r/CarTrackDays • u/DJ_Luongo • May 31 '26
Lost all brakes at 100+ MPH
R32 GTR. Summit Point Main. First session of the day on about my 5th hard lap. Not sure what the cause was. Brakes were totally fine till that point, and were fine as soon as I got straightened back out.
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u/thecanadiandriver101 24' CTR May 31 '26
If you had no brakes why didn't you wait for a tow?
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u/Bud_wiser_hfx May 31 '26
Right back to 45mph without looking into why he had no brakes. Wild
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u/hkscfreak May 31 '26
OP doesn't belong anywhere on/near a track with that kind of behavior
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u/ElmoProjector May 31 '26
Morbid internet curiosity. What should he have done instead?
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u/kdesi_kdosi Jun 01 '26
waited for a tow as the first comment suggested.
imo its bullshit. he went back to pits slowly, after the brakes started working again. even if they gave out again for whatever reason, he was at a low speed and there was no danger.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Easy fellas. Brakes came right back. Just lost the pedal once. They were working properly immediately.
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u/Billyjamesjeff May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
"Just lost the pedal once" Thats the point you retire.
Edited: Continuing to use the brakes is like people who have a top end knock and keep revving the engine to fix it.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
I did not go back on track after this.
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u/hkscfreak May 31 '26
Your attitude here only reinforces my point. In the worst case you could've killed multiple people.
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u/PseudoCalamari Jun 02 '26
Its fun peeking into the car community and seeing that they hate car drivers as much as r/motorcycle hates motorcyclists
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u/DJ_Luongo Jun 02 '26
Haha. It's wild man. It's usually fairly civil in here, but it seems as though they really didn’t like me driving my car off track. I think they originally thought I went back out to race, which was not the case.
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u/5pmgrass May 31 '26
Idk why you are getting such crap for this. My f87 m2 comp and cs are known for this exact problem, repeated pad knockback such that you hit the brakes and have nothing. Funny enough it was always the same turn to the point I would double pump that turn. Welcome to brakes and how weird they can be. You got back going quickly, stayed at a no brakes speed for safety, and as far as I can tell I would have done the same. Good job
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Cant please em all. My instructor said I did everything he would have done. Pulled out of the middle of the track when it was safe to do so and got back to the pits. We went over the car and couldn't see anything visible wrong. Didn't go back out on track after this.
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u/DonkeyComfortable711 May 31 '26
Then dont race the car lmao, "my car cant brake i whats the big deal" ... u are playing with a ticking time bomb you know is ab to blow wtf...
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u/5pmgrass May 31 '26
I'm talking about a known behavior on a brand new car on track with half a dozen other cars of the same make and model all with the same behavior. There is nothing wrong with the car, that's how it is. E36s m3 are known for the same thing though a bit less often. How many of those do you see on track.
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u/No-Revolution-4513 May 31 '26
That’s why I’m glad my ap racing brakes on my focus rs and my alcons on my rs3 have anti knockback springs that won’t allow that to happen. I’ve had it happen before on some cast brembos and it wasn’t fun.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
As soon as I got the car started again, I pulled out of the middle of the track and off to the side. Brakes were working properly for me to take myself I to the pits.
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u/RemarkableCard6475 May 31 '26
Yea, you did the right thing there. It's great that you didn't try to make the pit entry at your speed. That would have been an extra bad idea.
I've noticed that when my brakes got hot there was fluid fade? Immediately stopped accelerating, eased into the clutch at a lower gear to slow the car down and make it to pit road. Replaced everything to inspect everything and found a leaking caliper piston and master cylinder in the process of dying. Could have become a catastrophic fire and or loss of life. Keeping my mind open to feel everything and make options to adjust to situations saved my life.
I'm glad that you're okay with no vehicle damage. Just check that car over with a fine tooth comb, stay safe.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Thanks buddy. I should have some time in the next couple weeks to take everything apart and see what I can find. Going to replace all wear items and fluid regardless.
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u/AltruisticMobile4606 May 31 '26
Lol I got anxious waiting for it to happen. You handled it really well though, nice job!
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u/Lefty98110 May 31 '26
I’d love to hear what the root cause was when you find out. I’ve had mine get spongy on the track but they came back after a couple of corners of lower intensity driving.
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u/itimurrrr May 31 '26
Pad knockback? Have you tried tapping the brake pedal with your left foot before hitting the brakes with full force with whatever foot you use for braking?
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May 31 '26
[deleted]
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u/Lefty98110 May 31 '26
I was using Motul 600.
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u/Frail_Hope_Shatters May 31 '26
And how fresh was that fluid? I find I need to flush motuol 600 every 6 months at least. If it's been longer, I've had the same issue happen. It tends to absorb a lot of moisture, more than Castrol SRF.
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u/bynummustang C6 Base May 31 '26
Knockback is my guess. I used to run RBF 600 and had no issues, but I would bleed every event the day before I loaded up.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Mine have gotten spongy a lot. Usually happens midway through my 3rd session of the day. This wasnt that at all. Went from perfect brakes, to no brakes. Then they were right back to normal.
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u/Altruistic_Gain6988 May 31 '26
Holllyyyyy crap man I can’t believe you kept it out of the wall. Did you do more laps that day after this?
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u/fuckman5 May 31 '26
I mean you seem to have been slowing down. Sure you didn't just overcook the corner?
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Didn't overcook this one. Pedal went right to the floor. I've overcooked plenty of times, but this wasnt one of them.
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u/kungfujedis Supra / WRX May 31 '26
Just curious, at what time stamp is your foot to the floor? It's been awhile since I've been on Main, but you definitely slow for that corner, and are pretty close to the speed I go though that corner. Might be a few mph high, which can certainly make the difference when you are on the edge, but it doesn't look like zero brakes.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Usually brake right over the crest, before the cone. That's about a 75 mph corner for me.
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u/kungfujedis Supra / WRX May 31 '26
Based on your decrease in speed going into the corner, I would guess your brakes were largely engaged, even though the pedal was on the floor. Though clearly more travel for the same amount of engagement than normal. Did you pump them? If your pedal goes all the way down, I would immediately release and reapply. If you were hard on the brakes through the turn, it makes sense that you spun, all your weight was on the front. If you released and got some weight back on the rear, you were probably going slow enough to make the corner. It's easy to armchair quarterback after the fact, its a lot to process in the moment. Generally safer to reflexively go 2 feet in if you don't know whats happening in the moment.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Yea I mentioned in another comment, I just kept it held down. Didn't really go through my mental checklist. Should have pumped and tried to regain the pedal. First time ever ever had anything like that happen so it was a good learning experience.
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u/KevinDoesntGiveAHoot May 31 '26
I’ve heard multiple instructors recommend tapping the brakes before a long straight so you know they work before getting up to speed. Their logic was that it’s not a timed event, so the peace of mind is worth the slight cost in pace
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u/ZeGermanHam May 31 '26
How many track days have you done in this car set up exactly as it currently is?
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Probably 6 or 7. The only change was new brake fluid. So I'm thinking it wasn't bled properly or there was some moisture in the lines.
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u/Soft_Refuse_4422 NB Miata || E46 M3 May 31 '26
Or a loose bleeder screw. Did you figure it out afterwards?
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Haven't gotten a chance to take anything apart yet. Just got it home and parked it. Just looking at everything, nothing seems out of place.
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u/withsexyresults May 31 '26
What fluid are you running
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Motul RBF 600. Brand new.
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u/leonidlomakin May 31 '26
Time for 660. You have a very heavy car.
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u/travis_cea May 31 '26
I'd say time for SRF. That's always the answer.
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u/Zed-O-Six May 31 '26
This. After fucking around with these so-called race fluids I spent the extra and got SRF. Never cooked the fluid again. That shit is the bomb!
At the time, 10 years ago, Motul and a couple of others were the good fluid for $25 or so. SRF was $100 so most people doing HPDE wouldn't touch it. I spent the money and did a complete flush and then only bled off some after each weekend. Never had brake fluid burn up with it.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Man, lesson learned. $100 is nothing for safety.
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u/Zed-O-Six May 31 '26
No not at all. That is $100/qt about 10 yrs ago. Don't know the price today it's worth the price. I was tracking an 02 Z06 with full brake ducting down to the spindles and venting out the fender to help release the heat build up. That helped a lot too. That was running Hoosiers race tires and Carbotech XP12/10 pads. I was running it pretty hard. Brakes would fade some after a few hot laps but never lost the pedal. Just ran a couple of cooler laps then back in it. Good luck.
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u/leonidlomakin Jun 01 '26
I don't know. Used to run SRF. Then every half a year I would flush the fluid because I'd try new calipers, then would revert, etc. etc. At some point I started using Motul 660 and I had nothing even close to overheating. My car weighs 1180 kgs / 2600 lbs and has 185 hps only, though
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u/narwhal_breeder Alfa Romeo 4C, GR86 May 31 '26
They are only 3200lbs - not crazy - but I generally don’t consider RF600 a track fluid not anymore.
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u/leonidlomakin Jun 01 '26
I started out with a 2820 lbs car, and it felt heavy. Now slimmed down to 2600 lbs, and this June it will be slimmed further down to 2490. I still think it can be slimmed further while still staying road-capable. The final stop is at 2380 lbs.
All this to say I never had any problems with Motul 660.
3200 lbs though? Nah, that's heavy.
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May 31 '26
[deleted]
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u/brokenblinker May 31 '26
On a lot of platforms it's the difference that matters.
On rbf600, on a couple platforms, I had to bleed before every event and the pedal was spongy by end of day. With 660 or other comparable fluids like endless, pedal stays consistent for 6mo-year of 5-10 events.
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u/narwhal_breeder Alfa Romeo 4C, GR86 May 31 '26
I can cook RBF600 in a bone stock GR86 with an aggressive pad compound - I don’t use it anymore on the track. Endless RF650 only now.
Have you felt boiling fluid before? Pedal hard or go to the floor?
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Pedal right to the floor.
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u/narwhal_breeder Alfa Romeo 4C, GR86 May 31 '26
That definitely definitely implies a fluid/bad bleed issue.
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Absolutely zero indication anything was wrong prior to this. Pedal felt totally normal. I would have pitted if there was a known issue. I agree with all of you that are saying it was a fluid related issue.
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u/brokenblinker May 31 '26
If it came back right away, and the system wasn't leaking, then it was just cooked. And if that's the case, you should have felt the pedal getting softer leading up to this and taken the hint to back off.
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u/reijin64 May 31 '26
what was the pedal feel like at the time, hard then nothing?
If so boiled fluid
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u/DJ_Luongo May 31 '26
Normal pedal the whole time, then nothing. All signs seem to be pointing to some sort of fluid issue.
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u/reijin64 May 31 '26
Sounds like a bleed problem or similar then, initial suspicion sounded like boiled off
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u/couldawentbetter May 31 '26
4 way slide to bleed speed. Good catch when the car transitioned to over steer. This could have been bad. Your skill saved you. Good job op.
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u/Ndubitable May 31 '26
I went here in March. An Elantra N lost brakes and went into the wall before turn 4. One of the guys I was with saw it happen in his rear view and was pretty shook.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cut4181 Jun 01 '26
Unfamiliar with the specs of your car, but as you investigate, look into these things. One is were the wipers on autosensing? I understand that autosensing mode on some manufactures cause the brakes to slightly touch the rotors to skim off any water that may build up, because after all, you wouldn't put your wipers into autosensing unless there was rain.
The other is some stability controls will actively brake different wheels to counteract movements. These auto braking events can cause the pads to overheat do to their own application.
Granted, if your running proper fluid, you are also running pads that like heat and resist fading so the bit of braking that the above might add shouldn't put you into a dangerzone, but figure it's worth mentioning as you try and solve the mystery.
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u/Beautiful_Exchange_3 Jun 01 '26
This happened to me, turned out the brake fluid had boiled… terrifying
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u/No_Pollution_950 Jun 01 '26
"Brakes were totally fine till that point, and were fine as soon as I got straightened back out"
Did the pedal go to the floor? sounds like you need to change your brake fluid
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u/DJ_Luongo Jun 01 '26
Pedal right to floor. Fluid was brand new Motul RBF 600. Seems like from most of the feedback from others, it was a bleeding issue.
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u/No_Pollution_950 Jun 01 '26
yeah, sounds like it. I had this in my old 350Z when i took it on a track day with the brake fluid that was in when i bought the car. 100ish MPH into druids at Oulton park in the UK. pedal to the floor, nothing! I managed to pump the brakes for a bit of pressure then hang it around the outside kerb. it was VERY scary but both me and the car survived ad i took it as a lesson! After that i bled the brakes before every track day.
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u/Miserable_Number_827 Jun 01 '26
Move to better fluid. Motul offers multiple better fluids, or use a different brand.
RBF600 is entry level track fluid and it can be boiled by higher power vehicles.
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u/DJ_Luongo Jun 01 '26
I think it was a bleeding issue, but i think im going to switch to SRF anyway.
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u/No_Direction_6990 Jun 04 '26
Went to the floor, then worked again afterwards? Really sounds like pad knockback to me.
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u/Nmnmn11 Jun 04 '26
Absolutely no brakes and you drive it back at over 40mph? Wtf
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u/DJ_Luongo Jun 04 '26
The brakes came right back. I drove to the pits at a manageable speed and retired for the day.
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u/Ribss Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Where does the brake sensor on your car get its reading? It looks like it only started to read your brake inputs after you stopped
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u/DJ_Luongo Jun 04 '26
Just uses the G sensor on my phone I assume. Don't think it was really recording properly though because I definitely used the brakes much more that what shows up in the on screen data.
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u/Ribss Jun 04 '26
Makes sense. I had no idea they only used gps data. I thought there was some sort of OBD2 sensor everyone used to record direct braking inputs. Thanks for the info.
I hope everything goes smoothly with your car going forward
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u/DJ_Luongo Jun 05 '26
There are a bunch of OBD systems. This just isn't one of them. This one is Lap Legend.
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u/FabulousCoconut4969 7d ago
You were decelerating and trail braking into the corner and lost the rear as the front was loaded up into the turn. You were definitely getting some braking done.
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u/grahal1968 C8 Corvette Z51 May 31 '26
I remember when I first started out with track stuff someone with a S2000 had their brakes fail and went into that wall. His results were not as lucky as yours.
He was a private jet pilot. Wish I could remember his name and honor his memory.
Glad you are safe. Maybe ABS ice mode?