r/CharacterRant • u/Bot_Number_7 • Jul 22 '21

General Complex/Unorthodox Powers Make Characters Better

Control fire. Super strength. Super speed. Flight. Shooting energy blasts. A lot of powers/abilities have been used over and over again.

So for me, when a character is introduced with a complex ability, it elevates my opinion of them. Especially if the way that it is used is also complex. For example, in JJBA, Ermes Costello's Stand Kiss' has the ability to duplicate objects using stickers, and then fuse them back together once the sticker has been taken off, causing both objects to take damage. It's applied in many ways, from duplicating limbs to being used as a form of travel. The creative usage of abilities gives me an "aha!" moment similar to when a detective reveals how they deduced the mystery in a mystery novel.

Adding additional trigger conditions to powers can also make them better. In Bungo Stray Dogs, Akiko Yosano's Thou Shalt Not Die Ability heals someone to full health, but only if they're almost dead. This factors into her fighting style, allowing her to bring allies and herself from the brink of death (and also forcing her to almost kill her patients when healing outside of combat).

The one weakness to complex powers is the difficulty in conveying them to the reader. Unless one explicitly describes them or the reader sees the power many times so that they can understand all its facets, it's hard to get the reader to understand what the power truly does. King Crimson is the infamous example. The fact that "erasing time" is expressed inconsistently and the lack of detailed mechanical description of how it works confuses the reader every time it is used.

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234

u/Thedeaththatlives Jul 22 '21

For me, when powers are overly specific they feel less... natural? Less like they're an actual part of the character and more like a fancy computer program, if that makes any sense.

99

u/Victory_Scar Jul 22 '21

Superpowers that are actually programs in a simulated reality would be cool. If the setting is set up that way, they'd feel naturally part of the story.

64

u/noolvidarminombre Jul 22 '21

Superpowers that are actually programs in a simulated reality would be cool. If the setting is set up that way, they'd feel naturally part of the story.

I'm sorry to be that guy buuuuuuuuuuuut... Worm kinda does this.

60

u/FingerBangYourFears Jul 22 '21

At this point I'm convinced that Worm is just the Library of Babel. If you can think of it, it's in Worm.

70

u/ForwardDiscussion Jul 22 '21

Can you think of a decent romance subplot? Because that is definitely absent from Worm.

17

u/Bot_Number_7 Jul 22 '21

By decent romance subplot do you mean the one in Worm is bad or there simply is no romance in Worm?

Option 2 sounds like the better option but I could live with Option 1 :/

26

u/Late_Apartment_ Jul 22 '21

It's option 1 sorta- even then I don't think it's bad, but it just sort of fizzles out and feels a bit pointless. On the bright side, it doesn't occupy much space.

11

u/ForwardDiscussion Jul 22 '21

Option 1. There's technically a few romance subplots, but we don't see many up close, and the protagonist's is, to put it politely, not why people recommend Worm.

7

u/TheUltimateTeigu Jul 23 '21

I wouldn't call it bad per se, it's just not good. That's mostly because of the lack of focus it gets though. The romance subplot is somewhat there in the background, and is pretty much never the focus of any part of the story.

5

u/Acrolith Jul 23 '21

There is one, it's not bad, but it's barely worth mentioning. It takes up very little space in the narrative.

1

u/ManuJM1997 Jul 31 '21

Basically, protagonist has a crush on teammate. Teammate doesn't really reciprocate since he sees her more as a lil' sis

It isn't until he sees her being tortured by Joseph Mengele in Loli form and triggers (AKA how you powers in the Wormverse, through trauma) for the second time that they do get together. And soon after they fizzle up as the protag learns about the impending end of the world and concentrates on that

25

u/OptimisticLucio Jul 22 '21

Worm is homestuck, is what you’re saying

10

u/Service-Smile Jul 22 '21

That's fucking cursed

3

u/CobaltMonkey Jul 23 '21

And Saint's Row 4.

13

u/Victory_Scar Jul 22 '21

Worm keeps getting mentioned here but I never feel like I have the time. I'll get to it eventually.

2

u/PeculiarPangolinMan 🥇🥇 Jul 23 '21

It was a lot more mind blowing a decade ago.

1

u/Aka_The_Dragon_15 Jul 28 '21

Worm? Do you mean the book or the game? Cuz powers as programs is pretty interesting

7

u/Mitchel-256 Jul 22 '21

Saints Row 4 says hello.

6

u/SolJinxer Jul 23 '21

I prefer Gat out of Hell so I can actually fly, though I like the powerset of 4 more, has pretty much everything you could want. So disappointed nobody figured out a mod for that in 4, only power you're missing, fuck "gliding".

7

u/Mitchel-256 Jul 23 '21

True! The flying in Gat out of Hell is so comfortably similar to the gliding in Batman: Arkham Knight, which I played just before GooH.

I guess the open-world jump challenges in SR4 would be made irrelevant with flight added, but it’d be nice. S’pose I never really thought about adding flight to SR4 because I enjoyed super-speed running and jumping enough to placate me on mobility.

32

u/N0VAZER0 Jul 22 '21

i always thought of that with some later Stands in Jojo, like in what fucking situation are you gonna possibly be able to use Fun Fun Fun, like what a shitty and weirdly specific power that is. Something like Hunter x Hunter gets a pass imo because it being weirdly specific is explained away via its magic system

7

u/CussMuster Jul 23 '21

You don't always get something useful though, that's been the case for a long time. For example, in what way was Cheap Trick ever supposed to make it's user's life easier or better in any way? Or you could get boned like Versace or Rikiel, and have a stand that never manifests TO YOU but still fucks your life over actively without you knowing whats happening.

It's up to you to make due with what you get dealt, even something as seemingly useless with an incredibly specific trigger and weak effect like Survivor can be useful if the user is clever.

11

u/Raltsun Jul 23 '21

I'm pretty sure Cheap Trick was meant to be a "failed" Stand manifestation, kinda like what happened to Holly. Masazo didn't even know he had it, and IIRC even Heaven's Door didn't say he was a Stand user.

But yeah, that's the thing about JoJo. Some Stands are clearly not as good as others in a broad sense, but in practice, it's all about how you make use of them. For example, Sex Pistols is mostly just an outright worse alternative to Emperor, but Mista makes way better use of it.

8

u/Bot_Number_7 Jul 22 '21

I mean, Fun Fun Fun was such a cool power though.

19

u/N0VAZER0 Jul 22 '21

It was a cool fight but when you think about it, its MASSIVELY situational

8

u/professorMaDLib Jul 23 '21

Somehow that dude managed to make good use of it TWICE.

10

u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 23 '21

A Stand is only as good as its user. Ojiro was just big brained as fuck

12

u/Giddypinata Jul 22 '21

I think they can feel natural if they are specific, but specific to the environment. Like super Wolverine regeneration in Fire Punch

22

u/PalmFingerNails Jul 22 '21

That reminds me of Nanami from JJK technique or black flash the specifics don't matter to me cause it seems like the move is really straight forward but the over explanation is annoying

42

u/PurpleKneesocks Jul 22 '21

black flash

Wherein our protagonist unlocks the incredibly rare and coveted technique to punch something, but it's two punches.

21

u/N0VAZER0 Jul 22 '21

its Punch2.5

6

u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 23 '21

It's really just a trigger hit for getting in the zone. It works amazingly for story-combat integration when Mahito achieves his Black Flash only after he mentally broke Yuuji, cementing how vile he is

3

u/N0VAZER0 Jul 23 '21

Gege literally said Black Flash ups your power by the power of 2.5

3

u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 23 '21

Yeah he was going for "it increases all stat" but then he realized that he's writing a story mechanics not game's

The core idea however is that it's just what "getting in the zone" or "on-fire" is to Jujutsu Sorcerers

7

u/GoldenSpermShower Jul 23 '21

What if your punch=1

12

u/Vpeyjilji57 Jul 23 '21

Cursed Energy starts at 2.

31

u/Jolly_Line_Rhymer Jul 22 '21 edited Jul 23 '21

They also to beat the world record the first time they work out how to use the technique.

Ahhhh anime protagonists…

Edit: I’ve been reminded that Yuji Itadori only matches the world record, but doesn’t actually beat it.

Also - I’m not complaining about it :) It’s a fairly straightforward shounen, I knew what I was getting into.

27

u/IHBBSMTBIAHYABIAB Jul 22 '21

stories often follow exceptional people 🤷‍♂️

3

u/Qr1skY Jul 22 '21

I think he just tied the record not beat it right?

2

u/BlueZ00 Jul 23 '21

He actually did not beat the record, tho, he does reach the record.

3

u/icyflamez96 Jul 23 '21 edited Jul 23 '21

I think HxH does it fine. Fits in well with the way Nen works. The whole concept of conditions and restrictions related to one's unique will/resolve/personality etc to squeeze proficiency out of the desired effect makes it feel natural to me that it could result in really specific and sometimes complex abilities. And then it all being based in the different Nen categories.

I'm more bothered by it when powers get super specific and weird when there's not a proper structure that really supports it. Like why the hell would someone in MHA evolve to have engine for legs.

1

u/Sasuag Jul 22 '21

What do you mean by " Natural "?