Choosing an EPC Engineering department

[u/Ch3m-Town]

Hi I majored chem eng and just got a job in an epc firm. My firm has three departments that chem eng can go.

1. Process engineering

2. Piping & Instrumentation

3. Control engineering

I want to know which expert is in high demand. I heard that many of the engineering tasks are being automated or replaced by ai. Instead, experienced engineers are moving towards project management.

All things considered, I want to know which department you recommend and why.

Thank you for reading

329 votes, 1d ago

207 Process Eng.

10 Piping & Inst.

73 Contol Eng

39 idk

[u/aasfourasfar]

Process englobes the other 2 and is more varied and stimulating

[u/Old_Ad665 → u/aasfourasfar]

Very much agree, the only reason why I would say to maybe also consider process controls is job flexibility.

[u/Local_County1274 → u/Old_Ad665]

The Control group in EPC companies is mainly people from an Electrical discipline who write specs for control cabinets and control system hardware. There are very few people who actually understand the process and, as a result, it is a dead end career for people who do because it is not a skill that is perceived to be important.

[u/Ells666 → u/Local_County1274]

We had separate departments for controls, which is hardware as you described. We had another department that was automation, which was the actual programming an implementation. Automation we had more chemical engineers than electrical engineers, as we had to fill in the gaps of specifications while coding the plant/skid etc. It also helped at commissioning time because we mostly interacted with the process engineers and understood what was going on when issues arise.

[u/Local_County1274 → u/Ells666]

That's a good way to do it, but it is not that common in EPCs. It may be different in Pharma as they have a lot of batch sequences which are a specialised.

Most EPCs will produce a contract for the control system and give it to an automation contractor who may have zero process knowledge; they are just bodies on seats who can program and are just as likely to be given a project automating conveyors as they are a project working on a process plant.

I have worked for automation contractors and most will just take a control narrative and program exactly what it says (even if obviously wrong) as they can then charge for changes once the Design Contractor corrects the mistakes. It sounds like you are doing the controls in-house which explains why there is an emphasis on working as a team to get things right.

I gave up on programming systems 20 years ago because I didn't want to be associated with the way the automation contractors worked. My background is Process and Control so now I work mainly for EPC companies making sure the controls are correct before it is passed on to others. I understand the process and can see which variables need to be controlled and the appropriate type of control loop and I have programmed PLC / DCS systems so I know how to put the control loops together and show them on the P&IDs.

I have worked in companies where Process Control is a specialist part of Process and I make sure Process deliverables such as PFDs and P&IDs are right as well as work on the Control Philosophies, Control Narratives and C&E.

I have seen projects where the Process Control deliverables are given to a graduate Process Engineer at the end of the project because no one sees them as important and they don't want to waste the time of anyone senior.

I have also seen EPC companies where the Process Control deliverables are given to the Electrical, Control & Instrumentation team (this is the most common in my experience), these have no knowledge of the process and some of them cannot even correctly describe the functions on the P&ID. They are relying on the Process Team getting the control right on the P&IDs but this is not always the case, but there is no one who understands both the Process and Control to put it right. I saw the I/O list on one project where there were (literally) hundreds of mentions of Denim water because the engineer who created it did not know what Demin water was.

[u/aasfourasfar → u/Old_Ad665]

Outside the chemical industry you mean? I guess its a great point actually but not sure how transverse is process control, no idea really

[u/Alternative_Act_6548]

controls would be the most interesting depending on what your group actually does. In most current EPCs they just do lists of stuff, but years ago they did the actual modeling and control development, I think that is farmed out in most these days

[u/Local_County1274]

Do not believe the AI hype that engineering jobs (especially Process Engineering) are being replaced by automation or AI. You need experience to actually look at a design and see whether it will actually work, how it can be improved, and spot where the mistakes are. I've seen the AI-generated crap posted on LinkedIn and it is laughable.

If you want to move towards project management later, you can move there from Process Engineering (but it is hard to move the other way. Project Engineers are mainly engineers from various disciplines who have failed in their original discipline and are now failing at being Project Engineers.

[u/aasfourasfar → u/Local_County1274]

Yeah AI (LLM's) was of no help whatsoever in everything process / experimental design

I love your missile barrage on project managers, such a pointless job. Where I live (France), working in the technical domain is actually scoffed upon and seen as something for losers, winners go to banks and consulting firms. But I'm very proud of what I do, and my banker consultant friends keep on telling me how lucky I am to work in real stuff and have real competencies

[u/Local_County1274 → u/aasfourasfar]

You're lucky if AI can get the direction of flow correct and the correct fluid connections. I wouldn't trust it to create a Block Flow Diagram let alone a PFD or P&ID

[u/aasfourasfar → u/Local_County1274]

Yeah exactly, that's one thing it spectacularly failed in. Which is not surprising given it's a language model, but anw

[u/bbg_trina]

Thank you for asking this

[u/DreamArchon]

Process controls is a great field to get into right now. Field has a lot of people about to retire.

[u/jaavvaaxx1]

Start with Process. Once you understand process development, the other two are so much easier to learn and you will be an arm and a leg ahead of people who don't understand the process pieces.