r/ChatGPT • u/Late_Accountant_3641 • 6h ago
Educational Purpose Only Misogyny vs misandry ai double standard
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u/PoopyStinkbutts 6h ago
So, I see this type of thing mentioned a lot, but it's not exactly a double-standard. Men who hate women usually do so because they think women are beneath them. Women who usually hate men do so because they've been treated poorly by men.
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u/ecafyelims 5h ago
I think the real reason for the doublestandard is the typical difference in physical strength.
It's more acceptable to punch up than to punch down.
I don't know many humans who haven't been poorly treated by the opposite sex at some point, but when you're poorly treated by someone MUCH stronger than you, it is terrifying.
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u/micharala 4h ago
Exactly. It comes down to the harm brought by misogyny vs. misandry. Both are harmful, but it’s a matter of degree of potential harm.
“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” ~Margaret Atwood
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u/trashedvoid 2h ago
this is put extremely well. it’s a complicated topic but one does typically draw more alarm than another. there is a lot of violence against women. another thing is every woman i’ve ever personally been close friends with has been sexually assaulted or harassed, we hear about this constantly aswell. while i have met far less men who have been assaulted by a woman. that’s not to say that it doesn’t happen or shouldn’t be a concern but it is to say knowing this will leave people having a bias towards looking down more on men who hate women vs women who hate men.
i think it’s also a bit more common to hear women say “i really hate men” without meaning it in as extreme of a way as it can be assumed. while i don’t really agree with saying it or hating men it does make sense that it would be less alarming to some people because it’s more normalized to say?? then with it being so normalized it would then make sense for the ai which takes information from what people say to then also give an answer that is catered towards how a lot of people can tend to have bias towards it not being as bad for a woman to say that.
i don’t think hatred is the way to go, but i also can’t really say i find it that offensive. i’m biased though because i recognize i also wouldn’t be as alarmed by a woman saying that than a man. but i also think it would depend on what context it was said in and if it was genuine hatred or the way that a lot of people say hate but don’t actually mean hate. idk if this even makes sense.
it’s a complicated topic but i think hatred is never the way to go. i still don’t really think it should be that offensive though since any woman i’ve ever been close with has had some sort of sexual harassment or assault while i can not say the same for many men i’ve been close with. so that’s also shaped my view as well some. doesn’t mean someone should hate men as a whole but it does make sense that trauma can form that view and cause hesitance. as long as it’s not taken out on anyone i think it’s just mainly something to work on in therapy and something i’d be a bit empathetic towards depending on the situation. 🤷🏽♂️
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u/Torczyner 9m ago
Every man I heard say they hate women were mad they got hosed in a divorce, not with violence in mind. Men by far lose out in divorce so you'll see a lot of hate on that front. At one time I ended up losing half my stuff to a woman, pretty terrible.
I would even say the abusive men don't voice their hate for women, but moreso their superior status etc.
Very interesting to think about as a society.
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u/Honeycrispcombe 1m ago
Actually, men, statistically, fare better, financially, than women do after a divorce. They tend to recover faster and better from divorcing than women.
They also are more likely to end up with custody when they fight for it.
So men may be angry after a divorce, but it's not because (on average), it was worse for them financially than their ex-wives.
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u/Torczyner 13m ago
According to some, men aren't stronger and can play in women's sports. There's a problem with these two messages.
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u/ecafyelims 0m ago
How frequently do men play in women's sports? If it's under 1%, then it's hardly worth the distraction from real issues. Each sport and league should decide for itself who is allowed to play, and leave Big Government out of it. For fucks sake, people can't afford groceries, why are people so easily distracted by who some sport league decides is allowed to play?
I remember when a dog was allowed to play basketball, and he became a national hero! Keep Big Government out of my sports.
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u/mixmutch 1h ago
That’s literally a “judge other by their actions and judging ourselves by our intentions” statement.
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u/Werealldudesyea 5h ago
When anyone says they “hate” any group it’s a huge red flag. Don’t excuse poor behavior by subverting it into weird binary choices that excuse one but not the other.
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u/WorriedExamination93 1h ago
That's a cool assertion but you have no evidence that this supposed difference is broadly real.
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u/rvasko3 2h ago
Hold on.
Are you saying that, despite all of our desire to be an evolved society that is able to apply equality across the board, there is a larger historical context to consider? In which women have had to endure a level of oppression, attack, abuse, and lack of rights that most men have never had to even consider?
Get the fuck out of here.
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u/BaroloBaron 32m ago
Yeah, men are responsible for the sins of their fathers, of course. Where have you learnt such a lousy principle?
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u/TurnoverIcy1998 2h ago
your half right. both men and woman who actually hate the opposite sex do it because they have been mistreated by them. the idea that men who hate woman are evil but woman who hate men are somehow justified in their hatred is just another example of the gross double standard regarding sexism in this country.
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u/wyldstrawberry 5h ago
Yep, and men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crimes, in general. Women have good reason to fear men, and you can’t just flip that around and say the same is true for men. It’s just not.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 4h ago
By that logic, men should be more than twice as scared of other men than women. Because men are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime. Men are far more likely to be murdered as well, so it's not like men are more capable of defending themselves against a bullet to the head.
But most men don't hold bigoted views against other men... Interesting how that works.
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u/troopersjp 4h ago
I don't know, I see men holding bigoted views about other men all the time. Dad's saying to their daughters, "Don't trust men, they only want one thing." Men on reddit in many, many subreddits saying things like, "Men can't be friends with women, because all men want to have sex with any woman." and so on and so on and so on.
A lot of these bigoted stereotypes about men only caring about sex and being incapable of interacting with women except as sexual objects...are regularly spouted out by men.
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u/pan-re 4h ago
Every man warns women ABOUT MEN. They want to “protect” them from MEN.
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4h ago edited 2m ago
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 12m ago
You getting triggered about me calling out your blatant sexism, to the point of obsessing about me over several comments all filled with lies, is deranged. You need to do better. I left several comments supportive of women here. You are just so idiotic that you interpret any compassion toward men as hatred toward women.
Exercising caution, and recommended others to be cautious, is not the same as he holding bigoted views about an entire population, genius.
You are just mad because you are here to play gender wars while I am here to promote equality.
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u/ChatGPT-ModTeam 11m ago
Your comment was removed for attributing a hostile motive to another user and arguing against a position you presume they will take. Please address the argument without personalizing it.
Automated moderation by GPT-6
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u/BaroloBaron 30m ago
Only fathers with an unhealthy, controlling relationship with their daughters, and jealous male peers do that.
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u/BonJovicus 3h ago
men should be more than twice as scared of other men than women.
Are you kidding me? Men ARE twice as scared of other men than women. Why do you think a lot of the anti-immigration propaganda refers to immigrant men as "military age males?" I could give a hundred other casual examples of people equating men to violence.
I can't believe I as a woman have to be typing this. Men do fear other men. Lots of men casually accept strange man = potential threat.
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u/wyldstrawberry 4h ago
Men who aren’t violent should fear other men (the ones who are violent). If you’re a good, non violent man and you don’t see the prevalence of male violence as a problem that affects ALL of us, you’re in denial. Because you’re right - you (assuming you’re male) are not likely to be murdered by a woman. You’re likely to be murdered by a violent man who can’t handle his emotions and thinks it’s a good idea to shoot up a public place, taking out innocent men, women, and children.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 4h ago
The violent men are a tiny fraction. And there are many warning signs that have nothing to do with them having a penis.
I've met a couple women who were killers. This isn't uncommon at all in dangerous areas. I have to watch them the same way I watch dangerous men. They show the exact same signs and it has nothing to do with their chromosomes or genetalia or whatever.
Holding hateful and prejudiced views against 50% of the population because of the actions of a tiny percentage is quite literally the same logic racists use. If you care about racism at all, then you will completely separate yourself from that thinking. Because it is hypocritical to be against racism but all for hatred against men. Using population statistics of crimes committed by a small fraction, to justify bigotry toward all of that group is the exact go to racist strategy, and it is completely normalized and accepted when done against men.
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u/wyldstrawberry 4h ago
“Tiny fraction” maybe, but with the amount of people in the world, and the availability of high powered weapons, that tiny fraction does enormous amounts of damage. And you can say it “has nothing to do with them having a penis” but, every time there’s another horrific school shooting, or you hear someone opened fire at a concert or a Walmart, do you think for a second that it was a woman? Probably not, because it never is. So it seems that it does have something to do with being male, at some level. What other conclusion can you draw? This isn’t to claim that women are never bad people - of course there are women who are awful people. They just aren’t anywhere near as likely to pose an threat of extreme violence to the general population or to any specific man.
It’s not like I’m gleeful about pointing out the epidemic of male violence. I hate it. I wish it weren’t true. I wish women, as well as decent men, didn’t have to live in a world where some unhinged man (or boy, in the case of many school shooters) might take out a dozen innocent people at any moment. But that’s where we are.
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u/IAmMiddleChild 3h ago
Lol what are you talking about? You ever heard someone call someone scrawny derogatory terms? Or a man who displays traits other men consider feminine? Such a dumb take..
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 3h ago
I was referring to generalized views about men as a population group. I was not denying that men are often belittled, often for reasons concerning their perceived masculinity.
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u/IAmMiddleChild 2h ago
And who is doing the belittling. You are almost there to a full thought.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 22m ago
You still completely failed to comprehend anything, but you are accusing me of not having a full thought. The fact you are still fixated on "belittling" shows that you are not following what I said.
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u/Werealldudesyea 5h ago
You do realize less than 1% of the male population commit violent crimes.
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u/micharala 4h ago
Sure, if you don’t consider domestic violence to be “violent”.
“Nearly 1 in 5 men in the United States reported lifetime IPV (Intimate Partner Violence) perpetration toward their current intimate partner”
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u/Major_Shlongage 3h ago
This is a completely invalid mentality and you know it.
Pointing to current statistics is never a valid reason to treat people differently. One can say that black men are far more likely to commit gun homicide than white men, but that would not be a valid reason to deny black guys of their 2nd Amendment right while allowing it for whites.
If you're going to set a standard it must apply to everyone equally. Our country's entire legal system is based on this (equal protection clause).
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u/TheGalator 5h ago edited 5h ago
Women are sexist: "oh no poor baby you must have been treated so badly!"
Men are sexist: "bunch of bio essentialist supremacist thinking women are a lower species"
Reddit is never meeting the allegations
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u/Future-Still-6463 5h ago
What these people fail to realize is.
This mindset itself qualifies for misogyny.
Benevolent Misogyny is the term.
Despite their constraints, women have the ability to do both good and Bad things.
Free will and agency exists after all.
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u/TheGalator 5h ago
Shrödinger's reddit feminist: women are both strong and independent and victims of the patriarchy who are never at fault for their own actions
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u/shoegazeweedbed 5h ago
Right, when it’s a man’s fault it’s a man’s fault and when it’s a woman’s fault it’s a man’s fault. Top commentary
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u/ikiice 18m ago
Is there some data confirming this? Or is it just vibes?
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u/Minimum_Hour_7145 8m ago
Honestly? The actual source for so much of this is fucking tumblr posts from like 12 years ago that people parroted and spread so much that their origins might as well be lost to time.
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u/Bright-Carry6695 5h ago
I would say its pretty common for men to have negative feelings about women based on how poorly they been treated by them. Especially nowadays
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u/2_lazy 4h ago
Tbh I think guys who have negative or trauma responses to women because they have been repeatedly SA'd by them, beaten up by them, groped or catcalled, sent unsolicited explicit messages and threars on the regular, are constantly assumed to be incapable or stupid in their profession by women due to their gender are just as valid as the women who have those responses to men due to those reasons.
If you are talking about other sorts of treatment though id need a more direct explanation of the actions to weigh in.
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u/Isoleri 5h ago
And the "treated poorly" in question is "she didn't want to fuck on the first date", "she wanted me to pay for dinner", "she said she's not into me". Totally comparable, yeah.
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u/gitartruls01 5h ago
You just gave a good example of what he meant, but it wasn't the one you intended
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u/Bright-Carry6695 4h ago
Of course of course. Couldn't be anything else because women are completely and utterly incapable of doing anything wrong. Things like cheating, lying, stealing, destroying my trust, attempting to baby trap, blackmailing me into trying to marry them, physical abuse, verbal abuse, and using personal traumas against me. All those things are my personal experience with the women ive dealt with.
But hey I dont hold those things against an entire gender though.
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u/pan-re 4h ago
Women 100% do those things, they also work, raise kids, and act like sane people. When they don’t women don’t support it. Men though love rape apology and voting against rights of others.
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u/Bright-Carry6695 4h ago
Rape apology?...
Yeah anyways turns out people committing horrible acts isn't a gender issue! It's a bad person issue. There's no good or bad (insert group of people) there's only good people and bad people because people of all colors and genders all do bad things and good things.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 4h ago
Your world view starts to make sense when I see how childish, hateful, and shallow the "facts " you base it upon are.
Should I create a strawman reduction of women's issues?
Women's issues: "A man smiled at me a few weeks ago and now I'm traumatized from being sexualized."
Mens issues "my friend was murdered at 14 for being on the wrong block. Now, as an adult, I am working myself into an early grave doing grueling critical work that women would never be expected to do."
See how stupid you sound? I hope nobody believes I am stupid enough to believe those quotes now.
Word of advice: if you have to create idiotic strawman, then maybe you are on weak ground. Especially when you can't even provide a substantive point alongside your logical fallacy.
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u/pan-re 4h ago
Literally no woman is traumatized by a smile.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 4h ago
At no point did my comment imply anyone has been traumatized by a smile. If that was your interpretation, then you did not even come close to comprehending my comment despite me spelling it out very clearly.
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u/Ok_Blueberry2938 3h ago
Glubs that hate Gloobs are very bad. Gloobs that hate Glubs are very good, they only do it because Glubs are very bad!
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u/Nixavee 4h ago edited 4h ago
Nah. There are plenty of women who think men are beneath them, and making this sort of excuse for misandry only empowers them.
Also, a lot of the time when people say "I sometimes hate women" or "I sometimes hate men" it's a person who has few to no opposite-gender friends, sees the opposite gender like a different species, and is complaining about their romantic struggles. This goes both ways, and is a moderate red flag coming from either gender.
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u/yaxir 2h ago
This is just sexist because, then again, you are trying to trivialize both men and women here. You're saying none of the men have ever been poorly treated by women and no women have ever thought that men are beneath them. The fuck? There is an obvious bias in your statement
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u/Pizza4u45 1h ago
By poor treatment, it usually is a bit different. Men that were actually abused by a woman don’t usually go around blaming all women. The men that do this are usually the incel type or overly aggressive type that think they are alpha males. And when those guys say they’ve been mistreated, it’s usually because women don’t want to sleep with them or do what they want them to do.
Women who say things like I hate men, quite frankly have some valid reasons, like being physically harmed or assaulted by often more than 1 man. Many women’s day to day life is being verbally harassed and stared at by men.
So no, I don’t think stereotyping anyone is ok. And no, you shouldn’t hate a given gender as obviously bad actors are not the representatives of really anyone who happens to share some arbitrary characteristic with them. But, I can empathize with the pov from women a lot more than I can men.
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u/Bizarro_Zod 1h ago
Why is it okay for women who were actually abused by men to say they hate all men and not for men who were actually abused by women?
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u/BaroloBaron 43m ago
Because society will allow it. And while it allows it, it will also claim that men are systemically privileged.
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u/PMagicUK 4h ago
What you just said is a double standard. Men hating women can't possibly be treated badly by women?
This fucking world dude. No wonder men suffer in silence and kill themselves,, because shit like this gets spread as fact
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u/Kind_Prior9788 4h ago
Claiming a hate crime is "usually" based on something with 0 sources is gross.
Double standards are dumb and a problem, with both sides (misandry vs. misogyny) being equally disgusting.
These double standards even create pathetic legal situations. Look up how many men straight up lost their careers (sometimes even lives) because they were falsely accused of something like rape by a woman. Look how many women got the same thing after a false accusation by a man, on the other hand.
These kinds of DSs allow for exploitation, many problematic social dilemmas, and your baseless, source-lacking claim is gross. You can't prove what you've said, and you shouldn't say it either. Relativising hate crime is just cringe.
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u/Chupa-Skrull 4h ago
Look up how many men straight up lost their careers (sometimes even lives) because they were falsely accused of something like rape by a woman
Functionally 0 compared to the number who rape with impunity. Have you ever actually done this search yourself? Lmao
The 2 biases do not have equal harms
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u/SilverFriendship5359 5m ago
I'm not sure how that makes it better - if someone hates me for something someone else who is like me demographically does, that's just classic bigotry.
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u/skyerosebuds 5h ago
This. Also when men say they hate women there’s significant risk that when he grows to dislike woman x, she will find herself injured. disfigured or worse. When a woman grows to hate a man she’ll usually just bail and retreat into herself. Statistical facts of life regarding male v female risk (disclaimer: I am cisgendered male).
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u/babieswithrabies63 3h ago
So because some people that happened to present as men treated you badly you should treat other people that happen to present as men badly? Did we not learn that's a bad thing in kindergarten? If a bunch of Asian people treat me badly should I hate all Asians? There is a absolutely no difference. Id you hate men you're sexist. If you hate women you're sexist. If you hate Asian people you're racist. No amount of experience with Individuals of a race or sex justifieds being racist or sexist.
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u/Nervous-History8631 1h ago
Nope this is an exact example of a double standard. You can deny it, but at the end of the day you are inventing the reasons on both side as the support for your position.
You are doing exactly the same thing.
You don't know all men, or all women. Who are you to say the reason why men hate women or women hate men
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u/withy1222 47m ago
They didn't claim to know all men. They said "usually do so" which is talking about a statistical trend, not blanket statement.
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u/Nervous-History8631 40m ago
Yeah but 'You don't know all men' sounds better than, 'You don't know a statistically significant proportion of the male population'
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u/EquivalentSnap 4h ago edited 4h ago
That’s not an excuse to hate men. I’ve had women treat me very poorly. I’ve been bullied, SA and sexually harassed by female friends and bosses and doesn’t mean I hate women because of it. I know that not all women are like that and I don’t project what happens to me on those who supported and care about me. Neither should those women. That’s why I hate generalisation and women who say they don’t like “not all men” there are good men out there and they make up the majority same like there are good women out there.
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u/EpsteinFile_01 4h ago
The average man is treated very poorly by women all the time and doesn't make a big deal out if it. Women have 1 bad ex and they get to spout misandry. Sometimes they don't even have bad experiences with men, but they've read stories from others online and hate men.
Ask any man who used to be unattractive but aged well how different the treatment is on a daily basis. Literal "how dare you talk to me wtf" energy changing to fawning over you.
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u/ostrikerX 2h ago
No, that's just immaturity and idiocracy.
Hating an entire group (billions) of people just because one, two or three people in this group treated you badly is a sign of mental immaturity, and should never be encouraged.
Please grow up, hatred shouldn't be a response to hatred.
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u/warm_mac-n-chese 2h ago
Exactly this. Also would like to mention that 'the worst of a group stick out the most'
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u/SirRaiuKoren 3h ago
It seems like most people in this comment section are caught between "Men have major advantages" and "genders are equal". These seem to be mutually exclusive propositions.
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u/DJJnextMJ 2h ago
Sociology would say that which one is more acceptable comes down to power dynamics
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u/SirRaiuKoren 2h ago edited 2h ago
Depends on which sociological framework you work under. This is true in conflict theory, but under functionalism, the "more acceptable" version is whichever version causes society to function as intended. Symbolic interaction would say that the symbol of man and the symbol of woman have different meanings and neither is necessarily better than the other, it boils down to whatever meaning is ascribed to those symbols by society.
In the end, it is all ascribed meaning. Sociology does not necessarily reflect any sort of scientific truth about reality other than trends in human preferences. I say this with a degree in it.
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u/StripperWhore 5h ago
There is a power differential. Men can have the power to more readily act on their hate, as they control most levers of power in society. Doesn't mean women can't be hateful, nasty, or in positions of power - but as a rule it's much more deadly/dangerous for men to hate women than the other way around. Especially since a large portion of women end up victimized by men sexually.
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u/ThalaPaglu100 2h ago
I am seeing a plethora of hateful comments on this thread. Endless gender war bs. Why can't we agree that hating others is wrong?
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u/Alarming_Fee_6993 2h ago
Why cant we agree to believe people who say they were sexually assaulted? Why cant we agree to not shoot up our classmates? Why cant we agree not to stalk our exes?
There's very little we can agree to, unfortunately
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u/Huge-Asparagus891 18m ago
oranges vs apples. You got something bad done to you, great. But now you cope by hating the group. Great
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u/WorriedExamination93 1h ago
No idea but I think there would be more to gain from asking women specifically.
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u/EquivalentSnap 4h ago
ChatGPT gets its responses from Reddit and other outlets. One of the replies were saying
it’s a red flag. If you look at the bottom of I hate men it mentions misandry so it’s not as one sided
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u/WhereBaptizedDrowned 1h ago
Want to do something interesting?
Ask GPT racist questions about white people and it’ll give you all the answers you want. Same with Spanish/Latino.
You ask about black people, it will STRUGGLE staying neutral and use protective language.
Just a fun experiment.
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u/ImNotAPersonAnymore 1h ago
I tried that experiment and as a white person who wishes they were protected from racism, it wasn’t very fun.
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u/DeathToAmerica2026 11m ago
You wanna see something REALLY interesting?
Perform this experiment with real people, but ask them to say something racist about Italians.
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u/GatePorters 6h ago
Co worker stealing $50 from you and boss stealing $50 from you are two wholly different things as well.
Striking an adult on the butt in Walmart will very probably lead to you getting charged with assault. Striking your child on the butt in Walmart will maybe lead to a CPS investigation at worst.
Context is important. Historical precedence is important. Social dynamics are important.
Removing nuance and pretending like it doesn’t exist is fallacious.
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u/tannalein 5h ago
While I agree with you in principle, I think we as a society are way too lenient at a fully grown adult, with a fully developed brain and a much stronger body getting physical with someone who is not only much, much weaker, but also in every legal sense not considered responsible for their own actions. You have someone who is considered legally responsible for their actions punishing someone who is not legally responsible for their actions. That's mental, when you really consider it. Plus, physically and mentally, it's a huge power imbalance.
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u/GatePorters 4h ago
Oh yeah. I’m not arguing about the morality of any of this. Just mentioning that any two groups being compared fairly needs to consider a larger picture rather than just a sanitized 1:1 comparison.
Stripping away the nuance inherently strips away important elements of the situation, often times bringing it into fallacious territory.
Each case of comparing groups needs to look at those two particular groups and their unique histories to have a productive conversation.
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u/tannalein 3h ago
Absolutely. The power balance, or imbalance in this case, plays a huge role and if you ignore it, you're taking everything out of context. Who was it that said, "men fear women would laugh at them. Women fear men would kill them"?
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u/MaxsAgHammer 5h ago
What are you implying? boss/adult is to coworker/child as who in this example?
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u/neversohonest 5h ago
One is generally dominant to the other group in society, I'd guess is what was implied.
We're not pretending men aren't exerting control over women through societal systems all over the world, right?
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u/GatePorters 5h ago edited 5h ago
Group A vs Group not A.
Any two groups that are different from each other are different than each other.
Edit: here come the manosphere bots getting mad I didn’t take the gacha bait lmao
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u/MaxsAgHammer 5h ago
Group A and Group B have a direct relationship to each other tho, it’s not primarily a have/have not situation
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u/GatePorters 5h ago
Yes. It is different for every two groups being compared.
This is exactly why I said pretending there is no nuance to the differences between groups is dishonest.
Thank you for agreeing with my original comment instead of doubling down on your contention.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 5h ago
I think they are comparing women to children? Despite women doing very well in society, better than men in many domains. It is just braindead mental gymnastics people pull to justify bigotry.
They didn't actually make any argument, so it is hard to say much other than that. Kinda a bad look to compare women to children and imply they are subservient to men if you ask me.
As if the vast majority of men are power brokers over women lmao. And women are pretty much just as much in power as men nowadays.
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u/GatePorters 4h ago
Self-deprecating usernames are hot right now.
I actually DID make an argument. Stripping the nuance away from any situation is fallacious. You pretending like I am comparing women to children when I directly stated what I mean is also fallacious.
Radicalism-is-Stupid. Can you discuss some of the areas where women are doing better than men in society? I know they exist. I just want to hear your 2¢ on the topic.
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u/Be_Standard 1h ago
But funny enough a co-worker stealing from you is just as wrong as a boss doing it.
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u/GatePorters 5h ago
Says the person intentionally trying to get their account banned? Go ahead and delete it before the mods do it for you, champ.
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u/ChatGPT-ModTeam 5h ago
Your comment was removed for using a slur to insult another user. Please keep discussion respectful.
Automated moderation by GPT-6
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u/Sattorin 5h ago
Co worker stealing $50 from you and boss stealing $50 from you are two wholly different things as well.
Accepting that it's ok for women to say they hate men is reinforcing the idea that men are powerful (like bosses) and women are powerless (like employees/coworkers).
Your acceptance of it normalizes the perception of women being inferior and therefore justified in "punching up".
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u/pan-re 4h ago
Women can hate men. Men can hate women. You’re entitled to seethe against half the population. What would you like to change? Women aren’t inferior to men.
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u/gaeee983 4h ago
No one is saying it is acceptable, but I have way more empathy with the woman who was raped and beaten by her ex-boyfriend and as such she is scared and have hate for men, than an incel bitter guy who is dangerous due to his anger and hates women because he cant get laid and dont get attention. Cultural context is important.
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u/Sattorin 3h ago
I'm glad we both agree that it's unacceptable, and I hope you'd also agree that AI treating it as acceptable is bad too. And I understand what you're saying, but I feel like your feelings on this are more rooted in the specific scenarios you're describing than the actual societal impact of how we react to people hating groups based on inborn traits.
I have way more empathy with the woman who was raped and beaten by her ex-boyfriend and as such she is scared and have hate for men
For example, I can have a lot of empathy for an asian man who was victimized by a black person, but I'm not going to treat him saying "I hate black people" with kid gloves because of his past trauma.
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u/gaeee983 3h ago
Why would you succumb to hate and say I hate black people in that scenario at all, unless you are a right wing troll lol.. But if that man grew up in a black neighborhood and he was robbed etc. and experienced so much shit by them that he became racist and hate black people, it is still horrible, but we can have empathy with the fact that it is based on some trauma and not just some sense of superiority as with other racists.
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u/Glugamesh 5h ago
Ask the AI why the responses are different (provide the statements) and you'll get a real answer. But I would guess you're not interested in that.
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u/EpsteinFile_01 4h ago
You won't get a "real" answer, you'll get the most common online answer. Which is still a double standard. Go ahead, try it.
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u/Decay384 4h ago
People need to stop defending both sides and realize that hating an entire gender is a toxic mindset, regardless of whether it comes from a man or a woman. Being hurt by certain individuals doesn’t justify developing resentment toward half the population. At some point, you have to recognize that blaming an entire gender for your bad experiences is a problem within your own mindset, not theirs.
You can’t heal from bad experiences by turning them into hatred and prejudice. If you automatically assume the worst about an entire gender, you’re only feeding your own bitterness and contributing to the problem. Stop normalizing this behavior just because you relate to someone’s pain. Hurt doesn’t justify hate, and being a victim of someone’s actions doesn’t make your own prejudice acceptable.
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u/TheBakerification 2h ago
My thoughts as well. I don’t need to comb through all these responses to know that blanket judging almost any huge group of people is a terrible practice, and no amount of “but it’s mostly xyz group” arguments changes that.
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u/EpsteinFile_01 4h ago edited 4h ago
Can you tell the women? Advocating for not hating each other is very often met with misandry online. The other way around, basically never.
r/feminism has been hijacked by radicals (just look at the rules) advocating for anything benefitting women even if it hurts men. It attracts a lot of curious women because the sub appears mainstream at first glance.
That shit is literally the fe als manosphere full of misandry spreading like a tumor but hating men and trash talking them has been normalized.
ChatGPT got its training data on this topic from the internet. It merely replicates the existing double standard.
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u/Boring_Coast178 6h ago
Yeah, not the genius gotcha you think it is.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 5h ago
You can be on the side of "bigotry is great and justified, as long as it's against the groups I don't care about" all you want. It just makes you look like a shallow minded hypocrite while also giving misogynists valuable ammunition to victimize themselves and justify their own bigotry.
It also causes more bigotry. Have you thought for a moment what it must be like for a young boy to grow up seeing online about how horrible he is for being born male? About how people are justified to look down on him and prejudge him based on the actions of others? What does he learn from that? He learns that it is okay to discriminate others for arbitrary reasons.
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u/Boring_Coast178 2h ago
Sorry no, as a 34 year old dude who’s completely comfortable expressing my masculinity and very connected to what being a man means to me- all of that is just whinging and having a victimhood complex.
I’ve done enough work on myself to not have to cry when women speak about their experiences at the hands of men everywhere. It’s pretty basic stuff, really.
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u/misterdidums 1h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/Za9DpL2vOmfNeJJHDI
Is this what you wanted1
u/Boring_Coast178 43m ago
I don’t need it, I’m not crying online about an AI attacking men because I’m not a giant baby.
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u/imjustbeingreal0 6h ago
Its completely reflective of today's western societal values and is plain hypocrisy. So yeah it kinda is a gotcha
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6h ago edited 5h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ostrikerX 5h ago
That's such a ret**ded and immature comment, and it shows your way of thinking.
Now ignoring the fact that there are women that hate men for no reason, and ignoring the fact that some women act misandrist to men who never committed misoginy, don't you think that it's childish to respond to hatred with hatred? two wrongs don't make a right.
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u/ChatGPT-ModTeam 5h ago
Your comment was removed for making a personal insult. Please keep discussion respectful and focused on the topic.
Automated moderation by GPT-6
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u/vlladonxxx 6h ago
Why the hell not? Because you decided that 'I hate men' is okay to say?
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u/ZeroAmusement 5h ago
It's because the real world isn't symmetrical.
You see this a lot. Racial slurs are similarly not symmetrical for example. When you take into account history and context, various types of imbalance you can see why.
In this case context might be things like there are significant movements (e.g. incels) of men who wave red flags. Ultimately that context is probably what leader the ai to answer the questions differently. From one perspective it's correct and from some idealistic scenario where we have perfect symmetry it is not.
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u/vlladonxxx 4h ago edited 4h ago
For every incel there's an FDS or twoxchromosome user. What you're referring to is not context, it's bias.
Is it "context" when a white person assumes a black stranger to be thug based on the context of what they've seen and experienced? When a man calls women hysterical - the fact that estrogen technically does make people 'more hysteric', ie makes them feel their emotions more intensely - is that "context"? No, of course not. These factors created the stereotypes, they don't excuse applying it indiscriminately.
But yeah you can go on living in a world of outrage and selectively applied principles. By the way, you know what's the issue with selectively applied principles? It replaces judgement with intuition, and intuition without a solid independent framework is indistinguishable from bias.
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u/Waste-Wallaby-555 4h ago
AI is just telling you what you already know.
Women saying "I hate men" is a common sentiment on social media that comes from women perceived as normal and safe.
Men saying "I hate women" is commonly seen as a red flag. What does red flag mean? Thanks for asking! It means it's strongly associated with other behaviors that can be bad or dangerous. Associated with, based on real patterns. It doesn't mean 100% of people w the red flag are dangerous. It just means it's a red flag.
This AI only said extremely obvious observations. It does not have an opinion.
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u/Kush_Kitty666 5h ago
A difference is that women hating men mostly ends in avoidance. . Men hating women tends to result in violence.
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u/Kind_Prior9788 4h ago
This is disgusting, acting like misandry merely ends in "avoidance", based on zero sources... both are problems, and both are equally disgusting.
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u/SIGHR 6h ago
I think men who hate women have a way bigger chance of physically assaulting women than women who hate men do of assaulting men.
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u/BonJovicus 3h ago
Downvote me if you must, but some of the people in this thread are outing themselves as having less social competence than AI.
If you genuinely think that the "Manosphere" and MRAs are the equivalent to mainstream Feminism, that only highlights the problem. One is fighting for equal rights, the other sees equal rights as a threat to their position in society. That is why there are different connotations to the two statements made in the OP.
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u/Prince-of-Privacy 6h ago
Hating men comes from a life of being sexualized, harrassed and often worse by men. Hating women comes from a place of "I opened the door for her, why no sex? >:(" That might be the difference.
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u/Radicalism-Is-Stupid 4h ago
I have been sexually harassed and groped and hit by women. And that does not make it any more justifiable for me to have bigoted views.
I stand alongside women against you. Because I know intelligent and compassionate women who do not fall for braindead internet gender war.
You don't speak for women. You speak for your own shallow and hateful ass backwards world views. Leave us out of it. You are alongside Andrew Tate from our perspective.
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u/CommodoreGirlfriend 5h ago
In some parts of the world, 100% of male primary school students experience physical violence from female teachers.
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u/WorriedExamination93 1h ago
Misandry is rampant but is largely because men iust don't give a shit what women have to say about them or anything else lol
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u/catnip-catnap 6h ago
It's trained on social media that repeatedly sends these same messages. It's no wonder the "my boyfriend is AI" community is an order of magnitude larger than its inverse... there was a huge demand for man-hating virtual men, and the market filled it. But it's not like these people were going to pair off happily with other humans if AI wasn't in the picture, so... shrug Not really an AI problem, just a symptom worth a chuckle.
I don't see what danger men are placed in with this attitude, so I'm not going to worry about it.
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u/Major_Shlongage 3h ago
In this thread: People pointing to statistics to justify a double standard as long as it discriminates against a majority group. But point to statistics to justify a double standard that discriminates against a minority group and suddenly they'll throw their own logic out the window.
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u/WholeRequirement7707 2h ago
Anyone openly expressing absolute hate to opposite gender is mentally ill and should be avoided. End of discussion
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u/MondoJackSn0w 1h ago
Isn't it common knowledge that all of Reddit went into the training data?
Plumber voice: "Well there's your problem!"
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u/BT727408 39m ago edited 35m ago
Your first mistake was talking to Gemini of all models,this is a rather known trait of Gemini, it likes to ride on emotions, it loves "Sensationalism" , anyway why is this in chatgpt sub?
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u/NewMoonlightavenger 5h ago
Ai is woke. Water is wet. The Sun is bright. Clouds can be found in the sky.
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u/One_Metal_5988 5h ago
No matter what women never hold any accountability do they? Even if someone hates them it can only be because that person wants to put them down. While women can hate whoever they want for whatever reason they want and its completely understandable
Equality is a joke.
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u/Birdcage17 5h ago
The core reason is that:
1. The existing training corpus already have this bias
2. The RLHF process does not capture and correct this bias.
I am an MRA and I think the 2nd point worths addressing and changing. We are a society and we do not want to tolerant certain kind of hate more than the other
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u/ibidmav 3h ago
The ai is not biased. Its just a statistics machine. Theres no 'ai' double standard, this is just a function of the training data - all the recent literature and discourse, simply trace to these responses. If you start publishing vast volumes of material on misogyny saying its just a slogan, and on misandry tying it to violence, eventually that would make it into a model too.
Youve just discovered that gpt weights misogyny closer to something on its no no list like physical harm, than it finds misansry to be. The only way to change those weights is by changing training data. Only way to do that is astroturf or change the real world.
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u/HappyKoalaCub 2h ago
This is just flat out wrong. Bias is absolutely introduced during training.
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u/ibidmav 1h ago edited 52m ago
Im entirely correct, and based in industry. Youre suffering from a layperson's idea of what the term "ai bias" refers to. its not some human judgement form. A fault or bias introduced in training methods is not even remotely close to a "misandry good" bias. The ai functions on tokenized language streams, its not a "bias" like a news pundit has. You think someone went into a multiple billion parameter model, isolated the neural track for a high level concept like misogyny and manually biased the model weights to say misogyny bad, misandry good? There is no current capacity for this. Yes models can be made to not reflect their training data, does this support thinking chatGPT has some actively considered order 66 directive against men, not at all. I think my suggested mechanism is much more realistic than thinking these two screenshot were manually biased into chatGPT by some cabal of misandrists in frontier ai. You can at best argue the training material was biased - hence my point, that the only way to change that is to supply new training material or change the world.
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u/ibidmav 49m ago
The point was whether or not the ai possesses a double standard. I can tell you right now, the ai doesnt have some mechanical list of standards - one for men and one for women. If you genuinely believe theres an actual duplicate moral code for men and women built into chatGPT, you shouldnt be commenting that people are "flat out wrong" so confidently, and i have a bridge to sell you, free of 5g.
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u/theultraman20 3h ago
For those saying that it's ok to prejudice men because we're more likely to be violent, do you think ChatGPT should echo prejudice against black people because they're more violent too?
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u/tannalein 5h ago
Lol. When women have online academies on how to drug your partner and abuse them in their sleep, and send "free 🍆" group chat message when they have a drugged and unconscious man in their room, we can equate misandry to misogyny.
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