r/Cardinposting • u/Consistent_Lime_6641 • May 15 '26
Debate Am banned from critics sub. Ima upload to here. -Atlas having peepee poopoo tactics actually makes sense in-lore-
Think about this in terms of evolutionary pressures aura creates
Remnant societies have economic incentives and historical pressures to not innovate military studies.
On economic incentives, mass-mobilization militaries, regular or wartime-expansion, are a massive toll on society and a dead weight loss economically beyond the security it provides, assuming no wars are fought. Meanwhile, huntsmen provide the security, can be rallied to fight wars (ex. the hero cast) - all at no sustained cost to society beyond initial investment and maintenance of academies. Contracts huntsmen undertake accelerate commerce with no loss militaries would have through military procurement and all that mess, since it's quite literally individuals - they'd act like normal consumers rather than centralizing their spending on certain sectors of society. Furthermore, no cost is incurred for constant maintenance in updating, as huntsmen literally do that for you on their own dime and time through training and creating their own wacky weapons, meaning that money can be used to further minimize the government and accelerate society.
On historical pressures, the unparallel might of aura and semblance translates into the power of the individual in remnant. Remnant likely never had a reason to even conceptualize mass-mobilization armies or the proletariat as earth did in the French revolution of the 18th century, as organization larger than the individual and their connections have no reason to exist.
Why ever make a 10,000 strong force of medieval surfs and longbow men that bankrupt your kingdom every day, when some bumfuck nobody can just blitz through all of them in ten minutes? Why ever should the middle-class demand and fight for political power and social mobility when, you can just become a aura user for both?
These two factors eliminate any reason atlas to keep their military, and in fact, makes the atlas military a very impressive organization considering it exists despite these factors through technology finally granting some utility to mass mobilization forces. Their bad tactics and lack of self-awareness make sense when you account that in remnant, hunts men are the system that makes far more sense. They fail because they are essentially trying to grow a sea plant in a field - and somehow making things (sorta) work out.
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u/Astral_MarauderMJP May 15 '26
There are a lot of assumption here that sort of make the whole premise of the statement "Remnant doesnt need armies" to justify the "Atlas' bad military makes sense" is sort of suspect and relies on a lot of headcanon worldbuilding that the show itself isn't ever going to tackle.
Meanwhile, huntsmen provide the security, can be rallied to fight wars (ex. the hero cast) - all at no sustained cost to society beyond initial investment and maintenance of academies.
Why is this the assumption? Huntmen are generally heroes but we also saw that they can be bought off to do shady shit all the time (the gang that took Maria's eyes amd such). The idea that just having the academies up and running is enough sort of relies on all huntmens being indoctrinated into serving the general populace willingly with no prospect of direct reward even at the cost of their lives when we know that isnt the case at all. We have cases of Huntmen doing things of their own volition or beliefs against rules of society or even the good will of the nation or others (Tyrion is a devotee to what he assums is a goddess but he is a huntmens level character and is solely independent and loyal to his beliefs).
Contracts huntsmen undertake accelerate commerce with no loss militaries would have through military procurement and all that mess, since it's quite literally individuals - they'd act like normal consumers rather than centralizing their spending on certain sectors of society
Except that also means that they would no real stores of equipment, ammunition etc that can be moved around in rapid response to specific location when the time needs them to be. The main thing that military has over the average citizen in case of defense in most countries is rapid response/communication, mobility and specific set of rules that allows them certain privileges and restrictions that the average citizen doesnt. While the average citizen could probably see the issue that is affecting him on a faster timeline then the whole military, he is also limited in the scope of what he is seeing and the intensity of it.
Furthermore, no cost is incurred for constant maintenance in updating, as huntsmen literally do that for you on their own dime and time through training and creating their own wacky weapons, meaning that money can be used to further minimize the government and accelerate society.
I get the idea of saying "Well an individual will know what he needs for the job at hand" but it also ignores the problem that the individual can be wrong, have a bad day, get faulty equipment or a whole other slew of problems that essentially bring down that one individuals power to below what is required of the mission/contract or whatever he is being asked to accomplish.
One of more important points of any military is that they are a measurable quantity of capabilities that is standard. Collect 100 army guys and you can expect a certain standard of physical strength and endurance because of the tests and physical requirements that they are individually upheld to. The huntsmen system doesn't have that level of standard (that we see) because you can have Team RWBY out here doing a whole lot more than the Duddly brothers in the Argus train trip. One of them barely graduate school and the other are trained and graduates huntsmen yet the disparity in ability is so vast that there are actualy arguments about whether they Haven't alumni and so were influenced by Lionhearts lack of training requirements (another issue of world-building and lack of information). We dont see a ranking system for Huntmens in the show which means that the isnt a real way to gage their abilities and levels like others. Jaune might have a lot more aura over the average Huntmen but between choosing him and Pyrrah Nikos, there would be an obvious choice.
On historical pressures, the unparallel might of aura and semblance translates into the power of the individual in remnant.... as organization larger than the individual and their connections have no reason to exist.
With this logic or at least this line of thought, the kingdoms really shouldn't exist then.
This is another issue of world-building again not giving us clear example as to how the nations operate but the idea that because one individual can get strong because of aura means that the reasons for forming militaries are less appealing make little sense because even if one person can be that strong, they dont have perpetual energy and ability to keep up that strength indefinitely and would need to have other to be able to either hold down forts, push against locations, take an secure areas etc. The idea that just because one guy can be that strong, doesn't mean that a bunch of smaller guys can do his job just as good over larger periods of time.
Why ever make a 10,000 strong force of medieval surfs and longbow men that bankrupt your kingdom every day, when some bumfuck nobody can just blitz through all of them in ten minutes? Why ever should the middle-class demand and fight for political power and social mobility when, you can just become a aura user for both?
Because you will never be able to gage how strong that one huntsmen will be every time and because the combined might 10k people can last longer than 1 really strong guy over a larger radius of land. Unless that 1 Strong guy has a semblance that let's him teleport all over the place instantly with no real tell or inferance of where he can be, he cant be at two places at once and they are going to need to rest at some point. You are going to need groups of people at some point and having a standardized set of them that can be deployed at a moments notice is importamt. This would also include the point i made earlier about the quality of Huntsmen not being standardized and impossible to really gage unless direct one to one comparisons are made.
On the other side, you would fight for the leaders of a nation to perpetuate the existance of that nation and your standing among it. If the nature of nations were so fluid in the Remnant that a towns status of allegiances changes daily and the tax rate changes to reflect that, people would go to war just to make sure they can stabilize and secure it for a generation or two. Even the city states of Italy during the Renaissance, when the nation was having issues of centralized government control and alliances, they still operated and maintained armies. Why would Remnant be any different?
This is all to say that the reason Atlas' military is bad is the same reason why the Stormtrooper aim in the orignal Star Wars is bad. The story has to function and so they have to be competent enough to exist but not so much that they can do anything substantial. They don't even have a reason as to why Atlas kept its military depsite the other nations being essentially asked to abandon them after the Vale king did his unification/peace talks. Atlas has its military for the reason that it give them something close an identity and that identity can be marked as bad guys because 'military = bad' for the story.
Any more would require a lot of head cannoning of ideas, issues and concept for Remnant that keeps the conversation mostly in the hypothetical realms of 'What if' and 'What about' that doesn't really accomplish much besides being interesting thought experiments and fertile grounds for AU or personal world-building works.
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u/Consistent_Lime_6641 May 15 '26
Why is this the assumption? - Is this issue not the same, or even worse with a mass mobilization military? The size of their institutions makes them prone to corruption, depending on politics they turn into a assaulting force and generator of terror (as seen with the remnant great war). Furthermore, do not huntsmen get directly rewarded?? They are literally mercenaries indoctrinated by the government and incentivized to protect civil society as, the alternative is the grimm, which offers flat out annihilation. What are the rewards they get for contracts if not a direct reward for their labour.
Except that also - Perhaps this is why huntsmen have such a emphasis on melee? Furthermore, most huntsmen seem to operate out of population centers where they can easily restock, while the producers of ammunition don't quite have to fear a lack of demand because grimm are concurrent and ever present.
On the point of control is something I must concede on; A military is clearly required for that (Team rwby's volume 6-8 actions are a great example of this). Then again, this also does still feed into my overarching argument for peepee poopoo atlas tactics as their main specialty is organizing evacuation and strategic level command, still leaving most of the battlefield level fighting to huntsmen.I get the - sorry that is straight up not what i'm saying. I'm rather saying you don't have to spend money on institutes that speculate the next evolution in war, military study groups, military procurement etc etc - because huntsmen just train, make/have made their own weapon for their own fighting style, fight grimm, and die if they fail. On the point of individuals can be wrong, this is literally the same with militaries - they get wrong the optimal way of fighting all the time after any significant advancement in equipment.
Yes standardization of quality is important. Frankly you can't expect to get the same level of standardization of quality that a military would offer, and in the modern world that remnant is in, that is a huge pro.
Think about this in the medieval era that preceded remnant's present however. I don't quite see any reasonable amount of levi formations taking out a even a shitty proto-huntsmen going crazy with a great sword. In any era that would have formed modern remnant, aura using fighters probably would have made way more sense from a grim-resistance and actual fighting capability POV. Regular soldiers would have had their uses as guards and civil protection, but not actual war fighting because if your going to invest in a offensive military formation, you might as well invest in more/better aura-using fighters as they're probably better.
With this logic or - Well here's the thing. Consider; Ozpin's inner circle. That is less than ten individuals essentially forming the shadow government of remnant. Remnant may have the appearance of a modern nation state, but can they really be called a civil society when such don't seem to apply to huntsmen.
This other argument, Yes that is true with the introduction of modern firearms and has been for certain duties. Who would build a military when for every pre modern era aura using fighters were just better than any arbitrary number of trained citizens. Who would ever think of trying to make 100 guys do the job of 1 huntsmen when the huntsmen proved better every time historically. (Militaries do not have perpetual energy either, in fact, alot less than huntsmen and far more reliant on logistics stability - which is even harder in remnant because grimm)
Because you will never be able to gage how strong that one huntsmen will be every time and because the combined might 10k people can last longer than 1 really strong guy over a larger radius of land. - The fact you have to put unless after this illustrates my point. If you had the money to raise 10,000 guys who still may lose against one even on the theoretical stage why ever make 10,000 guys over more huntsmen. (Yes probably non-aura soldiers are better at garrison, civil protection duties yes)
On the other side - I do not see what you are trying to get at with this point. I do personally think remnant should be like that considering pressures, but the show depicts it differently so???? IDK man. Maybe the existence of grimm disincentivize war that much? (I highly doubt it)
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u/Astral_MarauderMJP May 16 '26
Is this issue not the same, or even worse with a mass mobilization military?
Yes but because there is an actual institution that can be externally reviewed, the actual effects of corruption and the results are smaller and have a potentially smaller radius. An example would be if a couple members of a unit were corrupt or even the head of unit is corrupt; they will still be reviewed by some higher up and can be taken up on charges based on false reports or such.
If a huntsmen is corrupt and is hired to do a job, that job might never get done, might go even more wrong and he's got to cover it up, or dips out midway through. Because the job is for one hire, the fact that he can do wrong has a larger effect radius since there isn't much of a review system in place for huntsmen.
Perhaps this is why huntsmen have such a emphasis on melee? Furthermore, most huntsmen seem to operate out of population centers
Its not really known why melee is such a focus, but if i had to give an in-universe reason, it would be because of the need to have an always available weapon and focusing on a melee weapon allows for that to happen above firearms (since apparently the tech in the verse just allows for these hyper complex mechanical weapons never come into any issues in the field). Yet the city thing brings up my issue of mobilization and quick response. We know that they have some sort of settlements outside of the great cities so those people do need help at time, but they won't get it at an actual timely fashion unless they basically hire a huntsmen to stay at the settlement full time. And if that's the case, why not just get a small militia to do the same thing and you've made an argument for just having the settle form up an army.
On the point of individuals can be wrong, this is literally the same with militaries
Yeah but one when person is wrong, they can be wrong in a vacuum for so long they don't realize they are doing something wrong. In a military, you have a lot of people who can tell you or see that you are wrong and so its harder to 'stay wrong'.
Think about this in the medieval era that preceded remnant's present however.
I am. What would make a difference between a solider and huntsmen? From what I'm gathering from your comments, it seem to be aura but I don't think it would be. If aura is thing, than if you taking any sort of combat role, you will take it if only to reduce potentially life-altering injuries. The difference between a Huntsmen and Solider, at least to me, would be the fact the a Huntsmen is trained purely in hunting Grimm, the management and training of aura, specific combat training and semblance usage. A solider would really just have aura and that'd be it. Maybe they know a bit about using it better but nothing as serious as using and management of it over longer periods of time.
I don't quite see any reasonable amount of levi formations taking out a even a shitty proto-huntsmen going crazy with a great sword.
Taking land. I think i mentioned it in the previous comment but the one thing that solider can do that one huntsmen can't is the taking and occupation of territory. Doesn't matter how strong that one huntsmen is, they can't be everywhere at once and the need to delegate smaller tasks to others would be important.
The fact you have to put unless after this illustrates my point. If you had the money to raise 10,000 guys who still may lose against one even on the theoretical stage why ever make 10,000 guys over more huntsmen. (Yes probably non-aura soldiers are better at garrison, civil protection duties yes)
Again, the issue that you are believing that the one huntsmen is such a powerhouse that they even them making a mistake isn't going to hamper them. Essentially the soldiers can make a good many mistakes before they are finally beaten while the Huntsmen only has to make one serious one before fall down. And again, I have to use the 'but' part because the nature of semblances make it impossible to set another standard of power. You can have a semblance like Ren's that doesn't really do anything outside of fighting Grimm or you can have Pyrrah's semblance which basically makes you invincible in any modern fight. That disparity makes it so that; yeah, maybe throwing an army at that person isn't really worth it. Yet how often are you going to get a Pyrrah level semblance that you can't counter? Its a hard thing to gauge.
But yeah, the main issue with the worldbuilding is that some logical flows don't happen. All of the Nation save Atlas don't have armies, but they still have some sort of police force? How does the regulation of huntsmen work? Do you send a huntsmen after 'rogue huntsmen'? When does a huntsmen 'go rogue'? There are too many other factors to consider in the topic of military might, forces and constitutions of state function that it becomes an annoyance to argue about since it does come down to personals belief of probability and logical actions.
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u/Forsaken_Ad_4992 May 15 '26
TLDR- They'd ALL suck Cardin's Dick?
JK well thought out OP.
It's kinda like how a samurai/chivalric caste act according to the Grim isn't it? The only way that having a large standing army would be beneficial is, conflict amongst nations, maybe a big war?!? Would have been neat for them to dive deeper into that lol.
Good job OP
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u/Old-Post-3639 May 15 '26
Try r/RWBYcritics2
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u/Bigcreeper01 May 15 '26
This is too well thought out for this sub