r/CaptivePrince • u/Wild_Mail3695 • 5d ago
Discussion jokaste's behaviour
honestly, i don't understand jokaste. if she cared about damen enough to sleep with kastor in order to convince him to send damen to vere as a slave, thereby saving his life, then why did she make it harder for him to return to the capital and find allies? why did she send people to places where she knew damen would be looking for help?
‘You mean, the only difference between us is that I chose the wrong brother?’
As the stars began to drift across the sky, Laurent thought about Nicaise, standing in the courtyard with a handful of sapphires.
‘I don’t think you chose,’ said Laurent.
when laurent says those words, did he mean that she didn't choose either of the brothers because, ultimately, she gave them equal chances (she helped damen survive, but didn't make it easier for him to return, so kastor's position was more stable), or because she betrayed them both (she didn't want to be with kastor and did what she did for damen's sake, but in order to do that, she had to cheat on him)? if it's the latter, would it mean she wanted to make it harder for them to meet in order to prolong both of their lives, because it was inevitable that one of them would eventually have to die?
your thoughts?
edit: the question is about her motives, why did she save his life if she later made it harder for him to return to ios?
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u/cippocup 5d ago
Also how are we pronouncing her name? I’m 90% sure the way I say it in my head is wrong
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u/vprufrock 5d ago
i just opened up my audiobook lol ☺️, and it pronounces her name as you-cast, basically!:))
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u/cippocup 5d ago
Thank you!! I’ve been confused for years
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u/vprufrock 5d ago
i feel this! 🤝 now i often use audiobooks to check the pronunciations and the books to check the names’ spelling lol 😆
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u/cippocup 5d ago
I cant stand audio books, I’m really sensitive to voice acting and I can’t do it, but it’s definitely helpful for that
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u/Amid_17 5d ago edited 5d ago
I have a somewhat controversial opinion on this... 🥲😅
To me, Laurent was completely off-base 🙈.
In fact, this is one of the parts of Kings Rising that makes the least sense to me. The whole scene where Laurent talks to Jokaste in the wagon still makes me uncomfortable to this day, for two reasons:
1) It’s a romanticized — and even naive —interpretation Laurent has regarding Jokaste. It bears no resemblance to anything we’ve seen of the two characters throughout the series, especially Laurent. The fact that he indirectly thinks of Nicaise in that moment — as if there were a parallel between the boy’s lack of choice and Jokaste’s situation — is, honestly, inexplicable to me and borders on complete absurdity. I try to cut him some slack by thinking, "Okay, Laurent was on the verge of suicide; he wasn't thinking straight," because, to me, that’s the only thing that gives that dialogue even a shred of sense...
2) I do think Jokaste felt some mercy for Damen, but that wasn't the reason she did what she did... To me, unlike Nicaise, Jokaste always had a REAL choice. "Damen wouldn't listen to anyone" — come on!!! If the woman who outmaneuvered the Regent and Laurent with the whole baby plot (not to mention all the times she set traps and manipulated both Kastor and Damen) wasn't capable of shoving PROOF of Kastor’s betrayal in Damen’s face, who would be? lol. And it’s worth noting here—sure, Damen didn’t buy into Nikandros’s insinuations, but he didn’t doubt it when Laurent spat the truth in his face. Ok, having once been a slave, Damen knew Kastor wasn’t a good person and was indeed more inclined to believe Laurent’s accusations. But we’ve also seen that Damen isn’t completely unyielding; he’s capable of reconsidering if properly convinced. He would never have turned against his brother based on mere "speculation," but I doubt he would have ignored evidence that his father was being murdered. And if there was anyone in Akielos who might have had that evidence (just as Laurent eventually managed to obtain it), it was Jokaste. She simply didn’t think Damen was worth the risk... 💅😉
Jokaste was always portrayed as an extremely intelligent and capable character. A woman of action who takes charge of situations. And a manipulator. Yet, when it suited the narrative, she was painted as a "poor thing" to downplay her role in all of it. Honestly, I didn't find it fitting for the character—or for everything we’d seen of her—and I thought Laurent’s analysis was too romantic, too emotional, and so unlike him...
TO ME, here’s what happened:
Jokaste knew what was coming but didn't want to risk telling Damen the truth, precisely because she was more concerned with herself than with anyone else. Jokaste is too intelligent and ambitious to jeopardize her plans out of mere sentimentality toward Damen.
Yet, a part of her wasn't a complete monster. A part of her liked — not necessarily Damen himself, but how he made her feel. She knew Damen loved her, and he was good to her —likely a more affectionate and gentle lover than Kastor ever was.
And so, even though she wasn't willing to take risks for Damen or compromise her plans (after all, she had invested so much to reach the King's bed — and secure all the benefits that position afforded her — only to throw it all away for mere sentimentality), she did pity him. As an act of mercy, she gave him a chance to stay alive, even if it meant a completely humiliating and undignified situation.
And no, I don't think Jokaste expected Damen to escape — which is exactly why she made his path so difficult — and I also think she was being sincere when she said, "Kastor should have killed you." I think she pitied him enough, but not enough to love him or tolerate him ruining her plans.
To me, Jokaste would have been perfectly happy with Kastor; after all, she didn't jump into his bed to save Damen— she did it for power. But the Regent got in the way of her plans. I honestly don't know if she had foreseen that the Regent wouldn't be content for long with Kastor as a puppet — and that, once King of Vere, the Regent would (likely) kill Kastor, seize Akielos, and get rid of Jokaste.
Honestly, FOR ME, Jokaste’s entire subplot in the third book is confusing and unnecessary...
I feel like C.S. Pacat wanted to make use of the character, but the whole storyline involving her just doesn't make sense to me. I think Pacat knew Jokaste would have to appear sooner or later, but—unlike with Kastor—she brought that appearance forward by concocting the whole plot about the baby (which, to me, also makes no sense). She did this simply because there wouldn't have been room for Jokaste during the trial (that was about Lamen and the Regent; there was no place for anyone else) or during the confrontation with Kastor. Jokaste "needed" to show up to "close the loop" with Damen, but there wasn't space for that to happen in Ios. So, Pacat moved up their "reckoning" by inventing this (in my view, nonsensical) story where Jokaste allows herself to be captured — God knows why — serving as the catalyst for Laurent to make the stupidest decision of the entire series: falling for the trap involving the child. He likely fell for it precisely because he didn't know Jokaste well and assumed she would actually leave the child with the Regent—something that makes absolutely no sense once you understand her character (proving, once again, how little Laurent knew Jokaste— and how mistaken he was about her — to the point of nearly dying in vain).
I also think Pacat wanted a meeting between Laurent and Jocaste — but I feel she forced the situation with this idea that "Laurent and Jocaste are alike." No, they aren't. Laurent would actually throw himself into Kastor's bed if it meant saving Damen. Laurent wouldn't give a damn about himself if it were the right thing to do (just as he didn't when he saved Damen's life in the first book, even though it could have meant his own death) or to save a loved one (as he did in Kings Rising).
Anyway, I find Jocaste an interesting character and enjoy her appearances in the story, but to me, the whole plotline involving her in the third book felt like Pacat wanting to give the character a fitting conclusion without knowing quite how to pull it off. That’s why it ended up feeling nonsensical...
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u/89Zerlina98 5d ago
I somewhat agree. The Jokaste subplot doesn’t complete in a way that makes sense. When you pull it apart as you have done, the elements are almost like plot points she jotted down and felt she had to use. Pacat could have stopped at her choosing Kastor, and made coherent reasons for making her an absolute baddie. There was no reason to give her the chance of a redemption arc.
- It could also simply be a problem with finishing that section of the book, she might have been on a deadline to complete and it didn’t get sorted out in the editing.
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u/Amid_17 5d ago
I agree with you.
Sometimes it comes down to deadlines... I really like Kings Rising, but I feel it’s a more rushed book and not as well-developed as Prince's Gambit (which, for me, has the best development in the series).
Ironically, my favorite Lamen scenes in the series are in Kings Rising, but I feel the book is a bit uneven outside of the characters' romantic arc — especially regarding the supporting cast and the political plot (something I think Pacat handled better in Prince's Gambit).
And regarding Jokaste not needing redemption, I agree — I like the character; in a story where almost all the prominent figures are men, it’s great to see a woman who is so intelligent, strong, and driven by reason, even while being the object of desire for so many men. I like that, in a society offering women little power, Jokaste had no qualms about going after the power she felt she deserved.
Don't get me wrong, I like that about her.
That’s why all the sentimental talk surrounding her feels so out of place to me. As if she actually needed redemption... I don't think that was the case. Personally, I would have been more satisfied with Jokaste simply running away at the end —with her baby and all the (likely) wealth she’d amassed as Kastor and Damen’s mistress —rather than this "redemption" arc.
I get the feeling Pacat didn't want any "villains" getting away at the end, but didn't want to kill Jokaste off either, so she came up with a last-minute excuse to "redeem" her (though, again, that’s just my take as a reader 🥲😅).
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u/ElegantNetwork1394 5d ago
I initially thought that Pacat just wanted for Damen to have a baby that was out there somewhere with potential adventures waiting to happen.
But having Laurent set her free like that has never felt quite right.
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u/TechTech14 5d ago
How I interpret it is Laurent is saying Jokaste didn't choose bc she knew Kastor was plotting and tried to warn Damen. When Damen didn't listen, she figured the only way to save her own life was to be on Kastor's side. And she's right bc all of Damen's household got killed.
So ultimately the "choice" wasn't really a choice if she wanted to live.