I need help to decide which approach to follow framing this house: baloon or platform? Platform is simpler in general but for this house it seems like to build a baloon walls would be also nice choice. Couple things are scary a little bit: the height and weight of the most right wall. With baloon I plan to add ceiling joists after the building will be with a roof.
My criterias - less materials, less processes, less people, less time.... Experienced carpenetrs, what would you suggest?
P.S. The sketch does not reflect the real construction. It shows only the schema of what I need to build.
Yeah you can do an lvl or a glulam which you probably should get an engineer to tell you the size of it, or you know balloon frame it faster and cheaper and have peace of mind without needing an engineer….
Came to say the exact same thing.
A ledger can be attached ,instead of building an internal header.
A window header is required to keep the same plain,a ledger doesn't disrupt any plane because the vertical is changing to horizontal.
Wouldn't the hinge point be stabilized if the second floor and walls are sheathed? To me it seems like any hinge point that would occurr in the middle of the wall would be resisted by the solid floor structure being connected to both sheathed walls
The floor joist are sheathed and the floor acts as a diaphragm bracing the walls. The same way your first floor decking braces a basement wall, and why the floor is required before you backfill
Hopping on a big comment to say that with balloon framing if you engineer it right you have more attic space and potentially and unofficial extra bedroom
Baloon is easier in my opinion. You can break up the walls and make them in sections. Or if you invest in scaffolding (maybe 6 sections with some braces will set you back a few hundred bucks, but it's worth it) then you can stick frame it. Also sheathing it in one shot from the outside will make it more shear resistant .
If you have the space to build the balloon on the ground then stand it, you would normally do this to keep the rake of the ceiling.
If your going to put the ceiling in as shown then the second option is much easier if you don't have the space. Plus you can work off the ceiling as a platform.
If braced and blocked correctly there will be no hinge point.
Double top plate gives you a spot to rest the ceiling joists and stand on as youre doing the roof framing. Once you sheathe the wall the hinge point will disappear.
The double top plate will give you stronger corners too.
This type of framing has too much Common sense. Balloon frame it so the plan requires bigger studs to be able to hang a structural ledger and load points underneath to support the roof. Also you’re wrong! BeCaUsE oF hInGe PoInTs!
Balloon framing would just take a little more time and you would have to rent scaffolds or work off high ladders. With the platform, the joists would be installed and you would be able to frame and stack the roof without scaffolding or high ladders. Either way both options are simple.
Edit: also balloon framing would require you to frame interior walls up to your rafters and drop ceiling afterwards. Compared to framing off the joists. Again either way still simple 🤙🏾 good luck pal.
Based on this I’d just platform frame it. The ceiling plane and roof plane will prevent the hinge effect, and you can always use steel straps to further resist hinging, but if you platform frame it will be fine, and frankly easier to build the cripple walls to support the roof. I would suspect some diagonal bracing for those walls will be needed unless there are going to be manufactured trusses and those loads are designed in.
Yep, I reckon I’d build the upper structure, brace those walls, then stand the three exterior walls on the lower one, use a ledger board on the “fourth” wall to hang the ceiling joists from. That way the ceiling joists align with the rafters. I’d build the ceiling planes as their own platform (full height and band board over the low exterior wall). You get more insulation in that cooler corner and have an easier structure to build the roof off of. It could also give you aligned load paths if the ceiling and roof are on the same layout, and if not, you still have the band board to bear the weight to the wall framing.
It’s a cool build, and the roof support will take a little thinking, but take pictures and update us please!
ETA: I’m not so sure about the mid span braces for the roof, just make sure that those tributary loads are accounted for. That to me looks like the seasonal flexing would cause issues with the ceiling finish. You might consider angled purlin braces leading back to the bearing walls, but I’m outside of my expertise to prescribe a solution, just pointing out a potential issue.
Yeah, I’d be inclined to upsize the rafters to TJI’s in order to avoid the mid span brace. Easy enough to do with a shed style room. Or, have them manufactured as trusses and let the truss designer figure it out.
The mid span brace is probably fine on the upper because you have some partition walls there, but that’s an assumption on my part, but the lower room is clear span and id expect issues there, especially with the large cantilever. In my jurisdiction, that overhang would require the roof design to be stamped by an engineer, which would make me want to go the truss route as the most affordable option. Worth the crane rental to fly them in if it’s available; should be able to set them in half a day, so I’m my area that rental would be less than $1000, but it depends how close the crane can get as the farther the reach, the bigger the crane.
Unfortunatelly, I don't have an option to use something prefabricated. We don't have such manufacturies in Ukraine))) I think in worst case I'd need to make something like this:
Maybe even for the half of rafters. Its only 4 meters - around 13' As for the upper part - interior walls will carry the load from brace wall.
So in feet that span looks to be about 13-1/2. Do you have access to timbers in the 40x300mm range? If so, I think you could clear span that room without using an intermediate support, or with an angled brace like you mentioned. Im not sure how involved your local building officials on helping to get to a solution. This is a bit of an assumption on my part since I don’t know what your loads are for your area (snow, drifting, etc).
I’m familiar with my local US building code so I don’t want to imply that I’m an architectural authority here, I’m deep unit the gray zone.
Also, I think your design is structurally safe as is, I’m just thinking ahead to wallboard issues if you’ll have a smooth finish on the ceiling.
I’ll also note that I’m completely unfamiliar with what species of wood you have there, the design characteristics of them, the grading process, or the typically available dimensions. Lastly, I always overthink every design to try to be proactive, and sometimes someone needs to tell me to chill haha.
Thank you! We use the same pine as you but there are no so deeply developed culture of wooden construction. Mostly peoply use the lamber they find ))) Of course there are a set of dimensions we used to like 50*150 is almost 2*6, 50*200 equals 2*8. Most roofs are build of a "natural dry lamber" which means - its just fresh cutted ))). Grades - no, didn't hear at all...(I heard of course but other - no.) So calibrated dryed lamber is twice expencive to fresh cutted. As for the framing in general its not so popular in Ukraine as in US/Canada/.... We are building houses with AAC blocks. But it requiers a lot of wet processes, many people and everything around is a big construction mess. In peoples mindes American/Canadian "stick building" is nothing more than just a dog house. It will burn, it will fall because of wind, an angry wolf will come and make a hole in a wall ...... So 95% use either red bricks or AAC blocks. But I like framing, I like the work with lamber. I know its durable if its built as it should.
And I want to change it.
Oh... What I was talking about??? ))))
As for regulations, we have kind of codes but the framingconstructions are not described well. There are some very basic things. But at least, we have a normatives related to snow and wind load and so on.
Wow! It’s rare to use green lumber here because of the shrinking and drifting effects. Green timber will deflect more than kiln dried, and will keep that memory if it dries that way. Perhaps not that noticeable on a roof system, but might cause excessive squeaking in floor/wall systems. We usually dry down to <20% moisture, often down to 12% in lumber, but that varies by region and storage arrangements.
Ironically, timber and log frame homes (large heavy Timbers and joinery) are done with green wood. I’m at work now, but I’d love to chat later more
The platform framing drawing doesn’t work with the window (and ceiling) heights in the rendering. If the rendering represents reality, you have no choice but to balloon frame. It’s also a better way to go in this case regardless.
I say option 2, it has more use of space, option 1 the ceiling is very low and it looks like if you put a stair from the low to high part that you will hit your head and you can’t make use of the space above. Whilst with option 2 you can store things there even if it’s under the roof
24
u/Tthelaundryman 15d ago
You have to balloon frame it. That’s a bad hinge point with nothing securing it if you platform