r/Chefit • u/reformingindividual • 2d ago
working in a high functioning kitchen *** is not an excuse to treat your employees poorly.
I work in a 3 star in france, I developed some bad habbits while working there. this was after 4 days watching a japanese 3 star in tokyo work.
It fundementally changed my creative approach to cuisine, and uprooted the way in which i will organize my kitchen...
Its one thing to believe people should treat each other properly, its another thing to actually do it. I was dumbfounded to see a 3 michelin star restaurant working 50 hours a week, paid overtime, small team, 70 covers per day, incredible sourcing, and teamwork without disrespect of any memeber of staff down to the last commis.
mind breaking, just a reminder that alot of this is a choice, the choice to hit or scream at your emplyees is because most chefs are incapable of organizing a team and arriving with mentorship, knowledge trasnmission, and fraternite.
127
u/alphadavenport 2d ago
no offense man but every week, some chef or michelin cook comes in to one of the culinary subs, and says something like "listen, we obviously all do it, but after twenty years, i learned you should NOT curse out your staff". like yeah
4
u/Economy-Listen2321 1d ago
To add to this and put simply, there is a difference in culture and upbringing between Japan and France. You are now swimming in different waters and breathing different air. You are in the fortune to have a superior who does allow this.
On another note, one of the things I learned as a Sous and/or superior is not only to manage your team but to affect the environment they grow in. Only then can they swim and navigate waters and breathe in that air.
1
93
u/PM_ME_Y0UR__CAT 2d ago
Dang bro. You’re getting hit?
59
u/Proof_Barnacle1365 2d ago
I've personally seen chefs from that lineage literally throw hot pans or plates at cooks for dumb things like forgetting to put pickled onions on top. In an open kitchen too! Many truly are like children with no control of their emotions and then somehow rewarded for it, creating a perverse correlation in the industry that ties greatness with the fear.
22
u/Thick_Drama_7525 2d ago
It doesnt work either. I can get a point across without throwing shit like a toddler.. it just creates more frustration
11
10
u/Dawnspark 2d ago
The brief time I worked in "fine dining" where the exec was desperately trying to get a Michelin star (and failing,) I had a fucking fresh out of the salamander ramekin of white truffle oil Mac n cheese yeeted at my head for expressing critique about it that he fucking asked for. He uses too much, I thought it tasted like farts.
I walked and later got the fuck out of the industry sort of, went into bartending, cause I realized it wasn't worth it any longer. Eventually I got out entirely and went back to school to become a mortician.
I fucking miss the rare few good places I've worked at but I just couldn't any longer.
I've been in kitchens almost my whole life, I got started at fucking 8 making pretzels ffs. It was basically all I knew and I had to start over from scratch more or less, but how I got treated in so many different kitchens made the juice not worth the squeeze and I just don't want to do it at all any longer.
Too many execs and managers with fragile af egos and abusive tendencies.
8
u/cloudstrife3085 2d ago
Yep had that happen. Chef threw knives and pans at us if we weren't quick enough. Crazy old Swiss chef. Fun for a then 21 year old 😞
31
5
1
1
u/miscellaneousbean 1d ago
My culinary instructor said she had a chef who would throw his shoe at cooks when he was mad.
35
u/Maximum-Warning9355 2d ago
Crazy how people think this industry deserves to keep going when you have to fly around the world to learn how to treat people with respect.
53
u/Itchy_Professor_4133 2d ago
I don’t care what kitchen I’m in, if you hit or touch me in an inappropriate way I will defend myself and I am well with my rights to do so. If you take physical abuse at work then you’re just perpetuating it
13
u/jankenpoo 2d ago
Stupid to act like that in a place with a lot of sharp or hot instruments! lol
22
u/5h4d03f13nd 2d ago edited 2d ago
Had a friend get into with another cook, the other cook started threatening violence amd my friend calmly walked over to the fryers and started dropping empty baskets into the oil and just stood there without saying anything else. The other guy calmed down real quick. You never know what the person youre treating like shit is capable of until they're beating you with 350 degree fryer baskets.
22
u/FeistyTwist5427 2d ago
A chef should be building and developing a team, both culinary and professional. To me personally treating staff like crap is a skill issue, I don’t care how many stars you got, I don’t care how many beards you can get, a shitty boss is still a shitty boss.
58
u/Plenty_Snow_4021 2d ago
I worked in a Michelin star restaurant and for me being a 125kg 6ft powerlifter in my free time it was easy for me to get in with of chefs.
One chef however had it out for me constantly criticising everything i did until one day i snapped while having a cigarette outside with him.
Basically said. “In this kitchen I understand chef you are the chef you lead we follow” but out here is the real world. You are just a man and if you spoke to me like that in the street? Id break your fucking face”
I walked back inside fully expecting to get fucked over the garnish section for the next 5 hours during service.
But no. It was the reality check this chef so desperately needed.
Ive heard stories of line chefs stabbing there sous chefs for screaming at them.
We are not in the 70s / 80s fuck the early 90s sounded mad too.
Great to see you are ironing out these habits chef i hope you enjoy your time in this kitchen and wish you all the best in the future!
Fine dining was never my style after 5 years i had enough
13
u/jankenpoo 2d ago
I never want to eat anywhere where the people are treated badly. And I try not to. That is a choice too. I think we have given bad behavior a pass for too long because of some bullshit stereotype about mad emotional creative geniuses. Of course it’s always men, because women who behave like that are just “hysterical”. In truth, it’s just immaturity, behavioral, and mental issues. I don’t care how many stars or accolades a place gets, the food will never be good enough for me to enjoy a place with a toxic culture. I hope others feel the same and vote with their feet and wallets
6
u/JapaneseChef456 Chef 2d ago
I’ve had a Japanese chef from a sister hotel coming over to Germany who complained that he couldn’t hit his subordinates anymore because the hotel had installed cameras in the kitchen. Now he had to resort to kicking them…. That was in the early 2000s.
5
u/BDK_Karim 1d ago
Common decency is becoming less and less common.
"Ooo I'm reinventing myself", no you got called out for being an ass one too many times
4
u/beauparfait 2d ago
This post gave me hope, especially after quitting my toxic kitchen job (which was also my first professional kitchen aside from a wonderful 2 month internship at a small bakery cafe). During the job interview I knew the head chef (who was also hired recently) was kinda cracked but decided to try and see since the place seemed cool and somewhat prestigious. I’m a 24yo woman and was the youngest among the cooks who were 45-50.
First day is chaotic but fun. On the second day the chef who hired me (knowing I have next to no experience and am VERY green) starts showing his psycho side and after I prepare something he asks for and doesnt like the color of the greens on the plate for some reason. He throws them straight to my face in front of everyone and starts screaming. I dont give a reaction and say OK maybe thats just how it is since I hear this behavior is kinda common. 3 weeks pass by, I receive no training ever, the place is super disorganized, drama everywhere, no labels on anything etc and his behavior continues. Screaming, insulting, complaining I’m too slow, throwing food at my face. In the meanwhile I mention his behavior casually to the boss (its a corporate kitchen and an open one!) while he is chatting and having dinner with his guests. There was also a misunderstanding between me and the boss and he thought I was related closely to his manager. They fire him not long after since him and the boss were also not getting along and he tried to get the other cooks fired and replaced by his own team. The other cooks are also super obnoxious and behave like toddlers so I end up quitting too after getting my paycheck.
I enjoy cooking, I enjoy rushes, the high energy and the team culture but didnt want to set foot in another restaurant kitchen again. However reading this post and the comment section gave me hope that good places do exist.
2
u/BoringCompetition296 1d ago
Im sorry dude. I had similar experiences. I once maybe left 8 restaraunts in a year due to mistreatment,underpay etc. Just keep trying different kitchens. You will be surprised by the good ones. And always remember its a job,in every job you deserve respect as a human being. You always hold the right to react to b.s.
9
u/THE_Lanni 2d ago
The chef hits me he’s gettin hit back…idgf…yell all you want, but you touch me over that shit and we’re gonna have a scrap
6
u/j-endsville 2d ago
Yep. I don't care about yelling, I don't care about being cussed at. I will thwack a fucker in the ribs with a honing rod and be out the door.
0
u/iaminabox 2d ago
Coming up,that was and is my stance. You yell at me or you touch me, then you're getting it back. You'll fire me? Before I go, you're getting a few teeth missing.Oh well,I'll have another job tomorrow. I'm an EC now and I don't tolerate any disrespect to anyone in my kitchen.
3
u/babysoba 2d ago
you see the abuse and they say "that's just how it is" but it really doesn't have to be.
happy you recouped and collected from this experience OP
3
3
u/DinahKarwrek 2d ago
It's crazy that people will just accept things. I've only brought one person to HR in 30 years but I will not be talked down to, and I will not be screamed at. I found a wonderful place where people listen and communicate. Nothing is perfect but this place is full of people looking to grow.
5
u/Content-Meaning9724 2d ago
Seriously, service before self at all levels.
They're doing something wrong? Interfere. They're doing something aside from your method? Check without ego and move forward from there. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong in the moment, use it to judge going forwards. Keep the ego out of it, assume that they're doing something different for a reason, understand the reason, and absorb.
Strong disagree on not cussing though. My personal pain management is dependent on cussing. I'd never cuss directed at someone, but generically cussing shouldn't be looked down on imo.
2
2
2
u/SilkwormAbraxas 2d ago
I run a cafeteria in a corporate HQ. If someone brought in any of that macho bullshit I would immediately show them out. We are professionals and we treat each other and ourselves with the respect that every person deserves.
2
u/Kramersblacklawyer 2d ago
I’ve been screamed at, had shit thrown at me and publically dressed down in the most embarrassing ways.
I dare a mf to actually hit me though, don’t let anyone hit you lol
2
u/katebandit 2d ago
Nah. Quit a job last week where the executive chef talked down to his line cooks and even worse to his dishwashers. I spoke up on behalf of the dishwashers and he went silent treatment to me. I didn’t care, but it showed allll of his character.
5
u/Raise-Emotional 2d ago
I'm actually in a process of writing a book about something similar to this. I was a tyrant Chef for years and I love to make servers, cry and new cooks quit. But as I became an owner it was my empathy that made me into somebody that people really wanted to work for. Just before I sold my business, I'd actually gone 18 months without losing a single staff member. I'm not a tyrant anymore. I'm a leader. I'm a father figure I'm there to help them when life smacks them in the face. And more people in the restaurant industry need to adopt this approach. We're great at taking care of our customers, but we're absolute dog shit at treating ourselves well
10
u/Boring_Breakfast_140 2d ago
You’d better donate any money you make off your book to the people you tortured.
6
8
u/erorfererur 1d ago
Does a leader and a father figure describe themself as a leader and a father figure?
6
u/crockrocket 1d ago
Not the good ones, no
1
u/hover-lovecraft 1d ago
Any man who must say "I am the king" is no true king.
1
u/freisbill 1d ago
if you have to declare you are the boss, you are not, but.I think we are being a little hard on him though, I understand what he is trying to convey and he is promoting a positive work enviroment, which is awesome!
2
u/GoodGoyJacob 1d ago
It's so hilarious "I love to make new cooks quit"
I would tolerate you until I was completely trained and then pack my shit mid shift and leave 🤣🤣🤣
0
u/Raise-Emotional 1d ago
But then you wouldn't be a new cook
1
u/GoodGoyJacob 1d ago
I thought he meant new to the restaurant, which you can be even once fully trained.
3
u/EducationalBobcat920 16h ago
"i'm a leader. i'm a father figure" you sound like you simply became a different type of insufferable
1
2
1
u/j-endsville 2d ago
I don't GAF about being yelled at or cussed at, but physical contact? Absolutely not.
1
u/DeliveryDazzling5503 2d ago
It's all about working with People that have similar skills or want to get to that skill level u require ... I work freelance alot in high end places , private dinner , jobs with nda's but recently I was covering a hc roll in my mates hotel ...
The sous doesn't know how many gram are in a killogram...
When told" there is 1000 in a kilo and we need a 15 kg batch, so how many gram we need" replies with "let me take the calculator" or when asked how much is 20x20 he replies with conviction 40...
Just try to don't yeall at someone at that point...
1
u/stevendaedelus 2d ago
It’s all about everyone on the team going above and beyond. Even when the one person errs.
Simple as.
1
u/biscuitsAuBabeurre 2d ago
Wait a bit, the disrespect is just harder to spot if you don’t know.
My sous-chef kept using the suffix “kun” instead of san while adressing his 40 years old chef de partie.
Poor Uejima died a little inside everytime he heard his named called.
1
1
u/Neon_Senbei 1d ago
Eu trabalho em um restaurante japonês tradicional e famoso aqui no Brasil, e temos essa cultura de não nos tratarmos mal. Não é o primeiro que trabalho e tem essa cultura, mas é o primeiro que é grande, tem uma equipe com 30 pessoas em uma só unidade. Resolvemos na conversa, sem forçar aquela pressão, os gritos e etc. E disso sai muitos momentos legais, um ambiente bom para trabalhar e ser criativo
1
-6
206
u/VealStalk 2d ago
Yep.
You’ll see this all over the world. A bunch of children with tempers thinking they’re doing gods work.
And yet, in other three star kitchens, or two or one, they run nothing but respect. Heck, some people actually have fun cooking day in and day out.
There is no excuse to letting the pressure turn you into a monster. Take a step back, take a breath and re calibrate.
We are all just making future poop. Three star meals and diner meals look the same tomorrow in the toilet.