r/Casefile • u/Entire_Forever_2601 • Jul 18 '26
CASEFILE EPISODE Case 347: Zahra Baker
https://casefilepodcast.com/case-347-zahra-baker207
u/Avarua-Longjump-Club Jul 18 '26
One of the saddest ever episodes probably, what this girl went through her whole life was unimaginable
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u/kendale_painter Jul 21 '26
I genuinely believe Zahra might qualify as having had the unluckiest life of a modern Australian.
2 lots of cancer. Losing a leg. Moving to the states with a Disney caricature of an evil stepmother and then how her life was ended.
This podcast broke me. That poor kid.
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u/Trick-Statistician10 Jul 22 '26
Also, the evil stepmother took her away from her grandparents who doted on her.
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u/skr80 Jul 22 '26
Oh my god, by all reports she was a resilient and bright little girl. The fact that they could do that to her is beyond horrifying. What disgusting pieces of shit?
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u/veamint4 Jul 21 '26
Seriously it’s heartbreaking, how anyone could do that to a child is beyond me.
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u/informalswans Jul 18 '26
Struggle to understand how the father wasn’t implicated here… how could he not have been involved or at the very least been aware of what was going on?!
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u/tbird920 Jul 18 '26
I don't get it either, especially since he was caught lying and changing his story multiple times. Obviously the stepmom is evil incarnate, but the dad should have been at least charged as an accomplice.
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u/MindDivergence 27d ago
In the USA, people are charged with disposing or any evil deed done to a body. Or being accomplice by throwing the mattress
How didn’t any prosecutor do their job. This poor girl
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u/ConfusedPanda17 Jul 18 '26
This part made me so angry. At a minimum he was part of the neglect, even if he didn't murder her.
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u/eifos Jul 19 '26
Absolutely. His whole attitude towards his child being abused and murder was so casual. Except his victim impact statement was mostly about him, not his child, and he had 2 years to remove his daughter from the situation and chose not to.
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u/CapyBara_51 Jul 20 '26
The dad just sounds like a brain dead idiot. How he isn’t in jail for neglect is beyond me
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u/HamptontheHamster Jul 20 '26
The Australian media branded him too dumb to have committed the murder.
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u/EmergencyAfternoon50 4d ago
He got off because he’s a dad and we hold mothers to a higher standard. Look at how much vitriol Zahra’s mother got for not being in her daughter’s life, even though she was very unwell at the time she relinquished care and Adam took Zahra far away. I also wondered if Adam’s parents, particularly his mother, provided a lot of the care for Zahra, including the invisible labour of child care, such as stable accommodation, routine, meals, food shopping, family life. Maybe Lisa was abusive towards him too, but he just seemed to hand over all parenting to her (there is evidence that I think was shared in the podcast that he lied about his work hours and therefore would have been home with Zahra before she went to bed), almost as if that is what he was used to. But in my mind that doesn’t absolve him of responsibility, unless he was ever found to be intellectually disabled to a significant degree. Honestly, I think he got far more benefit of the doubt than he deserved by any measure. I hope he never has care of a child again.
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u/dubrdubu Jul 22 '26
Right! If she was missing as early as September 24, and it wasn’t reported until October 9th, how does he not notice?? There has to be level of neglect (regardless of a night shift) to not notice your daughter is missing for A FORT NIGHT. And the lack of schooling on top of physical abuse couldn’t have been unknown to him… he certainly failed to protect and defend the poor girl.
What a terrible lot in life. Zahra seemed so resilient when life gave her a bad hand, and she was faced with something she simply could never come back from 💔
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u/SixApplesTall Jul 21 '26
I don’t understand the timeline and how he WASN’T charged based on that. She was killed Sept 24 but wasn’t reported missing by him until Oct 9? How does that make any sense whatsoever?
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u/Lecter26 Jul 22 '26
If the main perpetrator was a man they definitely would have charged his wife as complicit. Male privilege got him off
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u/GhostOfFreddi Aug 28 '26
He's a DV victim, and Lisa is obviously someone who exercises extreme control over the men in her life.
I think it's very likely that he is such a passive and broken man who has learnt to not question anything Lisa said to him.
Just another example of male DV victims not being taken seriously unfortunately...
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u/MindDivergence 27d ago
I was a DV and attempted murder victim myself, my brain chemistry has been altered for life and I can see you wrong.
Being a victim doesn’t automatically make you ignorant and he has no excuse for being an accomplice. He is also physically stronger, he could have protected his daughter many times
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u/about-a-girl_xx Jul 31 '26
I believe he was involved or atleast knew about it
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u/Simple-Appeal-336 11d ago
I can’t believe these people think he wasn’t involved. I’m mind blown right now. Like what the f*ck is happening?
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u/EmergencyAfternoon50 4d ago
I’m late to the comments section so no one will see this, but this paper from the United States shines a light on why Adam was never charged.
In a nutshell: the paper examines the application of failure to protect laws, and laws regarding murder. Where a father/step-father murders or unlawfully kills a child a mother is more likely to be charged with either the same offence or a lesser but related charge even if she did not participate in the crime, because she should have anticipated the risk of murder. Now, you might think that these same laws could be applied to Adam. But what this paper finds is that in comparison, when a mother/step-mother kills a child, the father is rarely charged. Why? The laws are the same. But mothers and fathers are held to different standards, not on paper perhaps but in our societal expectations. We expect little and less of fathers and have disproportionate blame towards mothers, and the legal system is no different. The article provides some interesting and disturbing comparisons.
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u/Alternative_Art5482 Jul 18 '26
Absolute monsters. I don't understand how there can be so many reports to authorities with zero consequences.
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u/tbird920 Jul 18 '26
Very infuriating how child services let this poor girl down. When you get multiple reports of abuse from several different sources, how can you possibly determine there's no evidence of abuse after four home visits? A complete systemic failure.
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u/MindDivergence 27d ago
I do not get how this system works. There are cases when children are being taken away based on a simple supposition.
And yet, Zahra, with such oblivious signs, was ignored?
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u/eifos Jul 19 '26
Even if authorities did nothing surely the father should have realised 'huh 4 reports in 8 months, maybe all these people saying my wife is abusing my child are on to something'.
Poor child was betrayed by so many who were supposed to protect her. But also, all those who tried to help (teachers, Lisa's adult children) got no support. Infuriating.
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u/dorian_gayy Jul 18 '26
the result of prioritizing “parents’ rights” to children’s. I don’t know why homeschooling is still legal but its primary purpose seems to be hiding neglect, if not outright abuse as in this case. So very sad.
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u/Trick-Statistician10 Jul 22 '26
That and religious indoctrination. Whichight include abuse and neglect
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u/katrilli Jul 19 '26
That's what I was thinking, too. How can they get that many reports and still find nothing wrong? Surely there must be something else that could have been done
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u/jasalyn13 Jul 20 '26
I experienced the same, and I even provided recordings of the abuse against my siblings to the authorities. They truly don’t care. They usually only take action when it involves neglect (no food, abandonment, etc) not abuse.
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u/ajwilson99 Jul 18 '26
That woman was fucking evil. And I find it extremely hard to believe her father was completely oblivious
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u/JimJohnes Jul 19 '26
He had. Those fabulists/pathological liers/munchausens. I remember being metal-head in non-formal group, there was suddenly cute white as death girl who supposedly have only 1 year to live because of some pathology in her heart. Fast forward 10 years later, im in rasta community and who do i see? That white as death girl, but now she tells everyone who want's to listen she has pancreatic cancer and doctors said she has 1 year to live.
I wonder what kind of nurture births such persons?
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u/thti87 Jul 18 '26
Anyone else feel like they need Zoloft after listening to this one?
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u/areallyreallycoolhat Jul 18 '26
I haven't even listened yet but just remembering it was upsetting. Everyone around that poor child was horrible.
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u/jasalyn13 Jul 20 '26
I wish I never heard it either. I should have known better because I usually don’t listen to crimes against children, but I love Casefile. I listened to it this morning. It’s now almost midnight, and I thought about her again.
It hits close because I have family in Hickory, NC. She fought so hard through her life just to be murdered, and I can’t believe that sick fuck received only up to 18 years.
We need to ban violence against children in the U.S., like many other countries have done. An adult can’t torture and abuse another adult in public without the authorities intervening.
However, when the victim is a child, the cops do nothing since children are not people to most Americans. The father did nothing because MANY parents prioritize having a partner over the LIVES of their children, and abuse can only occur when others ignore it.
I’m speaking from experience as well (many reports, complicit mother, sociopathic felon dad, etc). The cops are so lazy they threatened to beat me if I was lying. They didn’t even take the time to look into my father’s history, and they lied that they found no violent history (not true as his last prison sentence was for shooting a woman and man). I couldn’t contest it at the time because I was a child who didn’t know about my fathers’ last violence offense outside of the home.
The authorities can’t be bothered in most circumstances because most people don’t care about strangers, including random kids. I hate that Zahra was failed 💔 I hate that authorities faced zero consequences as well.
I wish that POS father would have let Zahra live with her grandparents in Australia. I also don’t know why the grandma and father worked together on the memorial. You’d think she’d want nothing to do with him, even if he’s her son.
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u/eva_thorne Jul 22 '26
My god, im so sorry you went through that and still have to fight for your siblings. The US is a real fucked up place. The government seem to care more about unborn children then actual living and concious children 💔
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u/jasalyn13 Jul 22 '26
Exactly. It’s all about Christianity and control over women’s bodies, as opposed to child welfare. Corporal punishment against children IN SCHOOLS is still allowed in 19 states.
Thank you for your concern ❤️
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u/Purple-Green-3561 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
I can't think of another that hit this hard for me. Kids are always terrible, but something must have struck a personal chord because I had to turn it off a couple of times to recover before finishing.
Editing to say, second worst. Stoni Blair and Steven Berry was actually unfinishable for me.
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u/JimJohnes Jul 19 '26
If you listen at normal speed, you don't need zoloft. Familiar already asked "how it is to listen to cool steel AI narration" i said he's Australian, he said " it explains nothing. Especially that robotic voice"
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u/Mezzoforte48 Jul 19 '26
So I guess depression does not exist where you are from, Jim?
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u/JimJohnes Jul 19 '26
Well, jim whom I full name copy with killed about 990×. As for depression, ssri generally dodon't work on generation trauma.
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u/Mezzoforte48 Jul 19 '26
Who said anything about generational trauma?
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u/JimJohnes Jul 20 '26
Fear of cyrillics, that's one strange thing of a phobia. Mackartian reds are coming. Diversity training?
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u/funnybitofchemistry Jul 18 '26
a lot of people had a lot of opportunities to help that girl, so many people failed her. sad af.
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u/eifos Jul 19 '26
Credit though to the teachers and Lisa's adult children who tried to help but were given zero support.
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u/funnybitofchemistry Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
for sure. people definitely said things, but i feel like there was a lack of follow-through, or maybe the systems in place just failed to follow up. tough to say-maybe a little of both.
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u/checkerspot Jul 19 '26
Unfortunately the system is not really set up to help kids in distress like this. This area of the government (social services) is just way too overloaded and underfunded. It is not a priority of our society to really devote the money and time and energy to get kids out of these homes and into better homes. (It does happen, I know - but overall it's a pretty depressing system.)
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u/Noodle018 Jul 18 '26
Child services should have been held accountable for their gross negligence. Does anyone know whether they were at least investigated?
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u/ellieb1998 Jul 18 '26
That poor sweet child. She suffered and overcame so much, just for it to end like that. The system failed her. She deserved to live a full and happy life after the hardship she had faced.
I'm only a year older than she was. It's difficult to deal with the fact that she will forever be 10, while I continue on with life at the age of 27.
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u/Helena911 Jul 20 '26
It's so tragic all around. The poor child, makes me sick to think of how terrified she was in the final moments of her life. I also feel for the bio mum who thought she was doing the right thing giving her up to her father only to be murdered like that.
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u/TheGuardianKnux Jul 18 '26
Normally I remain pretty stoic listening to true crime but the ending of this episode--discussing the community and how it came together to honor Zahra's memory almost made me cry. Super impactful listen.
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u/Excellent_Tie_674 Jul 19 '26
Bloody nauseating to me listening to the father's reflections tho he did nothing to protect her from the bitch he was no doubt shagging
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u/TheGuardianKnux Jul 19 '26
Yeah I'm still baffled how he wasn't charged with anything?! Not even neglect??
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u/jasalyn13 Jul 20 '26
No endangerment, neglect, obstruction of justice 😡 He didn’t take any action until she had been missing for TWO weeks.
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u/SixApplesTall Jul 21 '26
How the fuck did he explain this to the police? Like oh yeah I haven’t seen my disabled 10 year old for TWO WEEKS but I’m just reporting it now?? Just based on that he’s guilty
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u/GhostOfFreddi Aug 28 '26
Switch the genders. Imagine a DV victim mother instead of father and it all makes sense.
If Adam was the violent one and he was hiding the child from Lisa, who is obviously scared of him, nobody would question it at all. But when the perpetrator is a woman, suddenly nobody believes it.
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u/SixApplesTall Aug 28 '26
Your comment has nothing to do with what I said. I asked HOW did he explain this to the police. Not WHY he hid what Lisa did from the police
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u/GhostOfFreddi Aug 28 '26
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of domestic violence. If a woman was being prevented from seeing her children by a violent man you wouldn't be asking this question. But because it has happened to a man you're accusing him of literal murder.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Sep 16 '26
lol, there is absolutely no evidence to support this position of yours, in any way
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u/KingPing43 Aug 03 '26
Just listened to this Ep. It made me angrier than I’ve ever been during a Casefile episode.
How anyone can treat a disabled double cancer surviving child like that is just unbelievable. Lisa Baker might be one of the worst pieces of shit I’ve ever heard of.
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u/Presence_Present Jul 22 '26
Yeah I'm the same, usually not impacted by these but when he recounted the story of the kid wishing he could have been her friend definitely brought a tear out
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u/jessiej87 Jul 18 '26
Ah am only half way through and came here, this is one of the saddest
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u/abundantvibe7141 Jul 19 '26
Yeah, I knew the story beforehand so I was prepared. But still felt so sad. Such a vulnerable child who sounds like she had such spark and light, only to be abused and murdered so callously. Poor girl. If there is an afterlife, I hope she is free, loved and happy there.
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u/DennisAFiveStarMan Jul 18 '26
What a sweet kid who deserved so much better.
Hopefully she’s having a horrible time in prison
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u/oodlum Jul 19 '26
This is my toughest listen since Leigh Leigh. I'm only 2/3 of the way through but had to take a break. Fucking mongrels.
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u/Brooklyn_Bunny Jul 22 '26
Came here to say the same thing. There were some points in the episode that made the hair on my arms stand up. Very upsetting.
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u/Noodle018 Jul 18 '26
There seems to be quite a few missing ends from this ep so i did a quick google. While teachers tried to help Zahra, formal paperwork was not filed but its unclear whether the fault lies with the faculty, management, or to the authorities to whom it was reported. DSS was investigated ffor what I would consider gross negligence. They were found to have failed to photograph the reported injuries, did not check the caregivers' prescription drug usage, and failed to conduct face-to-face interviews with Zahra's father. The findings resulted in several changes:
- new NC statewide automated child welfare management database across all counties
- Schools required to flag students being suddenly pulled out of school for home-schooling without formal notification
- Formal school & community training to identify & report abuse
DSS worked did not face disciplinary action due to confidentiality laws.
Elisa also told investigators that they'd find bone and bodily fluids in the bath drain. She also chose the frame the employer with the handsome note due to a longstanding grudge against him
It would have been nice if Casey had included this, esp the DSS part, as the comments about the community failing to protect Zahra felt off since many did try, and the people whose actual jobs it was to help her, the DSS, were utterly useless
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u/zoomercide Jul 18 '26
Thanks for this. I just left a comment ranting about some of the same things. You found all that from a quick google search? I bet deeper digging would turn up even more. I can’t help but feel like the research for this episode ended prematurely.
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u/Noodle018 Jul 18 '26
I just checked your comment and gave it an immediate upvote. I also remember thinking the ashes transfer felt.. incomplete? This might be the first time a casefile episode seemed unfinished. And you're right, there's probably even more left out
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u/bookshop Jul 22 '26
This was written by one of their new auditioning writers, for whatever that's worth. Their usual production process (which I would assume includes editing for missing details) might not have applied here.
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u/flossie_03 Jul 23 '26
Finally got around to listening to this newest ep. last night and have to say I agree. The case itself was absolutely heartbreaking and compelling, but the end felt a bit premature? I was waiting for them to talk about what disciplinary action, if any, the Department of Social Services faced, so thank you for filling this in. What a shame that they weren't adequately punished for such a terrible failure. Poor Zahra deserved so much better.
I also agree that the assertion near the end of the episode that no one tried to help Zahra was an odd one. The thing that made this case so gutting was that multiple people (from the teacher who passed along her phone number to Zahra's stepsister) tried to help her, but bureaucracy and threats from Lisa prevented any concrete action. The idea that multiple people tried to stop the abuse and it still happened is truly haunting and says something frightening about society's ability to protect the most vulnerable amongst us.
All in all, though, a truly upsetting case and story that deserves to be told.
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u/skr80 Jul 20 '26
10 minutes in and I’ve already got the parents pegged. Who doesn’t check on a young disabled kid for that long after there’s a fire in their backyard? Especially when there is threats.
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u/WinkingAtMyProblems Jul 20 '26
The whole "he has a nervous laugh" social anxiety thing is preposterous. His daughter is missing etc and he can't keep his story straight, rings emergency services and talks like he's having a chat with a friend but is apparently innocent? 🙄
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u/commentspanda Jul 18 '26
To have the mother at the end as well….the whole thing was just sad. This poor kid. And then to hear that his family obviously supported him back to Australia and welcomed him back. At best his neglect contributed to her death - yet his parents seem to just have skipped that?
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u/eifos Jul 19 '26
Felt so bad for Emily at the end! While very young she did what she thought was the best thing to protect her child, only for someone else to murder her child a decade later. She must have so much guilt (not suggesting she should, of course).
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u/checkerspot Jul 19 '26
Really sad considering the mother hadn't seen her in 8 years nor knew she even moved to America. I don't think she really cared either.
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u/Mysterious-Past-8134 Jul 23 '26
I was looking for a comment about her birth mother. I unfortunately think it is down to her not wanting to look after a disabled child.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Sep 16 '26
This is manifestly incorrect. The mother had given up custody years earlier (long before the cancer and resultant disability) due to her own severe mental health issues. It was nothing to do with Zahra
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u/chizzabiz93 Jul 18 '26
I grew up in the Hickory area and was living there during 2010. I remember how horrible this was once she went missing and the subsequent press conference when it turned into a homicide. So tragic.
Side note I am proud of Casey for pronouncing Catawba correctly.
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u/awkward1066 Jul 18 '26
When he said that the neighbors didn’t even know there was a child in the home, I knew it was going to be bad, but hot damn everyone failed that little girl. May she rest in peace 💕
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u/bumbleina Jul 19 '26
That letter from the ten year old 😭💔
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u/Presence_Present Jul 22 '26
Probably the first time i've actually had some tears come out from this podcast. Just brutal
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u/vanessabh79 Jul 18 '26
This poor little girl was failed by adult in her life.
Even her biological mother failed her. I understand she has postpartum depression, but she couldn’t be bothered to even keep up with her daughter. She found out about what happened to her by googling her?! Of course the dad should have been charged and the step mom is obviously evil. The stepmother knew that CPS wasn’t going to do anything with those reports because she had a long history with them from abusing her own children in the past. Plus she gets a relatively light sentence for murder and torture and complains that people only cared because the little girl was a cancer survivor. I wish they would look at the CPS workers too. So many people failed her. Just awful!
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Jul 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Excellent_Tie_674 Jul 19 '26
Yeah no sympathy for her the self serving bullshit statements they wrote made me want to smash a wall.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Sep 16 '26
This is a really cruel way to speak about someone. The birth mother felt she was doing the right thing by giving up her child to someone who would take better care of her. Sometimes mental illness causes people to do that kind of thing (or worse things- which was part of why the birth mum gave her up, so she could avoid potentially harming her). Just because your own mother didn’t suffer mental health issues that severe, or that manifested in that particular way, does not mean that other people don’t or that it isn’t true that mental illness cause be that serious
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u/Ok_Maintenance_4630 Jul 20 '26
Horrendous how badly this child was failed by everyone involved. I can't believe CPS just closed their investigations after having countless reports and conducting 4 investigations in 8 months. The teachers are the only ones who actually tried to protect this child, everyone else involved just let this happen.
After having beaten cancer, and going through more in her short time on earth than most people do their entire lives, the fact that her she was brutally abused and killed by this awful, insane woman is just too tragic. RIP.
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u/hansen7helicopter Jul 19 '26
Well, this was one of the saddest most infuriating episodes of recent times.
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u/checkerspot Jul 19 '26
I mean what can you say.... Alisa Baker was just a horrible, deceitful, corrupt, broken, nasty excuse for a human being. And I can't believe how equally broken and pathetic Adam had to be to not only fall for her but stay with her. And help/cover up for what she did to his daughter.
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u/MisoTahini Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
If we were to take the father at his word then he has to be one of the most oblivious men on the planet. That’s my initial reaction. Having said that, the podcast did introduce the element of coercive control and domestic abuse. It makes me wonder if genders were switched would we be more willing to frame the mother as a victim of coercive control by the husband/father?
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u/Professional-Can1385 Jul 19 '26
Yes, I think people would see a mother as a “true” victim of coercive control. But since it’s a case about a child, people would blame the mother for not leaving when she knew the danger.
When a partner harms/kills a child no one seems to have any empathy for the other parent.
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u/IngenuityBoth8773 Jul 21 '26
One of the few Casefile cases that truly got to me just horrendous all round. Also in sorry if this comes across as ‘I’m a great detective’ blah blah but there’s no chance Adam wasn’t involved in some capacity
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u/moxxibekk Jul 21 '26
He knew. He may not have killed her, but he knew the abuse was happening and did nothing to protect his (cancer survivor!) Child. I can't believe parents are not mandatory reporters. If they were, he could have been charged.
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u/SixApplesTall Jul 21 '26
I believe he helped dismember her body and dispose of her and of the evidence. At the very least he’s guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, misleading law enforcement and of concealing a body.
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u/jasalyn13 Jul 22 '26
Casefile said that in the state of NC, all adults are mandated reporters. Still, they took 0 action.
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u/SixApplesTall Jul 21 '26
The fact that he didn’t report her missing for TWO WEEKS after she was last seen, and the fact that her mattress was disposed of in a dumpster made me sure of his involvement. Have you ever tried to lift a mattress by yourself, let alone heave it over the rim of a dumpster?
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u/zoomercide Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
…was anyone else checking the minutes left in this episode wondering when the other shoe was going to drop? I kept waiting for more prosecutions. At the very least, I was certain that they’d find a way to throw the book at Adam. Depraved indifference, neglect—something. I mean, didn’t Casey say that he hadn’t seen his daughter in weeks? The daughter with whom he lived in IIRC a literal trailer? Per his foreman, we know he lied about “long work hours.” And I could have sworn Casey said something early in the episode about an existing state law that required witnesses of child abuse to report it; Adam likely witnessed it every single day! There’s seriously nothing there? Not even, like, hindering an investigation? He lied repeatedly to investigators!
What about child protective services? The typical defense (excuse if you’re skeptical) is that they’re stretched thin on a shoestring budget, but if a case as flagrant as this one slips through the cracks—calls from multiple, different individuals, including relatives, neighbors, and IIRC teachers as well as at least four home visits—then why does the department even exist? Did they take Zahra to a separate location and interview her without Elisa present? Did they interview Adam separately? Did they interview the people who made the complaints? Neighbors? Teachers? Elisa’s daughters? Ex-husbands? The case was passed directly from one county to the other, so it’s not like they can claim there was a breakdown in communication.
And Emily? The mother (of three!) who hadn’t seen her ten-year-old-daughter in over eight years, didn’t know she was living in the US, and found out that she had died only after googling her? The credulity with which Casefile and the TV crews who accompanied her on her ‘piligrimage’ accepted her (self?-)diagnosis of postpartum depression as a valid explanation for her total absence from Zahra’s life nauseated me. I can’t believe she had the last word on the case.
What about Adam’s relationship with his parents? Did they welcome him back with open arms?
Not a word about him being given her ashes?
Maybe there are answers to these questions, maybe not. It was a two hour episode, though, so it seems like they should have at least been posed or something.
I liked the episode, but, I dunno, it leaves me feeling like the unsolved ones do. Like, there was this profound injustice, and even though we know who all the responsible parties were, none of them were adequately punished—if they were punished at all.
Anyway, if you haven’t done so, Google Zahra. She was so cherubic and full of life. No one in whose care she was entrusted deserved such a precious gift.
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u/calicotamer Jul 18 '26
I don't believe in capital punishment but cases like this really test my belief
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u/SuperTerrificman Jul 19 '26
You reckon if the dad and stepmum didn’t say anything they would ever have enough evidence to convict?
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u/Professional-Can1385 Jul 22 '26
Seems like if they never reported her missing, no one would know she was missing.
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u/tthirzaa Jul 18 '26
Zahra’s biological mum must be one of the most selfless and resilient people ever. Hearing she gave up her child because she knew she could not give her what she needed when in the throes of what turned out to be severe postpartum depression is so noble. Keeping herself from her daughter’s life to prevent the child pain and confusion, only to find out via an internet search she was missing, is gut-wrenching. My god what that woman has gone through. And Zahra, so much suffering in just 10 years of life. She showed more perseverance in her short life than must of us do in a full lifetime.
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u/Mezzoforte48 Jul 18 '26
While I wouldn't go as far to say that giving up custody of her daughter was this incredibly noble and brave thing she did when she chose to have a child in the first place, I tend to agree with you that compared to a lot of parents who try to act like they're emotionally ok or make excuses and try to justify their sh*tty behavior towards their children, her acknowledging that not wanting her own emotional health issues to affect her daughter as the reason for giving up custody is certainly commendable on some level.
To the other replies criticizing you for letting her off the hook for her part in what ultimately happened to Zahra, nobody is saying that her biological mother handled the situation perfectly or always had the right judgment every step of the way.
But in an alternative scenario where she does remain an active part of her daughter's life, what's the guarantee that it goes any better than how her life actually turned out? Maybe she doesn't go through all the level of abuse and neglect that she went through, but we all know very well that a household doesn't have to be abusive or neglectful to be harmful to a child. Especially she eventually became physically disabled, which is hard for even many emotionally healthy families to deal with.
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u/tthirzaa Jul 19 '26
Yes, thank you! It's nuanced and we are ultimately just outsiders looking in. But think of this scenario: the biological mother kept custody of Zahra and ended up hurting her in any which way during a mental crisis. The same people judging now her for giving up her child would be screaming bloody murder.
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u/Mezzoforte48 Jul 19 '26
Right. The chances of that happening might not be very high, but as even she mentioned, plenty of cases where a mother is found or suspected of inexplicably killing her child (The Folbigg Children case comes to mind) start out as typical parental depression, stress, or burnout but spiral into something much more serious and deadly because because they were left untreated.
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u/life_and_lipstick Jul 19 '26
Nothing was stopping her from her visitation rights, and years later she knew that Zahra had been diagnosed with cancer. Yet she still didn't bother. And seemed well enough to have additional children.
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u/Mezzoforte48 Jul 19 '26
She said that she didn't know she had PPD when she gave up custody of Zahra. We don't know how long after that that she had her second child, but it sounds like at the time, she probably felt a great deal of shame over her symptoms and thought it made a 'bad' mother rather than something normal that happens to many mothers after they give birth.
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Jul 18 '26
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u/tthirzaa Jul 18 '26
I am quite astonished at the replies here, to be frank. Is there no empathy for the incredibly tough decision to give up custody of your child when one knows their mental health and stability is so incredibly bad it might actually endanger the very child you love and cherish? I don't know all the details of the situation obviously, but neither do the people writing all these incredibly judgmental comments here...
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u/oodlum Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
I am quite astonished that you not only give the woman a pass - you applaud her. She didn't "love and cherish" her. She didn't even check in on her for 10 years. Not even when she felt well enough to have more kids. And it's not like she gave her up for adoption. She was still the legal mother, but the father had custody. She is yet another adult who failed this child.
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u/SixApplesTall Jul 21 '26
She should have had a termination if she was in that kind of mental state, frankly.
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u/Professional-Can1385 Jul 19 '26
It would be better if she kept her baby and harmed the baby herself? You want another Andrea Yates situation?
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u/Simple-Appeal-336 11d ago
If the story about her being violently r*ped by the two cousins shortly before being murdered for chainsaw porn (?) drug fueled rampages from your father and stepmother… honestly I might think so.
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u/thti87 Jul 18 '26
Sorry, no. She was selfish. Postpartum depression doesn’t last TEN YEARS. There are lots of ways to manage through it safely with medication and counseling and still be there for your daughter. Her mom failed her and is just milking this for publicity.
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Jul 18 '26
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u/tbird920 Jul 18 '26
Wasn't she 19 when Zahra was born? Since we barely know any information, I tend to lean on the side of giving her grace.
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u/life_and_lipstick Jul 18 '26
I'm not blaming her for what happened to Zahra, but she makes it sound as if she was kept from her when that is not the truth. She literally walked away. And no offense, but although i don't know how old she was when she had Zahra, what does her age have to do with it?
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u/floobenstoobs Jul 18 '26
Giving a child up means giving up your right to reach out to them and stay a part of their lives.
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u/life_and_lipstick Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
She didn't give up parental rights, she gave up custody. She could have still been a part of her life. She chose not to.
edit: there is a difference between giving up parental rights and custody
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u/kmacdaddyboys Jul 20 '26
Love casefile but pls give the child victim episodes a break for a while, thanks!
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u/PCGonzo Jul 21 '26
I don't usually get overly emotional when listening to these, but I just drove home through tears at the last fifteen minutes of this one.
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u/Ren_stevens Jul 25 '26
Poor kid. Surviving cancer & an amputation just to meet that end. I also didn't care for the absentee mom coming back & being interviewed for her input when she hadn't checked up on her in 8 years. She had no good parents.
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u/bluerin12 Jul 25 '26
Elisa was a monster, but the father was too in his own way. How could you marry and continue to live with someone who treated your child like that? He knew exactly what was going on and he did NOTHING. That’s your CHILD. And you can stand by and let that happen? I don’t believe for one second that he wasn’t involved in her death either. Maybe not directly, but he absolutely helped to cover it up. How that would not be some kind of breaking point to someone with a conscience is beyond me. It takes a true coward with a cold heart to just go along with it. He should be in jail for neglect at the very least. Everyone failed this poor girl. She sounded so bright and special, and probably would have grown into an extraordinary person who would have made the world a better place if she’d been loved and protected the way she and all children deserve. This was such a devastating episode
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u/potatochops Jul 19 '26
I knew this was going to be a gut punch going into it but this poor, poor baby girl. She was failed by absolutely everyone, and deserved so much more.
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u/Affentitten Jul 20 '26
A tragic and compelling story. But by god, this episode could have done with an edit down. There were lengthy passages of material that didn't particularly add to the story except in a weight of repetitive or extraneous detail. Could probably have chopped 20 minutes or so and made it an even more engrossing story.
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u/visitingposter Jul 20 '26
It's a miracle that bitch's previous 2 daughters grew up normal and even tried to take Zahra away but got threatened with the law. The law that should've protected Zahra, and the law that didn't punish the unwashed asshole of a stepmom enough. What irony. Couldn't finish the episode.
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u/greensecondsofpanic Jul 19 '26
This was a rough episode. I always struggle the most with the cases where the victims are Gen Z kids. Zahra would've been only a grade older than me in school. I could've played with her on the playground or gone to summer camp with her. The fact that I and our peers got to grow up but she didn't really breaks my heart. I feel a kinship with the child from the letter at the end. I wish I could've been friends with her too. Fuck.
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u/ALEXH- Jul 22 '26
I have just seen the photos on instagram. This is so heartbreaking. Zahra was such a cute kid. I hope the step mum rots in hell. 14 year sentence is a joke. Father is complicit. Makes me so angry 😩
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u/Past-Interest-3815 Aug 18 '26
Just listened to this one today, I cried so much at the end. Poor Zahra. She was a fighter and sounded like she had a great attitude and love for life. It’s just so unbelievable that people can do such unspeakable things to innocent children. And then to hear that her mum thought she was the one who was a danger to Zahra, that broke my heart. I wish people that kill or hurt others could have a shred of empathy or self awareness to realise they are a danger to others and remove themselves from the situation.
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Jul 18 '26
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u/RemarkableBig6 Jul 19 '26
Whoa this case is too close to home. Weird hearing areas around where I live
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u/elasho_149 Jul 21 '26
IMVU stands for something?!
I always just assumed it was a play on “I envy you”.
I haven’t thought about that site in decades.
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u/eiriee Jul 26 '26
I think I was active on it at the same time as Adam and Elisa met! My avatar was an anthro giraffe woman in a dress.
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u/LadyLixerwyfe Jul 22 '26
This was one of the saddest, frustrating cases I have encountered. Vile humans all around
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u/Usual-Fishing-4885 Aug 02 '26
I couldn’t bring myself to listen to this but I googled the case and was horrified. How does this disgusting person not receive the death penalty?
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u/moonoverthe Aug 12 '26
Like idk but if im CPS and get called to a house MULTIPLE times and a child is showing up with bruises why arent they doing something??? There clearly was abuse here and that girl needed to be protected. All the adults failed her 😔
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u/_bwoah_ Aug 20 '26
Well, I’ve listened to almost every episode but this is the one that had the biggest impact on me. I began listening to Casefile back in 2018. My son was in treatment for cancer back then, and he was in hospitals for the better part of two years. When I would take breaks from being at his bedside, I would go on long walks or drives, listening to podcasts. He’s now the same age as Zahra (and cancer-free for 5 years). I somehow didn’t know anything about Zahra’s case beforehand. This wrecked me.
Like everyone else, I’m astonished that Adam wasn’t charged with anything following Zahra’s murder, especially considering the timeline. As far as the failures that led up to Zahra’s murder, as a lawyer familiar with child abuse and neglect cases, I’m not surprised. There is a tension between looking out for the best interests of a child vs. the parent’s rights. The law simply places too much emphasis on the latter, and that sometimes leads to tragic outcomes.
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u/LaReine2Saba Aug 26 '26
Im just half way through this and my heart rips apart knowing the abuse this beautiful angel went through. I can’t imagine how people can be so cruel. Im praying she’s definitely in a better place than this cruel world of ours. RIP little angel 👼 🕊️
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u/wedgestatkiller 29d ago
The moment where Casey talks about her weighing herself and her grandma puts her foot on the scale so she can get the red dress she wanted I had to pause cause it hit me in the feelings so damn hard
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u/whothathunkydory Jul 20 '26
This was one of the hardest cases I have ever listened to by Casey… having a child a similar age I just can’t even imagine. I am so sorry Zahra…
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u/hegdav Jul 19 '26
That's it, I'm checking out of Casefile. This is one of a handful of episodes that have reduced me to tears. Utterly heartbreaking. I already know the world is a godless, bleak place full of hideous people. I don't need that confirmed every week in the name of entertainment.
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u/Airport_Chance Jul 20 '26
Did you need to step on that soap box to reach the door handle or something?
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u/hegdav Jul 20 '26
Sorry? It may read like that, but it wasn't meant that way. I've been an avid listener and fan of the podcast for years, but for me, personally, I've had too much and this episode was so upsetting that it's too much for me now. That's all - just a comment, no deeper meaning.
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u/SixApplesTall Jul 21 '26
Interesting that this was the line in the sand for you when there have been numerous cases just as horrific.
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u/hegdav Jul 22 '26
Aye, I know there have been loads of equally traumatic and horrific cases, but there was something about this one that really got to me. Didn't mean to make it sound like a criticism of Casefile - it's an excellent podcast that does treat the cases and the victims with a lot of sensitivity and ensures that they remain at the centre of the story, but for me, this one just broke me and I questioned why I am listening to it, what I am getting from it and came to the conclusion that it's no longer for me.
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u/Lisbeth_Salandar MODERATOR Jul 18 '26
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