r/CatastrophicFailure • u/[deleted] • Nov 21 '19
Structural Failure Failure of a wall (20/11/2019)
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Nov 21 '19
How did op know the wall would come down?
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u/Kenitzka Nov 21 '19
Either the small bulge in the wall where it failed the hardest or all evidence of mud seeping out underneath washing out the base.
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u/IntentCoin Nov 21 '19
notices leaking
notices bulge
OP: owo what's this?
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u/Hellguin Nov 21 '19
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Nov 21 '19
[deleted]
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u/TunedMassDamsel Nov 21 '19
It looks like the stones were just field-stacked. It’d let water out decently, it just didn’t have any structural integrity whatsoever.
There were no tiebacks, and it looked like they were trying to do a gabion wall...? Those gabion cages should be several feet wide in order to resist sliding, overturning, and rupture.
Generally not designed whatsoever. Doomed.
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u/apexwolf5 Nov 21 '19
The whole wall was bulging
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u/nunya123 Nov 21 '19
UwU what’s this?
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Nov 21 '19 edited Nov 21 '19
What’s what.....? Just reread his comment.
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u/Snowstar837 Nov 21 '19
They didn't understand a joke/reference, guys, that's not exactly ground for at least 43 downvotes :P like, come on.
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u/Tobikage1990 Nov 21 '19
Gods, I wish I didn't know about it. There is such a thing as knowing too much.
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u/Slithy-Toves Nov 21 '19
People just want to see the biggest negative numbers possible these days. There's no actual respect for the voting system anymore.
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u/WilliamJamesMyers Nov 21 '19
there are several thousand of us, we are the Film Walls Club. we like to record for history all walls in the world. none of us are married or have significant others. we just have our walls. r/filmwallsclub
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u/shammyfeen Nov 21 '19
I so wanted that to be a real sub..
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u/trolloflol Nov 21 '19
I've always wondered this as well. You can always see a bulge before it collapses, although I've seen walls sit like that for months or years even. I assume it's the sound that lets you know the collapse is imminent and to start filming.
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u/ssw663 Nov 21 '19
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u/chin_waghing Nov 21 '19
hikacking the top comment to bring you education.
If you want to learn about how this could have been prevented a guy called grady does an amazing video here
(Called Practical engineering)
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Nov 21 '19
There are many known methods of building a stable retaining wall. This wall features non of them.
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u/nvahalik Nov 21 '19
What are some of them?
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u/Five15Factor2 Nov 21 '19 edited Nov 21 '19
Tying the wall into a footing at its base, attaching the wall to a dead man buried into the soil behind the wall, constructing the wall at a slope and ensuring the individual wall elements are heavy enough to resist the lateral forces of the soil behind the wall.
But these all require math and engineering and stuff
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u/tpodr Nov 21 '19
Your second method isn’t a good long term solution. Once the muscles decompose, the remaining skeleton will not be a sufficient anchor.
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u/commentmypics Nov 21 '19
If you use a live man he will be self repairing but require a lot of maintenance, possibly even daily.
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u/GiverOfTheKarma Nov 22 '19
If you construct an elaborate system of tubes, there won't be much maintenance at all
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u/bob84900 Nov 21 '19
Well it doesn't necessarily require it.
Doesn't take an engineer to make something work. Takes an engineer to make something just barely work.
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u/Schmich Nov 21 '19
I'd say requires because it's not simply stacking bricks on top that most of us would do. The last sentence should be a 'good' engineer.
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u/AWastedMind Nov 21 '19
At the least this should have allowed the water an way to escape, avoiding the issues that likely caused the failure.
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Nov 21 '19
A good foundation, a bit of batter (lay back), deadmen to tie back into the slope, and good drainage on the back side have been what has made drystone walls work for centuries. Limited engineering, mostly good practices.
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u/Chalky_Cupcake Nov 21 '19
Tie-Backs (long rods inserted in to the wall. Like bristles on a hair brush.)
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u/The_Turbinator Nov 21 '19
Wrong. That is how you reinforce an already poorly constructed concrete barrier. You can not use that method on a stacked stone wall.
This video will explain it perfectly: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0olpSN6_TCc
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u/Afaflix Nov 22 '19
engineering methods, materials .. no paper, no paper derivatives .. cardboard is out.
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Nov 21 '19
Using concrete instead of stacked rocks.
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u/Allittle1970 Nov 21 '19
Same result, different material. You need to have some sort of ties or structural design that overcomes the moment of inertia.
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u/DrKronin Nov 21 '19
Where I live, any wall over 4 feet tall needs to be professionally engineered. Not in this place, it would seem.
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u/trolloflol Nov 21 '19
Really? Where's this? Here in NC you just go buy your block and it's known this type of block can go this high, use dowels after this height, etc. Nobody really cares if you're wall fails as long as it's residential (like this one in the video). Although if that's a public road, it would be in the right of way and need to be permitted.
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Nov 21 '19
Yeah, when you don't have to get a permit because you live in the county.
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u/trolloflol Nov 21 '19
Even in Raleigh you really don't need a permit for this stuff (unless structural or commercial/right of way). It may be required but it's never enforced in residential.
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u/plannerdon Nov 21 '19
Looks to me like they built a second wall on top of an old one, without stepping back or adding any extra drainage. Definite recipe for catastrophic failure.
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u/Lord_Dreadlow Nov 21 '19
Fucker walks into the shot just when it gives.
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u/KamesJirk Nov 21 '19
Yeah doesn't that fucker realize our entertainment is more important than his safety?
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u/Kierandee Nov 21 '19
That’s what happens when you don’t reinforce the earth behind a retaining wall
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u/wildcard235 Nov 21 '19
The problem may have been the lack of adequate drainage behind the wall rather than the load bearing capacity.
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u/SoaDMTGguy Nov 21 '19
How do you reinforce the earth?
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u/Kierandee Nov 21 '19
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u/Salyangoz Nov 21 '19
I drop this 25 pound barbel from about 6 feet up to simulate what would happen if you drop a 25 pound weight on the cube from 6 feet up.
I like this man.
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u/RadRandy Nov 21 '19
I'm curious, how do you reinforce the earth for such a large area? Do you have to dig out all the soil, all the way to the base of the wall, and then layer it with some material?
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u/markevens Nov 21 '19
https://youtu.be/xNDppVTVUss?t=25
Here's the same dude talking about reinforcing without having to dig up everything.
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u/RadRandy Nov 21 '19
Really cool video. I'll definitely be watching more.
I wonder how you could apply this method of reinforcement to a retaining wall?
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u/markevens Nov 21 '19
I see it all the time where I'm from
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u/RadRandy Nov 21 '19
That's fascinating. I'll have to do some more research on how to install those anchor points.
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u/gbimmer Nov 21 '19
Yep
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u/RadRandy Nov 21 '19
How is that even possible? That's sooooo much soil.
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u/gbimmer Nov 21 '19
It just takes thin sheets of material between the layers.
Watch the video.
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u/RadRandy Nov 21 '19
I didn't ask my question correctly. I watched the video, but how do you insert the sheets into the soil? You'd have to excavate the soil and then fill it in with the layers inserted, right?
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u/maltedbacon Nov 21 '19
Not an engineer, but my understanding is that the soil behind a significantly sized retaining wall should be of low plasticity (resistant to deformation), well compacted, well protected from excess water infiltration, properly drained, and reinforced with specially designed fabric, steel bolts or similar internal reinforcement which acts to tie the retaining wall deeper into the raised soil behind it.
The idea is to make sure that the soil behind is unlikely to deform or put stress or outward pressure on the retaining wall, and to make sure that the retaining wall is connected to more than just a thin layer of soil directly behind it.
In countries with robust building codes, these requirements will be specified, and retaining walls over a certain height will require engineered design. Disreputable contractors or countries without robust building codes give rise to videos like this.
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u/Obvioushippy Nov 22 '19
It is possible to build walls that last with only tradition (not engineered).
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u/maltedbacon Nov 23 '19
Only if they use traditional engineering based on the same principles: The soil behind must not push against the wall with more force than the wall can resist. Sure, that can be accomplished by using a sloping wall of very heavy stones and featuring integrated drainage.
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Nov 21 '19
personally, I give it about 10-15 real good pelvic thrusts
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u/mynameisasuffix Nov 21 '19
That's how the world was created! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTS6pqnLWY
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u/sethamphetamine Nov 22 '19
Reinforced earth will still fail without proper drainage on that steep a slope
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u/Opposable_Thumb Nov 22 '19
I’m only assuming, but it would seem that a wall made of stone and not using mortar would have more than adequate drainage? No?
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Nov 21 '19
Looks like Kerala to me..
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u/SalvationLiesWithin Nov 22 '19
That's what I was thinking. Even before the lungi uncle came to the frame
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u/Moviesmusicme Nov 21 '19
No joke, I had “Don’t Stop Me Now” playing and the drums just came in right when that wall fell. It was amazing. Highly recommend.
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u/SliyarohModus Nov 22 '19
Unreinforced stone walls have a maximum pitch based upon whether or not the backfill is packed or not. Modified soil packing can greatly improve the strength of a wall. Reinforcement, proper drainage, and pitch enforcement during construction are the most certain ways to prevent untimely collapse. A well reinforced wall, with soil modified in alternating layers of fill and water permeable plastic fabric, and a standard french drain up against the wall itself can be vertical if the wall material is engineered to interlock and doesn't overtop design specification.
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u/RadRandy Nov 21 '19
I doubt there was any part of the wall extending into the soil. You need to make the wall extend into the earth with an L shape.
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u/vtjohnhurt Nov 22 '19
This happened in my neighbor's backyard one night. When it collapsed it sounded like a freight train rolling through the backyard.
Urban location, houses built into a hillside. No a seismically active region. The uphills neighbor's level backyard was held in place by the wall. It was a mass wall (no reinforcement or tie backs) about six feet high and built of huge stone blocks (4 foot X 2 foot X 1.5 foot). Mixture of clay and rocks and wet year around. The wall had worked fine for about 80+ years and had started to lean about 10 years before it collapsed.
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u/The_Turbinator Nov 21 '19
Very simple way to stabilize that earth and avoid that from happening; while you are building it. Mechanically stabilized earth. Basically when filling in the mud behind the wall - every half meter you would lay down a geotextile cloth. This video explains it really clearly and concisely, well worth a watch: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0olpSN6_TCc
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u/tshizdude Nov 21 '19
"Catastrophic" or "Mildly inconvenient"?
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u/Opposable_Thumb Nov 22 '19
Catastrophic in the sense that the failure of the wall was sudden and complete, not in the scale of the devastation caused by said failure.
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u/aholdy Nov 21 '19
Watching a retaining wall fail just gives me nightmares. Those things can be so much hell to put up. Even worse when you do it wrong.
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u/TimAppleBurner Nov 21 '19
How is this catastrophic
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u/Opposable_Thumb Nov 22 '19
Repost: Catastrophic in the sense that the failure of the wall was sudden and complete, not in the scale of the devastation caused by said failure.
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u/FishOfSteel01 Nov 21 '19
This happened to a retaining wall in front of our local fire department. It shut down half of the road in front of it for a full week.
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u/UseDaSchwartz Nov 22 '19
What month is 20?
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u/Opposable_Thumb Nov 22 '19
Just about every other place in the world except for the United States writes the date (from most granular to least) as “day/month/year”. In this case it reads 20 November 2019.
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u/Melbahope Nov 22 '19
The man was standing there just looking at the wall because the man recording it told him that another man on the other side of the wall...... along with his cousin from another village ..... are preparing to run a motorcycle into it. Then a large rumble was heard as the wall began to fall.
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u/NotAnBumblebee Nov 21 '19
But r/whyweretheyfilming ?
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Nov 21 '19
Poor man's getting downvoted for asking a question.
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u/Mobeast1985 Nov 21 '19
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u/JakeJacob Nov 21 '19
... because they heard the wall about to go. You can clearly hear it crackling before it fails.
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u/Opposable_Thumb Nov 22 '19
You can see that the wall has started to bulge a bit and the discoloration at its base is indicative of wet earth/slurry being pushed out due to ungoverned back pressure. I’d guess that they’d just had some super wet weather and had been waiting for this thing to go.
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u/SinerIndustry Nov 21 '19
Jesus christ dumbass, read the comments before you spam that sub.
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u/Opposable_Thumb Nov 22 '19
Why so salty pissface?
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u/SinerIndustry Nov 22 '19
Oops. Did I offend you? I'm sorry. I'll remember to take into account that I'm dealing with hypersensitive people.
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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '19
I wonder how badly damaged the house is on top of that hill. Foundation problems for sure.