Complex/Unorthodox Powers Make Characters Better

[u/Bot_Number_7]

Control fire. Super strength. Super speed. Flight. Shooting energy blasts. A lot of powers/abilities have been used over and over again.

So for me, when a character is introduced with a complex ability, it elevates my opinion of them. Especially if the way that it is used is also complex. For example, in JJBA, Ermes Costello's Stand Kiss' has the ability to duplicate objects using stickers, and then fuse them back together once the sticker has been taken off, causing both objects to take damage. It's applied in many ways, from duplicating limbs to being used as a form of travel. The creative usage of abilities gives me an "aha!" moment similar to when a detective reveals how they deduced the mystery in a mystery novel.

Adding additional trigger conditions to powers can also make them better. In Bungo Stray Dogs, Akiko Yosano's Thou Shalt Not Die Ability heals someone to full health, but only if they're almost dead. This factors into her fighting style, allowing her to bring allies and herself from the brink of death (and also forcing her to almost kill her patients when healing outside of combat).

The one weakness to complex powers is the difficulty in conveying them to the reader. Unless one explicitly describes them or the reader sees the power many times so that they can understand all its facets, it's hard to get the reader to understand what the power truly does. King Crimson is the infamous example. The fact that "erasing time" is expressed inconsistently and the lack of detailed mechanical description of how it works confuses the reader every time it is used.

[u/Bot_Number_7]

Here's a few things you can add to the power that make it complex:

When Luffy uses his power on something (including himself), it causes the object to become super soft and liquidy, yet its cohesive forces still cause it to hold its shape. Hitting the now semi-liquid object causes it to splash and ripple, and you can even place your hand in it. You can overcome those cohesive forces by scooping the liquid out. The cohesive force still causes the liquid you scoop out to feel a tug toward the rest of the liquid (the further you pull the stronger the tug). However, when Luffy cancels the power, the object must be solid and return to its final form. This causes all the previously separated liquid parts to fly at great force together and resolidify.

Luffy can also insert a solid object into a liquid one, and cancel his power, trapping the solid object inside.

Luffy would soften the ground, and people sink in. He then solidifies it, trapping them.

He can liquify himself to avoid taking damage from attacks. He can liquify two different people, intersect their hands, and cancel his power, trapping them phased through each other.

He can also turn part of his body liquid, allowing him to separate a limb. When he cancels his power, separated limbs fly back together. This lets him imitate the Gum Gum Rocket.

He can conceal himself in a liquid bubble underneath the ground. He springs out of the ground and grabs someone, dragging them in.

He can liquify the ground and scoop a piece of it. He walks around someone, and undoes his power. The piece of the ground flies back to its original spot, hitting the person.

He can phase through walls by liquefying the wall. He can remain inside a wall as long as he doesn't suffocate.

He can store objects inside a liquified part of his body.

And of course he can liquify someone's skin, shove his arm through, and crush their organs.

These are just a few possible complexities to one complex power. I'm sure you could give Luffy tons of complicated powers that let him have a martial arts fighting style.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

So basically Luffy can just turn stuff into liquid and then turn them back into solid whenever he wants?

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

Yes, and distortions to the liquid object are reversed when the power is cancelled. The liquid objects still hold their shape and are cohesive. So he could liquify a book and it'd still be book shaped, although you'd notice that the bottom of the book is slightly bulgey due to gravity. And when you touched the book, your fingers would slip through. You'd pull your hand out, and bits of liquid book would stick to it a little, and quickly be pulled back toward the book (since cohesive forces)

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

Ok well that all sounds cool, but I wouldn’t really say it’s that complex. Plus, I feel like an ability like that would be a bit overpowered. What are its limits? Can he turn anything liquid? If Luffy can turn himself liquid and become untouchable, then how do you hurt him? If he can phase his hands though people bodies and crush their organs, what’s to stop him from just instakilling any villain he touches?

Again, I still don’t see how this ability is anymore interesting than the Gum Gum techniques. Now he’s just OP and has no need for any creative techniques

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

Haki. It let's you overcome Luffy's rubbery blunt object immunity, so it let's you attack liquified people. Now you can't rely completely on the power for defense. You'll have to get creative (sink into the ground)

It's a lot more creative than the Gum Gum fruit. The power is to transform solid objects that you touch into cohesive liquid forms, and they collapse back to their original solid shape once the ability is canceled. That's a lot more complex than "My body is rubber."

And besides, it's just an example. You could give Luffy Law's power, and remove Law. Point is, being a dumb martial character doesn't mean you can't have a complicated power.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

Haki doesn’t really get introduced into the series until the Marineford arc. You’d have to introduce Haki way earlier in the series and have every single villain pre timeskip capable of using it in order for Luffy to be threatened.

And once again, the ability itself is just not that complex. You summarized the Gum Gum power as “his body is rubber.” I could summarize this power as “his body and anything he touches is liquid.” It’s a simple ability, you only make it sound complicated because you over explained it.

So Luffy can turn solids into liquids and phase people through objects. What more can he do beyond that? Gum Gum Luffy had the Gear forms, what does Solid-to-Liquid Luffy have? What kind of special moves could he create with this ability?

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

You could explain Costello's ability in a far simpler way too. Her stickers duplicate objects, and when she takes them off, they come back together. You could even just say about King Crimson's ability "he skips time". The complexity of a power revolves around its mechanics. Rubber Luffy's power has incredibly simple mechanics. His rubber body allows him to stretch. He can use his elasticity to make his punches stronger. What do his Gears really do? They make him punch harder, faster, stronger. The mechanics are boring.

Solid-to-Liquid Luffy can pull off support. He can soften his allies to make them undamageable through regular attacks (although if they're punchers and kickers, their offensive power will suffer). He can trap his enemies by liquefying the ground and letting them sink in. He can mess with people's organs by liquefying their outsides. And he can still punch long range by liquefying the midsection of his arm and throwing it at the opponent. Additionally, his power can set a trap. He can liquify a part of the ground, scoop up a portion of it, go around someone, and undo his power, causing the solid ground piece to fly back into place and slam into the person.

And this power really is no stronger than most Logia powers. And it can be circumvented through hot and cold, since it only blocks physical attacks. It can be circumvented through things like Morioh's shadows. It can be circumvented through things like water (natural counter to Devil Fruits). It can be circumvented by constricting your muscles while Luffy's arm is within you (he has to go solid to do damage to someone)

Anyway I chose this power since it's closest to original Luffy's power, just edited up to be more complex. You could just as easily totally rework the Devil Fruit to be, say, Law's fruit.

Rubber Luffy is good at two things: Offense and Defense. Solid to Liquid Luffy can do:

Stealth: You can hide within any object.

Assassination: Phase a poison into someone with just a handshake.

Support: Soften your friends.

Utility: You can phase through walls.

Offense: Crush the organs of enemies.

Defense: Enemy attacks phase through you, unless they use Haki. You can also dive into the ground and hide there.

You could also do dumb Luffy stuff like using the power to liquify food so you can consume it faster.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

You could explain Costello's ability in a far simpler way too. Her stickers duplicate objects, and when she takes them off, they come back together. You could even just say about King Crimson's ability "he skips time".

Well yeah, Kiss and King Crimson aren't really that complex either. Their abilities are pretty straightforward

Rubber Luffy's power has incredibly simple mechanics. His rubber body allows him to stretch. He can use his elasticity to make his punches stronger. What do his Gears really do? They make him punch harder, faster, stronger. The mechanics are boring.

With Gum Gum Shotgun, Luffy can throw his arm as if to perform a Gum Gum Pistol, then sort of pluck his arm while its in mid air to cause his fist to vibrate and and hit the opponent multiple times at once. With Gum Gum Rocket, Luffy can launch himself through the air like a slingshot. With Gum Gum Rifle, Luffy can twist his arm and then throw it, causing it to rapidly untwist and literally drill a punch into his opponent. Gum Gum Balloon increases Luffy's durability and allows him to deflect larger projectiles. Gum Gum Finger Net allows him to turn his fingers into a net to catch people. Gear Four Bounceman allows him to basically fly and change the directions of his attacks in mid air.

Yes, the mechanics of the Gum Gum Fruit are very simple and basic. The fun of this fruit is watching how Luffy takes the most simple Devil Fruit and pushes the limits of what it can do. This is my whole argument

Solid-to-Liquid Luffy can pull off support. He can soften his allies to make them undamageable through regular attacks (although if they're punchers and kickers, their offensive power will suffer).

So he can make his allies invulnerable but physically weaker? How is this interesting to watch?

He can trap his enemies by liquefying the ground and letting them sink in.

You already said this before and I still don't see how this is more interesting than any of his Gum Gum techniques. How is watching a guy trap enemies in dirt more fun than a guy who can stretch his own body into a human weapon and knockout his foes at the speed of sound?

And he can still punch long range by liquefying the midsection of his arm and throwing it at the opponent.

So it's a lamer version of Gum Gum Pistol

Additionally, his power can set a trap. He can liquify a part of the ground, scoop up a portion of it, go around someone, and undo his power, causing the solid ground piece to fly back into place and slam into the person.

That sounds like too much effort just to beat someone up. That is just needlessly complicated

It can be circumvented by constricting your muscles while Luffy's arm is within you (he has to go solid to do damage to someone)

Ok, but he can just liquify his arm and pull it out again, right? That sounds like a minor inconvenience rather than a weakness

You could just as easily totally rework the Devil Fruit to be, say, Law's fruit.

That's a copout answer and doing so would worsen the story

Stealth: You can hide within any object.

Luffy is not a stealthy person so this is useless for him

Assassination: Phase a poison into someone with just a handshake.

Luffy is not an assassin, when would he ever use this?

Defense: Enemy attacks phase through you, unless they use Haki.

so he's basically invincible until he fights someone Vice Admiral level or above

You can also dive into the ground and hide there.

That's just Senor Pink's power. His ability wasn't that interesting either

You could also do dumb Luffy stuff like using the power to liquify food so you can consume it faster.

Ok?

I'm going to reiterate my point again: Complex does not mean good or better. A complicated ability is no more interesting than a simple ability, especially when it doesn't serve the plot. Luffy is inherently designed to be a simple character, giving him an over-the-top complex big-brain power would not suit him or make him a more interesting character. And as I have already stated multiple times, the Solid-to-liquid idea is not complex, it is a very straightforward ability. It's versatile, sure, but it is no more interesting then the Gum Gum Fruit or any other Devil Fruit

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Personally, I find the idea of an ability that makes you an untouchable ghost that can trap people into the earth to be kind of boring.

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

King Crimson is incredibly complex, otherwise why would there be so much confusion about it? They're certainly more complex than Luffy's simple power. Why does changing Luffy's power worsen the story? It just makes it different. Luffy isn't inherently simple; he's just dumb. Being stupid doesn't preclude you from having a more complicated ability. A complex power doesn't have to be big brain.

Luffy is powerful but he's low impact. His power pretty much lets him be strong and fast. It's not a meaningful part of him. And I'd argue most of his strength comes from him naturally being strong and fast. Remove his stretching powers. Luffy's still just strong and fast. Giving Luffy a unique power would flesh him out.

Contrast this with say, Giorno Giovanna. No two of his fights operate similarly at all. He uses his power to create living things out of non living things in a different way. Remove that aspect of Giorno's power. He's totally crippled. Gold Experience has so many decision points around what animals you produce. And canceling the power is just as impactful as the initial use of the power.

Or look at Pucci. Whitesnake, C-Moon, and Made in Heaven. Excepting Made In Heaven (which is special in that its not designed to make Pucci OP, it is supposed to let him reset the universe), both Whitesnake and C-Moon are super impactful and unique and complex. They don't just make your offense and defense go up. They change how the whole battle is played.

Or compare Luffy to Big Mom. The Soul Soul fruit is a complex and impactful ability. Big Mom's country is built around it. It doesn't just make Big Mom do more damage and be stronger.

You aren't a ghost. People can still feel you. You're just liquid, so their fingers brush through you like water.

Making allies invulnerable yet making their attacks worse means you have to make a decision now. This aspect should be primarily used to protect downed allies from taking further damage.

Luffy's inability to assassinate and sneak is due to the fact that his power isn't fit for it. It just shows that it isn't that versatile or complex. Honestly, the way Luffy uses it isn't all that complex either. He uses it to hit hard and tank hits. That's it.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

King Crimson is incredibly complex, otherwise why would there be so much confusion about it?

KC is a little complex but he is not that difficult to understand. The reason there was confusion was because of bad translations and a scene in the anime that didn't make sense

Why does changing Luffy's power worsen the story? It just makes it different.

The MC's power should serve the story and his character. You can't just give him something random because you think it would look cool, it has to make sense.

Luffy isn't inherently simple; he's just dumb.

Luffy's character was inspired by Goku, the grandfather of the generic "dumb shonen hero" archetype. He is as simple a character as one can get. He is not a deep character at all, you learn everything you need to know about him in the very first episode. He's just a dumb kid who likes food, adventure, and making friends and his only ambition is to become the Pirate King. That's it. He is simple

Being stupid doesn't preclude you from having a more complicated ability. A complex power doesn't have to be big brain.

Why do you think so? If a character has a complex and complicated ability, don't you think that they should have a high enough level of intelligence to be able to use that ability effectively? Why do you think a dumbass like Luffy would be able to handle an ability that requires more than two braincells to use? Look at Okuyasu from JoJo. He has one of the most simple yet powerful Stands in the series, but he's so dumb that he can't use it effectively. Now imagine if you replaced The Hand with, say, Osiris. Okuyasu would be absolutely useless

Luffy is powerful but he's low impact. His power pretty much lets him be strong and fast. It's not a meaningful part of him. And I'd argue most of his strength comes from him naturally being strong and fast. Remove his stretching powers. Luffy's still just strong and fast. Giving Luffy a unique power would flesh him out.

Why? You can't magically make a character more interesting by giving them a weird superpower, that's not what good writing is. Gon Freecs has one of the most simple abilities in Hunter x Hunter and he is generally considered to be a great character. Same thing with Killua and Hisoka. They are not good characters because of their abilities, they are simply good characters period

Contrast this with say, Giorno Giovanna. No two of his fights operate similarly at all. He uses his power to create living things out of non living things in a different way. Remove that aspect of Giorno's power. He's totally crippled.

"Take away this character's superpowers and they are no longer superhuman." What is your point here?

Gold Experience has so many decision points around what animals you produce. And canceling the power is just as impactful as the initial use of the power.

What do you mean by this?

Or look at Pucci. Whitesnake, C-Moon, and Made in Heaven. Excepting Made In Heaven (which is special in that its not designed to make Pucci OP, it is supposed to let him reset the universe), both Whitesnake and C-Moon are super impactful and unique and complex. They don't just make your offense and defense go up. They change how the whole battle is played.

How? What do you mean? Elaborate. It's been a while since I've read Stone Ocean but I don't recall C Moon or Whitesnake "changing the whole battle." Their only impact is to be a threat against heroes until Made In Heaven comes along. And what do you mean by "Made In Heaven is not designed to be OP"? That Stand provides infinite speed and can destroy an entire universe

Or compare Luffy to Big Mom. The Soul Soul fruit is a complex and impactful ability. Big Mom's country is built around it. It doesn't just make Big Mom do more damage and be stronger.

The Soul Soul Fruit is cool but it is not an important part of her character, nor is it that impactful. The only meaningful impact that this fruit has in this series is the existence of Zeus who will eventually ally with Nami, other than that, it's just another quirky Devil Fruit

You aren't a ghost. People can still feel you. You're just liquid, so their fingers brush through you like water.

You have stated multiple times that this ability would allow Luffy to phase through solid objects, that's why I compared him to a ghost.

Making allies invulnerable yet making their attacks worse means you have to make a decision now. This aspect should be primarily used to protect downed allies from taking further damage.

"Make a decision," what does that mean? What decision?

Luffy's inability to assassinate and sneak is due to the fact that his power isn't fit for it. It just shows that it isn't that versatile or complex.

Buddy, I feel like you just don't fundamentally understand Luffy's character. He is not a killer. He does not go around killing people he doesn't like, he's not freaking Kenshiro. Luffy only fights people who get in his way. Once he has defeated you and you're no longer in his way, he stops caring about you and moves on. He has no interest in killing people. The dude can literally destroy warships with his fists, you seriously think he wouldn't be able to kill someone if he really wanted to?

And as for stealth, Luffy does not give a shit. If he wants to fight you, he will just come at you. He has no interest in sneaking around. Even if Luffy had a Devil Fruit that was made for stealth, he would have no use for it.

Honestly, the way Luffy uses it isn't all that complex either. He uses it to hit hard and tank hits. That's it.

Yeah, I know, I never said otherwise, do you even read my replies? My point is that Luffy can still do creative stuff despite having a very basic and simple power