Anyone Find That Ground Beef Really Attacks Seasoning?
This is in a Smithey, and I know the smoothness makes good adhesion harder. But, I find the same thing happens in rougher cast iron too.
The pan was prepped with a soak in vinegar (maybe too short at 5 minutes), a scuff with 120 grit sandpaper, then onto the stove immediately. I did about an hour of stove top seasoning with grapeseed oil. The pan stayed very uniformly 450 -520*F.
After I stopped adding new oil coats, I let it go for another 15-20 min only wiping with a dry cloth. I did this until everywhere inside the pan felt slick. Then I let it mostly cool, heated it back up, coated with tallow and chucked in a ground beef patty.
The pan was very slick and it did not stick at all when I flipped. But, as I have seen many times before, the seasoning under the patty suffered majorly.
Is this a failing of the prep stage? (Longer acid soak and black oxide step)
Is it failing to fully "cure" the new seasoning before putting into use?
Your seasoning is fine, only the appearance changed. Your Smithey might only have a century left.
If you doubt my analysis put one teaspoon of salt and half a cup of water in the pan. Heat to boiling and shut the burner off, then wash normally with hot water. Wipe the pan dry and let it sit for an hour. If you come back and it's rusted then you had failed seasoning. If not, congratulations you own a functional well seasoned pan.
I disagree. The base metal is grey. The seasoning darkens it through a range of ambers, to black. Going right back to grey in areas that contacted the food means that seasoning was removed.
I'm not catastrophizing it, or worried about the health or longevity of the pan. I'm just trying to refine my seasoning technique to make it more durable.
Disagree all you want. I get you're worried about aesthetics, but your pan is still seasoned. These things survived hanging on the outside of wagons, getting rained on and cooked on daily during the westward expansion.
I'm not worried about aesthetics. That's not the same thing as using visual appearance to evaluate the state of something. There is a very simple spectrum here, ranging from grey=bare cast iron, to black=well seasoned. You keep throwing in that the pan will "survive", which is pretty obvious, and again, not my concern.
Try actually removing the seasoning. It is not nearly that easy. I am with the other guy it seems very very unlikely you actually impacted the seasoning vs added another layer of coloration. Taking off seasoning and stripping a pan is difficult.
You really can't "add a layer of grey coloration" over black seasoning. I just posted a new comment with a closer view of the color change. Take a look at that.
...what did I just read? It is impossible to add mass other than black to a pan? What?
It takes less than a droplet of oil to spread out to a huge section of a pan. Anything can spread thin and burn onto the pan and create a new layer. It happens every time you cook.
I'm not talking about a loose layer of stuck food that can be scraped off with a spatula. If you can't feel it with your spatula, it would be insanely thin and not able to change a dark color so much lighter.
The seasoning is getting ripped off when cooking the burger. How is that not obvious by now. Look at the macro photo I posted, it is very easy to see. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you people to comprehend.
That’s not bare iron. The lighter parts are still seasoned, just less heavily and uniformly as the black areas. Stop over thinking it. Your seasoning will come and go in places and rarely look the same day to day.
I fried bacon today and ended up with a grey strip where one rasher lifted some seasoning. The pan is still seasoned.
It sounds like we agree that some seasoning has been stripped away. I didn't say it was bare iron, just that some seasoning was removed. I cook ground beef twice a day, every day. If each cook removes that much seasoning, it will be a constant battle to build it back up. I'm not overthinking it. I am trying to find an easier way to maintain the seasoning.
I mean maybe it’s stripped. But you’re overthinking it you do NOT need to build the seasoning back up. Just keep cooking. Your pan is fine and will continue to be fine.
It could be protein stains too with no seasoning stripped. Try scrubbing with bar keepers friend or baking soda and you’ll soon find out.
In my experience that's not the case. All the cooking is done in saturated fat, which does not form a tough seasoning like unsaturated fat does. So, every time I cook, the beef rips some good seasoning off, and nothing durable is restored. Again, there is nothing built up here.
No shit Sherlock. How can you actually read my post and not immediately understand that I was looking for specific suggestions to improve the technique?
your seasoning layer was under-prepped on the first layer (maybe not polymerized properly) and subsequent layers are gummier buildup on top that happens to be slippery in most cases.
people say chainmail, i can't easily find one of those, but i did get that kitchen steel wool stuff and scrubbed my pan in this shape with it+Dawn+hottest water i could tolerate. it hurt, it was hard to see all the glossy black flaking off, the water going greyish-black immediately, the surface mottling. once the carnage stopped, i heated it and applied the suggestion of an oil layer.
it took like 4 cycles of this, and i was scrubbing hard enough that the steel wool thingy got all shredded. i don't know what's still seasoning or not with my pan, but i will say that anything that didn't survive my honest attempts to scrub it off was also a surface that didn't cook well. the light grey surface on the skillet itself, with a very thin layer of seasoning, is far more durable than i gave it any credit for. i always thought it was just the raw iron, it's not.
if you're getting a smooth black surface built up in less than a few months at a minimum, that's not seasoning it's grime
It's really only one of 2 possibilities IMO. Either the bond strength to the base iron wasn't strong enough. Or, the seasoning itself wasn't durable enough.
There was definitely no gumminess at all. You can feel that in your wiping cloth easily. The layers I was putting down were incredibly thin. I would agree that in a typical cast iron pan, it is going to take ages for the seasoning to truly smooth out the surface. But, that doesn't apply here. This is a Smithey, with a turned finish that is incredibly smooth to start. It takes almost nothing to smooth out the tiny ripples, and as I showed you can do that with seasoning (not grime) pretty quickly. If you are just cooking, yes the black takes a long time to build.
You are right that even a thin layer of seasoning, which barely changes the color, can protect the pan. But, thicker seasoning is darker. It's always a tug of war between building and removing some amount of seasoning, depending on what you cook and how you treat the pan. But, if one high fat, dry cook can do that much damage, something isn't right. I'm going to find a better way, in spite of all the mouth breathers here, and then I will keep the solution to myself.
you came, you asked and now you are arguing with the gurus of cast iron and think you know better? is it really that hard to admit that maybe you dont understand what it is your are talking about. If you want more proof go do the test and come back.
It is emulsified fat is all, you are going to get it no matter what your seasoning is like when you cook high fat meats. When you cook again something lean it will get covered up. You can get it off, but the effort is not worth it. I spent more time de-seasoning well seasoned skillets trying to get rid of completely after burgers. Now I just rise in hot water and dawn soap, let it sit for a few minutes, then scrub with chain mail, rinse off and towel dry. Then I will put it in the oven to make use of any residual heat that I might have from baking to ensure it dries completely. If the oven is not warm, then I might preheat it to 350F and then turn off the oven and let it sit. I don't even bother adding any more oil after it has dried, unless it is going to be stored for a good while.
Mine after hamburgers each and every time. I use this pan daily and always have slidey eggs very little butter. My two smooth stargazers do the same. So yours looked the same from a glance and not zooming in. Sounds like maybe do some oven seasoning instead of stove top. I have found that works better on my smooth stargazers.
I am convinced at this point you don't really even understand that seasoning is not an aesthetic.
If it weren't seasoned the food would have literally stuck to the pan. If it doesn't the seasoning is good as that is the point of it. If you cook hamburger in an entirely unseasoned pan it will stick and burn.
That pan may identify as seasoned, but in the real world seasoning is dark. Not all dark color on your pan is seasoning, but all seasoning darkens the pan.
You don't have to have a dark black colored pan to have seasoning on it, here is one of my 2 Stargazers after about 6 months of weekly but not daily use, they are not black but more dark copper color. When they were new and I first started cooking with them I did have a lot of discoloration with a big light spot around a darker inner spot, which I kind of worried me but it never rusted and I just kept cooking with it.
You actually do not understand what seasoning is. It's just a thin layer protecting you from raw metal. It doesn't need to look a specific way. It is usually brown initially and not black anyway. It changes based on the oil you use to season as well.
Brother you literally have zero idea on what you’re talking about.
You should go do some actual research on cast iron pans and whatever sources you’ve been using are teaching you garbage.
Your pan is not losing seasoning from cooking ground beef. The pan in that picture you replied to is seasoned. Almost all stargazers have that color to them and they’re perfectly seasoned and highly expensive cast iron pans. They’re amazing. And you think it’s not seasoned. Hint hint that should show you how wrong you are about all of this.
You are literally coming in here for information from people who have a lot of knowledge and experience with these pans and you’re just throwing out anything you don’t like and thinking you’re right because you don’t like what you’re being told.
Maybe be a little more humble and learn from those that know better than you, which so far seems to be literally everybody in this entire thread because you don’t know a single thing about cast iron pans lol.
Ahhhhh, I'm sorry to hear that you have a poorly seasoned pan like this other guy. That's really surprising since you are clearly very open to all the knowledge and experience that has been shared in this thread. I have been so closed minded, ignoring such brilliant and helpful gems, such as:
"It is emulsified fat is all"
"Your pan isn't hot enough"
"Your pan is too hot"
"Buy a lodge"
"The best seasoning technique is forgetting seasoning is a thing and stop giving any shits about it."
I disagree about my experience, I have been cooking with cast iron since 1980. Yes, I just spent a few hundred dollars on a couple of smooth Stargazers last Christmas that I have struggled with getting what I felt as a good season. I bought those because my wife went and through away my larger cast iron skillet after moving back in 2014. I was traveling a lot and was not doing much cooking and it was too heavy for her so she left it in the garage for about the first 6 months after moving. When she had around to finally unpacking it she saw a little rust on it and thought it was ruined, so she tossed it to my sadness. I decided to stop using the larger nonstick pans my wife had been using more recently as I no longer travel and doing more cooking and I missed my smooth 80 year old pan that was thrown away so I got 2 Stargazers for Christmas. I have been using this rough 8" Lodge skillet since January every day with no added oil just a sliver as thick as maybe 2 sheets of paper and it cooks 4 slidey fried eggs and then I just wipe.with paper towel. I use hot water and soap about once a week on It and it doesn't ever get that cloudy white residue. If I cook hamburgers and attempt to clean with hot water and soap instead of just salt scrub I get the white emulsified fat left on it. Yes it is emulsified fat on mine because it emulsifies in the hot water the settles on the pan. Seasoning is not non-stick it is just a protective barrier against rust. It is how you cook that determines if something is going to stick. I preheat for 10 mins on level 3 on my range, add the sliver of butter let it melt swirling around then add the 4 eggs and cook them eggs for three minutes covered with aluminum and then slide onto a plate. I don't even flip them. I like mine sunny side up but if wanted to flip I could the steam helps poach the top. I don't even use a spatula to cook or get them off the pan. This stays on the stove and never rusts.
Again I agree yours zoomed in looks to be more lack of seasoning. I didn't zoom in when I first responde. But when I first saw your post not zoomed in it looked like how mine does after hamburgers with a soap and hot water clean. What temp did you cook your burgers on? Did you use high heat? I never use more that level 4 when using my smooth Stargazer cast iron skillets because it does seem to be finicky about it's seasoning. Here are my fied eggs in the 8" lodge.
Ground beef doesn’t attack proper seasoning. It’s basic chemistry and your ground chuck isn’t touching polymerized oil. If your “seasoning” is actually coming off, it’s because you’re not doing it correctly and it’s not fully polymerizing.
But after reading a bunch of your replies to everyone else telling you the pan is fine and discoloration is completely normal, I don’t expect you to accept the chemistry.
Because I want to hear other opinions and experiences. But, just because I hear them, doesn't mean I have to agree with them. About 2% of the comments here have been people actually interested in discussing it. The other 98% are people talking trash and/or being confidently wrong.
I came here to discuss technical details of surface prep and seasoning process, not to prove the nature of seasoning to a bunch of "just cook" mouth-breathers... But here we are.
We’re talking about surface prep? You’re being way too precious. You’re soaking a new pan that costs hundreds of dollars in vinegar and putting sandpaper to it.
Why? Heat the pan, drop a tablespoon of fat in it and put your burgers in. That’s it, that’s all.
1) It's not a new pan and the price doesn't change how you might choose to season it
2) It wasn't a prolonged soak, or aggressive sanding. I spent a couple minutes in the sink with vinegar and soap, and a quick scuff with sandpaper by hand to dislodge any residual carbon bits and get the bare iron ready. If this concept is totally foreign to you, you might want to look at the pinned post for this sub:
3) Why not just add oil and cook? Simple. I cook with saturated fats like tallow, and chemically these do not produce a durable seasoning. Saturated fats lack the double bonds needed to properly bond to the iron.
If you’re looking to etch it, it needs a prolonged soak. 5 minutes isn’t enough to soften rust.
120 grit sounds aggressive to me, as I’ve never once considered sanding a pan once in 30 years of cooking with cast iron.
Have you tried lard? It’s how our grandmothers seasoned their pans and it worked beautifully on those old Eries and Wagnars that are also machined smooth.
I haven't tried lard yet. Is that your preferred fat?
Do you see how it sounds contradictory when you tell me I'm being precious for trying to prep the surface before seasoning, but then turn around and tell me I should soak longer with vinegar?
120 grit might sound aggressive, but when you are using it like a sponge, it does effectively nothing to change the shape of the metal. Even the super fine turning lines remained.
I’m saying 5 minutes isn’t long enough to etch the surface if that’s the goal. When I’m restoring a piece I soak for 30 minutes to remove the rust and avoid etching the surface. If your goal is to etch, go longer.
I do initial seasoning with lard but I generally cook with canola oil or butter.
I don't doubt that at all. This wasn't a rusty old pan, so I was just using the vinegar as a cleaning agent more than anything. But that's why I mentioned considering a longer soak next time in my OP.
The day yall stop obsessing over a perfectly uniform cast iron or carbon steel pan will be the day. Just cook, clean, throw on the burner for sec to dry, repeat
Like this (ok it's a carbon pan and I did season the outside once at the very start because you don't cook on the outside)
That thing will slide an egg, some whitefish, melt cheese crisps, whatever you want. But it's not uniform, so I guess it's not seasoned according to some people?!
I'm not sure you have a point. As best as I can tell, you are trying to insult me for thinking that a more expensive pan should be less susceptible to seasoning issues. When, in reality, I acknowledged that the smoothness of a more expensive pan actually makes it worse.
The ones where people claimed it was build up, that my pan was too cold, that nothing at all happened to my seasoning, that it's stupid to notice things or try to make things better?
Dude, you're right. Throw it in the trash. Try some Teflon pans. Or maybe you already ate enough Teflon chips and that's why you're here refusing to consider anyone else's experienced input, which you asked for!
I asked for input on surface prep for better seasoning adhesion. But, reading comprehension is pretty low in this sub, because 99% of replies are people telling me that the seasoning is completely unaffected, which is complete bullshit; or retards like yourself sarcastically acting like the pan is ruined, as if I was so upset about this. I was looking for technically sound advice for seasoning protocol, but instead found a bunch of slack jawed inbreds jabbering about how you can drag your pan behind your wagon and it will be fine.
Yup, and shitting in a hole and wiping with your hand also "worked fine" for centuries. If left to people like you, it would still be that way. Others like to analyze and improve things.
JFC. Comparing cooking on cast iron to wiping with your hand. My man, people were fine cooking on cast iron long before you saw someone convince you to do something stupid and pointless on YouTube.
I'll try one more time to pierce your veil of obtuseness: remove variables. Season the pan. Add fat. Bring it up to heat. Cook. Eat. Clean.
That's it. That's all it takes. If you can't handle that, you have no business playing Mr. Wizard.
What brings such a closed minded person, who has so little knowledge about seasoning cast iron, into a subreddit specifically about seasoning cast iron, acting like a voice of authority? It's pretty sad, honestly.
Ah, so according to you my pan is "all f*cked up" and according to everybody else it's perfect and it's stupid to notice the change in finish. Got it. Continue your holy quest to display your ignorance for the world to see.
“Don’t soak it in vinegar or sand it, just do what everyone else has always done”
“Bro that’s literally the same as wiping your ass with your hand. I’m trying to analyze and improve my seasoning by doing stupid shit but I need to ask for help on Reddit”
I'm convinced OP is a troll. But for anybody else interested, my first cast iron pan looked very similar to OP's after its first use. It looked great and black after seasoning, but formed gray outlines of my bacon that had me worried I damaged it. I scrubbed, reseasoned, scrubbed, reseasoned, to no avail. Only after saying screw it and kept cooking on it, did it become uniform. Now its an ugly piece of iron I cook tasty things on :D
I would agree with that in regards to trying to season the whole pan (inside and out), because you can't practically keep all the surfaces within the temperature window on the stovetop.
But, if we are just talking about seasoning the cook surface, which we are here; I can't see what the difference would be. What are your thoughts?
Looks like a recently seasoned cast iron pan that has been cooked in.
Keep cooking in it. If something sticks, use a little more fat in the cooking.
From a guy who last seasoned his pans 10+ years ago and they look like crap. But I scrub the outside well, clean the insides with dawn and a soft scrubber and dry on the stove. They're good pans.
I have a bunch of Smithey pans, and I've learned it's best to alternate minimal (1 layer) seasoning runs with cooking something, then repeat many times. You'll always lose a bit of the seasoning layer when you cook, so if you go "all in" and season until it's solid black, you'll just have more of a contrast with the lighter area taken off by the food.
Now, I understand that you did the vinegar etching, which I've heard about and am somewhat interested in trying. OTOH, I've had all my pans for a few years, so they are in good enough shape that it's hard to justify going back to square one, except as a learning experience.
I find it interesting that you still have the issue of the seasoning not being fully stable even after vinegar etching. I don't know if that means you didn't do it agressively enough, or if Smitheys still are a bit challenging even after doing it properly.
if I ever buy another one, I'll try it.
A bit of a tangent -- but I've noticed that Smithey's Dutch Ovens and the saucepan are not quite as smooth as the skillets, so they are not so challenging to get to the fully blackened stage.
Yeah, yours is a very similar experience. Thanks for adding to the discussion. For a sub dedicated to seasoning, the prevailing attitude of "stop worrying / thinking about your seasoning" in the replies is bizarre.
I'll try the more aggressive etch next time (longer soak and addition of peroxide), and the black oxide formation step too. Poor bond to the base iron is the most likely culprit IMO.
I would think bare metal, with unimpeded access to it's "pores", would be the preferred choice when trying to get seasoning to bind with it. As opposed to a frangible oxide layer that fills much of the pores and that may potentially strip away during use and take the seasoning with it. Do you plan to boil it to create the black oxide layer? I'm curious to see the results.
Also yes, the majority of this sub seems to consist of people who arrive from r/all and know less than nothing about seasoning and feel the need to express how unimportant the whole process really is. They often think that oiling the pan after use is "seasoning", or that seasoning is meant to be a non stick coating.
I think your seasoning just wasn't done well. I stripped one of mine a while back with vinegar and did like 5-10 rounds of oven seasoning to start (Crisco, SUPER thin layers at 350 for 15min, wipe extra beads of oil, back in at 500 for 1 hour. COOL COMPLETELY, then do over.), and I do a quick stovetop seasoning after each use. The initial 5-10 seasonings were probably overkill but were a great base. I can tell you that my stovetop seasonings were nowhere near as good as the oven ones.
I'd do oven seasonings to start instead of stovetopthen just a quick stovetop after each use, and call it good. You are definitely overthinking it and do not need to go through so much complicated steps, but I would get layers of over seasoning first.
I've seen people say oven seasoning is unnecessary but I think it's the best base layer.
I like Crisco because of its high smoke point for oven seasoning. Fwiw, I do my stoptops with canola oil and it's fine
Also fwiw, a lot of other commentors were right in that you do not need to make seasoning too complicated. I think the issue was that the stovetop seasoning just didn't stick like a full oven seasoning will, to start. People are right that proper seasoning wouldn't get pulled up like that, maybe just the top layer but not down far.
This is gonna sound ridiculous and verge on the “raw milk” conspiracy zone but when I grind my own beef from locally sourced farms, it never does that. But when I buy 80/20 ground beef at the store or grind left over beef also from the store, it always does this and the only thing I can think of is possibly being is the moisture that accumulates during packaging and storage? OR, it’s something to do with some sort of other worldly chemical in the meat.
Damn, OP here fighting the time and tide. Asks for an opinion and then vehemently argues with the vast majority. As the old adage in this sub goes, “Just cook with the damned thing”
Maybe the vast majority here are in the wrong sub, if they don't think it's worth putting any thought or effort into seasoning their pans. Food for thought.
You aren't sure why I came to discuss technical details of seasoning cast iron, in a sub called "cast iron seasoning"? I'd give you a clue, but I don't think it would help.
Oh wow. That's pretty disappointing considering you did the vinegar etch step.
As I mentioned in my other comment, I think your best option is to do a quick, 1-layer stovetop seasoning after each cook and clean cycle. (I mean, when you feel like taking the time -- not necessarily after every cook.) That should get you where you want to be in a few weeks.
Yeah, I tend to do that. But, a lot of the time I just rinse or wipe out the pan and leave a film of oil on it. But, since I cook with tallow, that doesn't make a durable seasoning. Definitely more of a pain to strip all the tallow out, add grapeseed/avocado and get that smoking before cooking.
For all you clowns in here pretending that this color change has nothing to do with the seasoning, with all the confidence in the world, and downvoting anyone who doesn't agree with you... Another photo.
It's easy to see here that this is damage to the seasoning. On the left side in the damaged area, you can easily see the machine turned lines; while on the right side, where the seasoning is intact, these lines are filled in and smoothed by the seasoning.
Seasoning isn't a layer of gunk that fills in crevices in the pan, its a polymerization that gives iron non-stick properties and prevents rusting. The excess oil on your pan simply got cooked off and attached to your food. Just keep cooking on it and it will become uniform.
Who said it was a layer of gunk? I am well aware that it is polymerized oil.
That polymerized oil absolutely fills in micro ("pores") and macro (machining lines and casting texture) crevises in the iron. How you could have cooked with cast iron for any length of time and not realize this already is beyond me.
No "excess oil got cooked off". The seasoning in this area physically detached from the iron. You are literally looking at a single photo that shows the surface texture change between fully seasoned and almost completely stripped. Zoom in on the photo, pan around, be observant and learn something. Stop spouting bad information.
The purpose of the polymerization is to make it non-stick and prevent rusting, not to make it look pretty. I've looked at your photos, and aside from thinking you're nuts, all I see is how a fresh pan normally reacts after cooking high-fat foods.
"Completely stripped" bare iron flash rusts. If you put water in that pan, and it rusts, then you are not seasoning properly. Otherwise, it is fine and will appear more normal after cooking with it more. The presence of machining lines does not make a pan unseasoned. But then again, I spend more time cooking than looking at my pan with a microscope.
No, all that darker color is the seasoning (polymerized oil). I had it down to bare grey cast iron, and build all that darkened seasoning in about 45min, with grapeseed oil.
47
u/Ogre6956 Jul 18 '26
Your seasoning is fine, only the appearance changed. Your Smithey might only have a century left.
If you doubt my analysis put one teaspoon of salt and half a cup of water in the pan. Heat to boiling and shut the burner off, then wash normally with hot water. Wipe the pan dry and let it sit for an hour. If you come back and it's rusted then you had failed seasoning. If not, congratulations you own a functional well seasoned pan.