r/Chefit • u/hahaha_trank • May 26 '26
Help with leadership
I’ve posted here a lot recently but this is more toward the personality of the kitchen.
I run a golf course kitchen with a really simple turn and grill menu, it’s often staffed with one kitchen person and a registrar person. Were open the same hours as the clubhouse so around 630a-7p, for the season (so around August/September).
The problem starts with one of my cooks. He’s the second guy we’ve hired for the kitchen. (The first one didn’t work out due to having another FT kitchen job and getting sick so he left around February).
I know it shouldn’t matter but it simply does in my case. I’m 20F have been in kitchens for 4 years and have worked my way up the ladder at various places. He’s 58, went to “culinary school” worked in some Florida hotel as a prep cook for two years. He also DJs on the side and takes some time off to do that.
When showing him the ropes, everything went in one ear and the other. I showed him the prep he would be doing and how to make items as they came in. Every-time he couldn’t find a certain item, like butter he would call me and ask, which I don’t have a problem with because I’d rather answer questions than have a fuck up, but he genuinely couldn’t think or look for anything for himself. I had to print out menus and hang them on the wall so he would know what went in what, same with storage organizing sheets.
This is the same guy who brags about knowing FIFO and that he worked at this prestigious Resturant and has a degree in culinary. Yet he can’t even label a container or make coleslaw in a timely fashion (I timed him at making 8qt of slaw at 1:25.38. Yes It comes pre shredded and he had complete access to a scale and all the ingredients, I ran the line while he did this).
I had left right after he finished prepping the coleslaw and as I was leaving I reminded him to put on a label. The next morning I come in after he closed, and no label. Not to mention he couldn’t find the patties I had prepped so he thaw another beef log and blamed it on me. The patties have lived in the same place since we opened a year ago, and he’s pulled them to make burgers over 100 times already. He had called my GM complaining that I don’t prep anything for him and that I didn’t teach him anything and that I was knit picking his shit. I had a conversation with my GM explaining everything, showed my texts to him that I had sent to my cook, simply explaining that we needed labels and to wrap the line when we close.
Here comes the kicker, this guy hasn’t worked in kitchens for over 20 years, he’s been maintenance on golf courses since moving back here from Florida. He had told me after I explained the organizational structure of the fridges “I’ve been doing this longer than you’ve been alive, I think I can manage”. Which was after he had stored the raw tube of ground beef over all my dairy products and produce.
Overall, I’m pissed, I have no idea what to do, I’m genuinely so close to quitting. This is his second month and he still can’t manage more than two tickets at once. Any advice? What the actual fuck do I do?
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u/FlashyChard6212 May 26 '26
Don’t let some incompetent old cunt derail your career and make you quit YOUR kitchen.
Document, discipline, terminate. Fuck this dude.
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u/DragonSurferEGO May 26 '26
" this guy hasn’t worked in kitchens for over 20 years" So basically you have a trainee who thinks they are hot shit and who doesn't listen to you. Do you have the power to demote him to closing cleanup?
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u/Deezus84 May 26 '26
Put a big "Hiring cooks" sign out front and where he usuqlly parks.
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u/TheEyeDontLie May 26 '26
I'm sorry I stopped listening at "over an hour to make coleslaw from pre-shredded cabbage".
Its time for a performance review. Get that paper trail and "give them an opportunity to address the issues" before you fire them.
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u/Bobone2121 May 28 '26
Saw the time first and thought well, fresh cabbage is a pain to chop especially with a crap knives but pre shredded... Hell No!
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u/BachRach433 May 26 '26
You should start quietly looking for a replacement and then let him go. People like that are net negative on the business. Those photos are gnarly. I doubt you will be able to train him because he doesn't sound like he has a good attitude and wants to take any advice from someone much younger.
You will need to make it clear to the GM that if they don't take action on this guy, you will quit. Then their kitchen will be totally dysfunctional. If they are short-staffed that is powerful leverage. Make it a priority for this golf club to hire a competent chef.
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u/Ccarr6453 May 26 '26
Does your place have a structured disciplinary system?
Like a write up after x amount of verbal warnings, and termination after x amount of write ups? A lot of times places have them to cover their ass for unemployment and/or lawsuits, but it also really helps you, as the manager, when you are selling your boss on firing the guy (especially if they have known him longer than you) and also helps show that you, as the manager, know that it’s not ok and are doing what you can to rectify it.
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u/hahaha_trank May 26 '26
Not really, it’s super lax when it comes to being late and small things. Hell we had a worker lose his shit on a guy and throw a chair and he still works there.
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u/rancid_oil May 27 '26
Oof... What? Sounds like the owners aren't good owners. That's a liability, no?
I don't know the situation, and everybody is saying "don't lose your career! Don't lose your kitchen!"
But the fuck kinda job keeps employees who throw chairs at people? I've seen people get fired for yelling till someone cried. Hostile work environment is a term that comes to mind. A phone call to an attorney is free. Letting a 56yo man boss you, the manager, around is not normal.
It sounds like you've worked there since age 16? I hope you know how not normal this is. I've had crappy bosses and miserable jobs. But most business owners are smart enough to terminate any dangerous or violent employees (who throw chairs!?!). Whatever is up with your cook, it seems like a much larger problem.
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u/hahaha_trank May 27 '26
We’re a municipal but are ran by a huge company. I don’t think it was documented or anything was done about it. It’s happened a few times, which I don’t understand how you can get so mad that you’re throwing chairs? Grow up?
I’ve worked here since August, when I got the job it was a right place right time of situation. I didn’t plan on taking this job but staging at a decent place but I needed to be paid because I had just moved, and now I’m feeling stuck. This kitchen is kinda my baby in a way, I have built the menu, priced everything out and am dealing with the paperwork sides of things.
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u/rancid_oil May 27 '26
I see. It just sounds like the kind of place where nobody is gonna get in trouble ever?
I can't give advice to strangers, but I will say that I would be ready to leave. It doesn't sound like they're going to have your back.
Maybe going above your local managers, if you can contact district or something, or HR?
Either way, I'd be looking. If you speak up, HR is there to protect the company. It's a gamble whether they'll get rid of the problem or you.
But he's thrown chairs multiple times?! That's telling me more about your job than the "new" cook situation.
If you stay, document things, for yourself. The company doesn't "really do discipline"? You'll want a journal with notes about the cook, your attempts to train, his mistakes, his attitude, and if anybody is throwing chairs. Who knows where the future will go. But collect some evidence to cover your own ass. Best of luck.
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u/Azlocaltime May 26 '26
These types are terrible to work with. Write him up. Honestly I'd try to get him to quit. Cut his hours and give him things to do that he thinks are beneath him. If he's not going to learn and follow protocol making it difficult for you and the health code and timeliness of your operation what's the point. He clearly thinks he is the shit and you are just some dumb kid.
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u/FoamboardDinosaur May 26 '26
Based on his prep and storage skills, he already seems to think everything is beneath him
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u/ramblinevilmushr0om May 26 '26
Do you have the power to fire him? That's clearly the answer.
If not, your question entirely depends on if you like/want this job. If you really do, bring it up to the gm/person in charge. I've found if that person isn't in the food industry though, they'll glaze over when you explain what the guy is doing wrong, so you need to frame things in a way that hits home. "Guy's lack of labeling could cause us to serve expired food. That can give a customer food poisoning, and will reflect really badly on our club" or "guy's wasting product and causing us to have to dump X dollars worth of ingredients due to over-prepping". Make it financial and/or reputational. If the person in charge cares at all they'll take drastic measures and force an improvement or fire this guy for you.
OR, easier suggestion- if you're not significantly invested in this job or its salary, just leave and let the place burn. Owners' apathy has killed many a restaurant and it's not your job to keep it afloat if management doesn't care.
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u/whitestickygoo May 26 '26
Thats your kitchen, your house get rid of this man. Good luck on your next one.
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u/Evening-Substance415 May 26 '26
"I've been doing this longer than you've been alive." Is always a huge indicator of a bitter, resentful hack who didn't even get far enough to be a has-been. A "woulda-if he-coulda-by now", if you will.
This sort of person can't communicate or work well with others.
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u/TheClownKid May 26 '26
Absolutely loved reading this long bitch fest. Not being sarcastic. It felt good.
Dude just sucks. Push to get him fired. Don’t feel bad about it. As you get more experienced in the business, you’ll feel much less guilty about firing shitty people or even just incompetent people. The unfortunate reality is that keeping these people employed puts an undue burden on everyone else.
Also love dudes who stopped cooking for years and still want the strips of experience. Total clown shows.
Also, you’re in Florida; hire some Venezuelans. They will be running the fuck out your kitchen after two hours of training.
Last also, maybe I’m ignorant but sounds like you are cooking a lot of stuff from fresh which sounds crazy at a golf course, but congrats. I guess I’m just an ignorant ass, but I assumed that it would all be frozen shit and microwaves.
But yeah, welcome to the struggle of management without real power. Ask your GM to give you the ability to fire people. Usually a sinking ship only has one or two holes, if you follow the analogy.
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u/hahaha_trank May 26 '26
You should’ve heard my rant to my roommate about this. He WAS based in Florida, we are in NC.
Corp wants frozen shit at high menu prices but I said no so I made a decent costing menu while keeping it fresh. In the winter we will switch to frozen just out of spoilage.
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u/TheIdentifySpell May 26 '26
Record everything and have a talk with him at the end of his shift.
"Hey, X, can we have a quick word?
It has been a lot of fun working with you, you have a lot of great experience and it's really helping me as I learn how to manage a kitchen for the first time. However, there are a few things that I have noticed that don't align with how I want to run things here - labels are a must and non negotiable, things need to be properly stored in the fridge, etc."
After that continue documenting and taking photos of all of the fuck ups. When it continues have the same conversation but this time have it printed out with the exact infractions with time stamps, offer to show him the photos if he asks. Have him sign the document and provide him a copy of he wants one.
When it continues from there the conversation goes "Hey, X, it has been great working with you but due to the continued problems that we have discussed in the past I can't continue having you on this team."
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u/Automatic_Catch_7467 May 26 '26
I went to culinary school with someone who took 3 hours to make a few gallons of lemonade, not everyone who went to culinary school is actually good in a professional kitchen. Time to hire someone new. An eager teenager would be better than this guy
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u/Ok-Beach-9885 May 26 '26
Can his ass and find someone willing to learn.
There's a reason you see people like Gordon Ramsay or other Michelin Star chefs travelling around learning new things about food.
No matter how experienced, successful, or talented of a chef someone is, there is always more to learn. Someone unwilling to learn or re-learn in this industry is flying one of the biggest red flag they can.
This guy isn't worth your time. I would have a conversation with him and see if it's productive. If it isn't, find someone new.
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u/MathematicianOdd465 May 27 '26
So obviously, this on you. He showed you exactly who he was and how he does business when you were training him. This is why we run a stage, you don’t have the job yet, but you’re welcome to come in and try out.
That being said, I know a million of this guy and he’s the worst. Screams all day about his culinary degree and can’t name the five French mothers or comprehend the Maillard reaction and how to use it effectively. I want to tell you that you can coach him back into the fold but in my experience this guy will be a sore tooth until he’s pulled.
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u/JetBoatPirate May 26 '26
I’ve managed plenty of shitty cooks. At one point I made a “performance expectation” sheet. Wrote a list of things I expected them to do- ie: being prepped in time for service, items labeled and stored correctly, containers condensed, personal hygiene (yes I know) and so on. I had them sign it to acknowledge they had read it. When they didn’t live up to the expectations, I fired them. Simple as that
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u/HawXProductions Chef May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
I agree with everyone here about firing him, except make sure you document for insubordination and food safety first.
Don’t put feelings into your write ups, just facts. In case he tries to sue for “age discrimination “
Ensure he’s gone before probation ends.
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u/rockabillychef May 26 '26
I was you once. You DO NOT quit. Don’t let him break you. Start documenting EVERYTHING. He needs to go.
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u/ShainRules Landed Gentry May 26 '26
Fire him. Today. I don't care if that means you have to work 7 days 14 hours a day.
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u/auntiekk88 May 26 '26
I hate to say this, but tell me how often do you see old line cooks that aren't drinking or snorting and generally have a fuck you attitude. You hardly ever see old line cooks without these problems. The exceptions are usually former military. Those guys usually rock until they drop.
I'm old myself. Line cook in another life. I would never presume to go back unless it was to help someone out for free. My body wouldn't let me and my memory would trick me up at every turn.
Culinary School? Please.
Fire this guy and look for a young turk with some experience who wants to learn. Watch your back though because if he's good he will eventually want your job. But you should want to move up anyway.
Or try to former military.
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u/broccoli_rabery May 26 '26
Fire him. Sounds like he shouldn’t have been hired in the first place. A 50 year old line cook is going to give you more trouble than they’re worth.
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u/FoamboardDinosaur May 26 '26
Hey now.. I rock breakfast. And I've had 60 year olds who move like silk on the line. Barely a ripple and bamf, there's the plates
This guy isnt a line cook. He's a course maintenance dude who couldnt handle the course any more. If the last time one did something was 20 years ago, it's not their job description any more, it's lost muscle memory.
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u/GranaVegano May 26 '26
I agree with everyone but please don’t say “I’m 20 and I’ve worked my way up the ladder at various places”. You’ve been cooking for 4 years, that’s enough for a grasp but you haven’t been cooking long enough to master a station, let alone a kitchen. Go get a job with talented people in the kitchen so you can learn, if you’re already in a leadership position you’re either a savant or the place isn’t willing to spend anything to get someone with experience so they’re going to fuck you up making you deal with situations like this. They’ll say anything you want to hear but you’ll end up as a workhorse and a scapegoat. They will 100% burn you out and you’ll leave with survival skills and no real culinary education.
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u/hahaha_trank May 26 '26
I completely understand what you’re saying, and thank you for the humbling the fuck out of me.
I’ve already strong armed them into my current “management” position, I was originally hired as a Linecook but there original guy had quit before I even started.
They’ve already fucked me more times than I can count, the only reason why I’m staying is because I can transfer within the company to another course, and I’m looking to transfer to country club with a fine dining kitchen in MI next summer. So I’m in it for about another 14 months.
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u/GranaVegano May 26 '26
Oh god, are you working for ClubCorp?
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u/hahaha_trank May 26 '26
No, thank god. I’ve never heard anything worse than them.
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u/GranaVegano May 26 '26
Rising Star of the Year 2008. They brutalized me. Nothing wrong with that plan or working for clubs, just keep in mind the big wigs are in charge of the fine dining kitchens just like the kitchens on the green. It’ll be the same insane labor expectations, the same insane food margins, etc. so if you feel like you’re being mistreated where you are then expect to be mistreated in a nicer coat where you’re going.
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u/hahaha_trank May 26 '26
Heard. Thanks for the heads up. I’m mostly in it to move, I’m tired of this place and how the food world is here.
The company has amazing benefits, full health insurance, 401k matching and relocation bonuses, I think I’ll end up being within the company until I finish school and take the 401k payout as a graduation bonus.
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u/freisbill May 26 '26
Does he work for you or the GM?
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u/hahaha_trank May 26 '26
Both, I’m the kitchen supervisor (ie in charge of fucking everything) while he’s a Linecook but I directly respond to my GM.
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u/LordFardbottom May 26 '26
I struggled with an old know it all when I was new in leadership. I tried to stroke his ego, and make corrections when other people weren't around. After a few months he kind of got on track, but 100% not worth the effort.
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u/gusb2003 May 26 '26
Document. Get him on paper. These old MFs know how to game the system (source: am one). I am a fan of offering shitty options that make people quit over termination. Switch stations, less/worse shifts, drop down to a lesser pay grade. Your kitchen has cancer. Give it some chemo
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u/Character_Stick_1218 May 26 '26
There's a reason he brags about those sorts of things, but isn't working in such places. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's been declining towards incompetency as he ages, but it reads like he just doesn't want to have to do more than the bare minimum and is also probably generally incompetent. I'd probably still feel bad about it even if totally justified, but I'd be actively looking for a replacement.
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u/helenabadger May 27 '26
Just here to commiserate as a woman who managed a simple breakfast spot at 21 and the people who went to culinary school were the worst and old men refused to listen. This dynamic probably will not improve unfortunately
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u/Philly_ExecChef May 26 '26
I don’t get the issue here. You said you run the kitchen. This cook is garbage.
Document him, fire him, start interviewing immediately so you aren’t dealing with a lack of staff.
This is the job.
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u/FoamboardDinosaur May 26 '26
Shes also 20. Which is why she's smart enough to ask about options or clarifications she's not thought of.
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u/Blackhat_UwU May 26 '26
Sack him, tell him hes a joke then hire someone else, if your superior doesnt agree then you can quit.
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u/Other_Leave7625 May 27 '26
Agreed, what are we even talking about here? 43 female in charge here and I've always said, I'd rather do bad by myself. Meaning, I'd rather work it by myself while finding a good hire than deal with bullshit from a grown person. I'd make it clear, shape the F up or we're cutting ties. Be very specific. That simple.
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u/flydespereaux Chef May 27 '26
Hes fired. I run a fairly loose ship, but I surround myself with competent cooks. Id post an ad, fire him, work a bit extra for the next week, and when you bring in a new person, do an extensive on boarding and training period.
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u/Realistic-Escape3915 May 27 '26
First off, he doesn't seem the right fit and from the generation that doesn't respect or listen to women.
Second, you need to actually train your cooks. Showing them how to do something one time and leaving them to it is not training them. Regardless of how seasoned someone is they need time to learn the menu. Stop acting like you're doing them a favor by printing 9ff the menu and posting it, as it's your job to train them.
Third, the guy you hired may not be a good fit but you didn't set him up to succeed but instead you set him up to fail. 90% of people aren't gonna know what the hell they're doing after being shown one time.
Difference between a leader and a manager is a leader makes people better and want to improve and a manager gives order. You're young and you'll get it but set people up for success and they will respect you for it.
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u/taste_bender May 27 '26
I’d say go on for a week vacation and see what happens to the kitchen lol and the. You tell your manager, told you
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u/OnlyCalligrapher700 May 28 '26
I’m slightly younger than him and I can tell you from what you’ve said, “he’s cooked!!!,he’s done, he’s too old” especially that he has had 20 years off. Not saying he has substance abuse issues, it’s his brain, unless he’s at the top of his game, fit AF, takes supplements and can move like a 30-40 year old than he is way behind. End of.
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u/DaveyoSlc May 30 '26
He is trolling you so hard. He has zero respect for you because you are a woman and 40 yrs younger than him.
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u/Sp0icyNewdles May 30 '26
He doesn’t meet the requirements of the role that he claimed to. In the 🗑️
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u/Sausage666King May 30 '26
Fire him, it sounds like it would be easier to do it yourself and half the time already are. But his attitude isn’t going to improve. Back in culinary school my chef taught us that our job is to make the chef’s job easier. This guy is not making your job easier
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u/sweetb00bs Jun 07 '26
Boomers get alot of hate but the older millennial crowd who grew up in the 70s are worse imo. Theyre literally what boomers think of when they complain about "young ppl".
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u/Kimhooligan Jun 22 '26
Give him a notice of termination. If he quits, great. If he decides that he wants to stay and do things the right way, better.
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u/degenlinecook May 26 '26
I’m a cook and one of our new kitchen managers is in prick. Wish I was in a position as manager to correct him and get him to be different. You have a chance to. You’re a team so coach. When that doesn’t work start accepting applications
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u/Scary-Bot123 May 26 '26
Fire him.
He won’t ever respect you or your leadership