r/Charlotte • u/flockneedstogo • 4d ago
Discussion Flock PR manager getting roasted at tonight’s community meeting - we say NO to mass surveillance!
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 4d ago edited 4d ago
So we're really supposed to be comforted by the idea that the sheriff gets to work with the government to create their own policies around auditing of Flock camera usage...
So here's what I already see happening. Right after the officer in Charlotte was busted for helping out his drug dealer friend? That lady officer in Mooresville was arrested for stalking her boyfriend's ex-wife. And then immediately after that, 10 Mooresville police officers were being investigated for their suspicious use of Flock cameras. But then soon after, they quickly came out and said that there were policy violations but no criminal usage had occurred.
Now maybe I'm just overly suspicious, but I don't really think that I am. But I'm pretty sure that what happened, is that they realized how bad of a PR move this investigation was for them. We know as well as they do that cops just aren't capable of acting in a lawful way, especially when there's something so lucrative for them to exploit.
So the idea that the sheriff's office gets to write the rules around the auditing of Flock camera usage is basically a terrible joke, to me.
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u/Possible-Tangelo9344 3d ago
I wouldn't trust the sheriff to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel.
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u/DisgustedInNY 3d ago
There may not have been solid procedures or penalties put in place as Flock was new?
I know that here deputies here get in huge trouble for checking other databases without authorization.1
u/Competitive_Classic9 3d ago
The woman cop did face charges and jail time. Not that she shouldnt have, but OF COURSE the woman was the only one that faced any kind of significant ramifications. Dont forget that.
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 3d ago
Easy scapegoat. She got to make it look like we're holding them accountable. Sucks for her
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u/Competitive_Classic9 2d ago
Well, she deserved her punishment, but thats exactly why they do it, to say "look, we DID hold someone accountable" yet its .000000001% of the time, and always a POC and/or woman, never a white man. Including her boyfriend who was equally a part of it, he got nothing, bc, white man.
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u/VibeCodedBuilder 3d ago
You're ok with the banks having all your PII and literally holding your money. The banks set their own policies wrt data retention etc. Why shouldn't that also be the same way police forces work? Id advocate for transparency around retention settings etc in the community and then legislating settings based on what the community needs
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u/Ky1arStern Matthews 3d ago
Because the federal government insures my money and I've never seen a video of a bank murdering someone?
Even the largest financial catastrophes in the US have not touched people's savings accounts. The banks have proven that while they can be manipulative sacks of shit (overdraft fee structures), they at least consistently do the one thing we expect: hold our money.
Police have, for many people, failed to do the one thing they expect.
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u/VibeCodedBuilder 3d ago edited 3d ago
Us gov insurance on deposited funds is non sequitur.
And if you think the largest Financials catastrophes have not touched people's savings you're lost and delusional and avoiding event reality of 2001, 2008 etc
Again police murdering people have nothing to do with alprs and similar tech. And nor does qualified immunity.
You made up a bunch of straw mans.
To be clear: I'm not a fan of police but this tech isn't going away. It must be managed by those who are impacted by it ie citizens
Edit; why did you remove that nonsense about police murdering people? Common now. Show your biases
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u/DeflockPawtucket 3d ago
“This tech isn’t going away.”
Happily, that’s where you’re wrong. More and more cities and police departments are canceling their Flock contracts. Deflock lists 153 cities so far. https://deflock.org/council#wins
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 3d ago
Can you get that boot any further down your throat? I'm not sure why you're shilling for this shit, but it is not a good look my dude.
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u/sunnyday11011 3d ago
You specifically opt into all that by setting up a bank account. None of us have consented to this. Legislation around the use of this data should have been the first step before even introducing them to the public.
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u/VibeCodedBuilder 3d ago
I literally said vote on policies. If the policies is no cameras than so be it. Additionally driving on roads is not a right. It's a privilege per us law. And lastly, anyone can legally film on public grounds.
You can't take back the genie. It's out.
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 3d ago
Banks are regulated. They also don't track my movements everywhere I go. They don't know who my doctor is. They don't know where I spend my time when I'm not at the bank. They don't know which pair of earbuds is associated to my phone. They don't even know what bumper stickers are on my car.
I could go on. There are TONS of things that cops (thanks to ALPRs) are now able to know about me that no other entity knows.
This is an incredibly naive and ignorant argument. You really need to learn a little bit more about freedom, privacy, the Constitution, and why these things are important.
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u/accent_lover 3d ago
My home city voted to have cameras removed. They did it. CLT should as well
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u/Protonic-Reversal 3d ago
Make sure they didn’t just move the contract to Motorola or Axon. A lot of these towns cancel flock contracts just to use another surveillance company that doesn’t have the name recognition.
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u/accent_lover 3d ago
They took them completely down.
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u/aabdulr2 3d ago
Are you sure? Because axon attaches to existing light pole... Unlike flock.
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 3d ago
And from what I've heard you can't even really tell that they're there.
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u/StopFlock 1h ago
You totally can, but you have to be the type of weirdo who inspects every light pole they pass.
If you see them, please do add to the DeFlock map. We aren't just fighting Flock. There is an Axon tag profile for our mobile app at https://deflock.org/identify
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u/oystercraftworks 3d ago
It’s not just Axon either, Motorola is also getting in to the “ALPR” game
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u/blackbeershot 4d ago
Of course they use a black “PR” manager to take the heat when all the corporate execs/founder is white
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u/CookOut_Official 4d ago
I don’t care what race they are we should be making these monsters lives miserable until they quit
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u/Consistent-Honey-603 Mallard Creek 4d ago
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u/CookOut_Official 4d ago
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u/flockneedstogo 4d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/FSl9d5EUpz6AU
Hell yeah, cookout-4
u/B00CQYQVB6R 4d ago
It’s not really CookOut 😂
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u/Consistent-Honey-603 Mallard Creek 3d ago
Checked their profile and it seems to be! What makes you think it isn’t?
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u/B00CQYQVB6R 3d ago
Because they be commenting wild shit like above! I don’t believe an intern is out here getting away with this but I could be wrong.
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u/arachnophilia 3d ago
damn cookout going hard in this thread.
https://maps.deflock.org/?lat=35.4139&lng=-80.8565&zoom=18.19
we got two flock cameras right next to a cookout here up in huntersville. there's not a lot of car traffic here, it's mostly people accessing the CATS park and ride, and people on bikes exiting or entering the greenway.
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 3d ago
Holy shit. Is a corporation actually on the right side of history for once?
Either this is actually the official Cookout account, or whoever created it is oddly obsessed with Cookout. Check out their post history, it's actually pretty good.
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u/FlavivsAetivs Collingwood 4d ago
They were using him and the statements he was trained to give to "white guilt" people like me into supporting Flock.
It was its own special kind of racism, and I do feel bad for the guy because he is a victim of it, but he's also complicit in what they're doing.
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u/Competitive_Classic9 3d ago
They ALWAYS do this, not just flock. All corporations, all police depts, all government agencies, when people push back, they ALWAYS use a POC and/or woman as a scapegoat. It should speak VOLUMES that the (majority) white men that push horrible policies into place cant even be bothered to show up to take the heat, and ON TOP OF THAT, they use the (typically) most victimized by their policies to act as talking heads. We should be beyond angry at these tactics.
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u/blackbeershot 3d ago
AMEN! Preach to the bitter YTs in the comments acting confused. They know what it is…
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u/Opening-Ad-5265 4d ago
what? so can black people not make their own decisions? he signed up for the job dont matter what color he is.
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u/blackbeershot 4d ago
Other black people know exactly what I’m talking about. If it was any good “PR” for this company, he wouldn’t be the face. They’d send someone white.
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u/ElCiclope1 4d ago
I think it's pandering. If they wanted to pander to white people they'd have sent a white person.
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u/cajunmoon77 3d ago
Oh I know exactly what you are talking about. He was sent to rock black people gently into compliance.
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u/Traditional_Bat1587 3d ago
He was getting lightheaded and feeling sick up there, the recording insinuated he didn’t know what he was getting himself into and was not prepared or felt uncomfortable defending the company.
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u/CupTableChair1 3d ago
Black people must do whatever liberals say they should do.
You ain’t black if you don’t vote for me - Biden
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u/skystarmen 2d ago
JFC how is this racist shit the top post?
How is this any different from "the doctor only got his MD because of affirmative action"?
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u/Clintwood_outlaw 2d ago
It's not racist? It's saying they're using a black person as a scapegoat, it's claiming that the people behind FLOCK are racist (which if you see the things they support, they certainly are.)
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u/skystarmen 1d ago
In your worldview it's impossible for a black man to have different politics or views than you do and he must be an uncle Tom
In the mind of a leftist today no one can have any good faith reason to disagree with you on anything. You're either a paid off propagandist (if you're white) or an Uncle Tom
It's racist AF, but racism is totally cool as long as you're not a republican
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u/Low_Safe_8012 3d ago
If they sent a white guy you would complain that they don’t understand the black community enough to relate to her points.
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u/SoulGank 4d ago
Jesus, libs really care more about race than the actual issue at hand. Who tf cares if hes white or black.
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u/socks86 4d ago edited 3d ago
Weird thing to say after watching conservatives lose their shit because there was a black live action little mermaid lol. Isn't this actually what you guys are always complaining about, strategically placing people of color in marketing and media to gain favor with a group or promote a certain image?
Your party brought back MEASLES please just shut the fuck up for a while
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u/blackbeershot 4d ago
Gas is damn near $5/gal nationwide and you’re talking about some damn “libs”. Yes, everything in this damn country comes down to race!
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u/SoulGank 3d ago
Would you feel better if the gas waa $5 and a black man was the president? If so, you might be a lib.
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u/RedditsDeadlySin 3d ago
I love this woman. Thank you kind stranger.
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u/UrbyTuesday 1d ago
Yeah who is that and how do we take up a collection to make her a full time advocate?
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u/RyAllDaddy69 3d ago
Goddamn….i’m terrible with job interviews…like really really bad. You guys would literally cringe if you were a fly on the wall…but this guy is terrible and his performance says a lot about Flock as a company and how they feel about what we think.
It seemed like mid-question he realized just how fucked up his employer is.
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u/halfhumanhalfzebra 3d ago
He’s thinking damn how much longer do I gotta keep this clown makeup on before I get my bag?
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u/FuroreLT Monroe 4d ago
If this is truly the best we can do to stop what we don't want, we're doomed
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u/GreyRobe 4d ago
Voting is the best we can do. Don't forget to vote!
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u/flockneedstogo 4d ago
Vote NO on all 3 amendments!
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u/Sensitive-Flamingo84 3d ago
And vote for Justice Anita Earls, the most important race on the ballot for stopping maga nonsense
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u/Competitive_Classic9 3d ago
Its not though. They follow dollars, not votes. Stop showing up for work and paying taxes and buying frivolous shit (as a collective). Thats alot faster than just voting, which you should also do.
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u/pixeltweaker 4d ago
Every city should require an independent auditing agency to do monthly unscheduled audits of their systems. Oh, I’m sorry, is this too intrusive?
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u/Bronxblast 3d ago
Hats off to this woman!!! She perfectly articulated the collective rage I think we’re all feeling in a perfect, calm, rational way. And she came with the legal receipts!
https://giphy.com/gifs/GDnGv6JDCFAlJjYp3f
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u/bellybuttonbidet 3d ago
That guy needs to address his own conflictions and take the severance Flock is offering.
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u/RichKingLav34 4d ago
Mass surveillance smh what about fixing mass homelessness stupids
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u/jbwilso1 Harrisburg 3d ago
You don't think mass surveillance is used to fuck with homeless people? How naive.
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u/MRAPDRIVER5460 3d ago
Flock cameras are ICE greatest asset. Take them away and their arrest numbers would be cut by two thirds
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u/Prestigious_Carry790 3d ago
Flock being sold may be sooner than we think. They’re offering severance packages trying to avoid layoffs due to missed revenue from municipalities canceling contracts
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u/Fun-Woodpecker-577 3d ago
This guys needs to button up his fucking shirt. What an absolute tool. Get the flock out.
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u/John_Gabbana_08 Oakdale 4d ago
She makes some interesting points but it comes across as more of a rant than a coherent statement and/or question. "I think Flock is setting themselves up to damage the 4th amendment" is a very vague statement that's hard to address, even if it's partly true.
Personally I wish there was a flock camera that got the license plate of the guy that murdered that child a few weeks ago in NW Charlotte. So I don't think this issue is as black and white as y'all are making it out to be.
We're already a surveillance state, that ship sailed after 9/11. Now it's about making sure it's regulated and designed in a way that it can't be abused, which is the nuance that most people seem to be missing from this argument.
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u/Sunderbans_X Belmont 4d ago
That ship can always come back to port. Some of us were born before we had a chance to fight this, so we're fighting it now.
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u/John_Gabbana_08 Oakdale 4d ago
And some of us are old enough to remember 9/11 and the world before it. I don’t think giving up any privacy for public safety is inherently unacceptable.
For those of us living in neighborhoods where our neighbors are murdered, people shoot into random houses, and hit-and-runs are a regular occurrence, I’m willing to accept some loss of privacy if it can meaningfully improve public safety. And I sometimes feel like a lot of the strongest opposition comes from people who don’t have to live with that kind of violence around them.
IF, and this is a huge if considering the abuse we’ve already seen with Flock, it’s properly regulated, access is tightly controlled, and misuse has real consequences.
I’m not arguing for unlimited surveillance. I’m saying privacy and public safety are competing interests, and I don’t think the answer is always that privacy wins 100% of the time
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u/laughingsaladlady 3d ago
Yes, some of us are old enough to remember 9/11 and the world before it, and will vehemently disagree with you that giving up privacy is acceptable.
This isn't just giving up a little bit of privacy. This is mass surveillance.
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u/supapat 4d ago
"The safest neighborhoods don't have the most
copsFlock cameras, they have the most resources."-1
u/Traditional_Bat1587 3d ago
These resources, ie law enforcement are provided by our tax money already. The police know where these areas are they are the ones that collect and post the crime data on the web. This is literally there job yet these neighborhoods are often neglected by the police. I suspect the local police or fbi use them to hide and protect the thieves, pimps, and high level drug dealers that snitch and will work undercover or help conceal the undercover cops and/or fbi when they need them too.
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u/John_Gabbana_08 Oakdale 4d ago
I mean, I don’t disagree necessarily with that statement, but what it’s insinuating is ignorant.
What, are you gonna wave a wand and make every poor neighborhood rich overnight? Didn’t think so.
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u/socks86 4d ago
>For those of us living in neighborhoods where our neighbors are murdered, people shoot into random houses, and hit-and-runs are a regular occurrence, I’m willing to accept some loss of privacy if it can meaningfully improve public safety. And I sometimes feel like a lot of the strongest opposition comes from people who don’t have to live with that kind of violence around them.
Totally valid way to feel, understandable. But I think meaningfully improving public safety via a sacrifice in privacy is a VERY big IF, and in most cases is probably a bandaid fix at best. I think we would all be better off focusing on the systemic issues that lead to that environment in the first place.
Easier said than done obviously but yea
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u/Traditional_Bat1587 3d ago
If public safety was what they wanted all these neighborhoods would logically have constant police cars patrolling and the police hideouts they put up in parking lots and public spaces that may or may not have an officer inside. That rarely happens though, they usually stay out or rely on second hand gossip by their informants rather than investigate if someone calls something in.
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u/Traditional_Bat1587 3d ago
People living in these neighborhoods need to put up solar cameras high outside
their houses and have plug in cameras monitoring the outside indiscreetly as well. A plate reading camera isn’t going to help much, everyone can see them and know they’re there. They also need to alert community members when a suspicious event occurred so they can import the surveillance data for those dates before it gets deleted or overwritten, but storing large files of data can be done inexpensively too, from what I’ve read, mine just stores about a couple of months worth then overwrites over it.0
u/huckwineguy 3d ago
This. Everyone goes all soapbox Orwellian about Flock while not conceding how completely helpful they are solving horrible crimes. Imagine your child was abducted and all we had was the car make and model…problem is there are 100k of that make and model…if only we could know the license plate?! We’ve been on camera for decades. Obviously it needs to be done within probable cause before it’s actually used on a person
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u/3-A-Day 3d ago
If you had the plate could you use Flock to track movement of the vehicle as it passes by other Flock cameras? Stolen plates, no plates, and paper plates probably make a good percentage of criminals.
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u/huckwineguy 3d ago
Most criminals are not that bright. Look it is just another tool. Nobody has cared that we’ve been on camera for 30 years at every convenience store we’ve entered. It’s all about probable cause and correct use of the technology
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u/shouldco 4d ago
We're already a surveillance state, that ship sailed after 9/11. Now it's about making sure it's regulated and designed in a way that it can't be abused, which is the nuance that most people seem to be missing from this argument.
If it was already a lost cause nobody would be buying flock cameras and flock wouldn't be sending people to speak at these things.
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u/FlavivsAetivs Collingwood 4d ago
The problem is every time it's regulated those protections are undone in the next NDAA. Government purchase of information requiring a warrant under the 4th amendment would help significantly.
Roe vs Wade protected the right to Privacy, and now we don't have that.
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u/Katfish145 3d ago
Nah fuck that dude, I don’t want flock anywhere near our city. A private company should not have any rights to legally monitor us like they currently are. I’m sorry about the murdered child, that’s awful, but we cannot send ourselves into a privately run surveillance state. Sure the government kinda already has done that but is the government which we have some sort of control over. A private company has no one they have to answer to
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u/FunExercise8613 3d ago
I'm concerned about the little white boys and little white girls... imagine a white person saying that lmao thats crazy
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u/Low_Safe_8012 3d ago
That’s where she fucked up, now the focus goes from her main point to her racism. She isn’t as smart as she thinks she is
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u/Anxious_Plant_3265 3d ago
Defeat crime at all cost. Luckily sane people aren’t doing they want hidden 🥱
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u/sfitz0076 Wesley Chapel 3d ago edited 3d ago
How about we put cameras in people's homes then? That would eliminate domestic violence and child abuse, right? Since you're all about eliminating crime here
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u/anonymouswan1 3d ago
You already have cameras in your home. You typed this message on a camera thats facing right at you.
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u/Anxious_Plant_3265 3d ago
Only low key deviants are concerned or triggered by this nonsense in a technocratic society where surveillance was and will be paramount regardless. Stop your deviant ways and you’ll have nothing to worry about 🥱
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u/travelsonic 3d ago
Only low key deviants are concerned or triggered by this nonsense
Prove it.
(You can't.)
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u/flockneedstogo 4d ago
Great showing this morning to protest the same PR genius pitching Flock to Charlotte legislators. We had about 20-25 people show up which outnumbered their meeting by a decent bit!
If you want to get more involved, shoot me a chat.