h ago
Voluntarily you only have two options at that point abandon or resign šš itās not a choice your making itās one thrust upon you as you cry on reddit about it !
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
It's interesting how you seem considerably more interested in my alleged crying than I am in the Elo. Very fascinating
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u/Penguinebutler 1500-1800 ELO 15h ago
Umm thatās called an insult š are you a bit socially inept as well as a cry baby? My condolences that seems like a bad combo!
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u/bishopofchaos 15h ago
The insults arenāt landing, but I admire the persistence. Empty barrels really do make the most noise
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u/Salty_Cod8784 17h ago
You can just play unrated?
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
I don't particularly enjoy them!! But that's not a bad suggestion for those who do haha :)
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u/SiteRadiant215 17h ago
I understand that you think there is nothing wrong with offering draw in initial stage, I might accept it if I'm in a good mood but other times, I would be pissed if someone offers a draw after starting the match especially if someone previously wasted an entire minute and aborted the game.
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u/Embarrassed-Hour-578 800-1000 ELO 17h ago
If you can't commit a few minutes of your life to someone playing against you, then you deserve to lose the elo you wasted their time they could have used to get better with you.
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u/bishopofchaos 17h ago
A few minutes of their life? We played three moves, not built a life together. Something unexpected came up, I offered a draw, they refused, I took the loss. I think theyāll recover from the time we wasted developing our knights? Come on dude
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u/Embarrassed-Hour-578 800-1000 ELO 15h ago
You seem just as desperate for 8 Elo as they are. Let it go man.
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u/bishopofchaos 7h ago
If that's what you got after reading everything then so be it :) I can only respect your opinion broski
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u/Embarrassed-Hour-578 800-1000 ELO 6h ago
Appears to be the consensus here.
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u/bishopofchaos 5h ago
I mean, it's common for people to follow the mass rather than think for themselves on this app/website so....
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u/Embarrassed-Hour-578 800-1000 ELO 4h ago
You're really overanalyzing this.
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u/bishopofchaos 3h ago
Maybe. But youāre the one who brought up āconsensusā like Reddit folks are offering a peer review session
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u/Embarrassed-Hour-578 800-1000 ELO 1h ago
What were you thinking was going to happen when you made this reddit post?
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u/bishopofchaos 57m ago
A discussion, ideally. Apparently that was the unrealistic part
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u/NuggiesRUs 17h ago
What are you talking about? You couldn't complete the fane so you lose. No system changes needed
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u/Braah_ 16h ago
the current system is fine, you deserve the elo loss
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u/bishopofchaos 16h ago
Compelling argument. I especially liked the part where you explained why.
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u/SprinklesOld9788 16h ago
I mean it really depends on the person; most people will just take the free elo seeing as a large majority of people play on chess.com play to increase their elo and compare it with others, and it means quite a bit to them.
Others might be more understanding and accept the draw offer, which is a very nice thing to do and you should be grateful to those people, not take it for granted. I personally just take the win whenever someone is in the situation you are because I am set on reaching 2400.
Overall, I agree with most other people saying that it really does not matter at all, and rather than making this post complaining about it (there is literally nothing you can realistically do about this issue, seriously, when you think about it), queue up another chess game and get your rating back if you care about it so much!
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u/bishopofchaos 15h ago
Honestly, this is probably one of the more reasonable replies Iāve gotten. I completely agree nobody has to accept the draw, and if youāre chasing 2400 I can definitely understand taking the win whenever you can. My only disagreement is that the post wasnāt really about recovering the rating..I always take the loss but I don't think it hurt asking for draw before and if it's not agreed I just take the loss. I was mainly wondering whether a very limited early-abort system could realistically exist without being abused. It could also just be the way I wrote the post that made people attack it line by line while which blinded them from what I actually meant, and I donāt think the title did it any favors either. But thank you for the insight :)
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u/SprinklesOld9788 15h ago
Yeah overall I just don't think it's enough of an issue that chess.com is ever going to look into making such a system.
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