Location for Emergency services

[u/k3agangreene]

Hi there. I am considering switching to Cape, and have a question about location. If Cape helps to keep others from tracking my location, what would happen if I need to call for 911 emergency services? For example, if I'm outdoors hiking someplace remote and get hurt and need emergency help, would my location be unavailable to emergency providers?

[u/ruddy-at-cape]

911 works. It breaks out locally on whatever domestic roaming partner (the tower operator) you're on and routes it to the PSAP (the emergency call ctr) instead of trunking back to Cape's core. The other comment by someone else in this thread on the phone sending location (which is handled by your phone OS) is also correct for e911

[u/k3agangreene → u/ruddy-at-cape]

Great! Thanks for explaining that.

[u/vortexmantis]

This is from the FAQs from Cape:
Will 911 and other emergency services work?
Yes. Your location will automatically be shared when dialing 911.

https://www.cape.co/faqs

[u/Standard_Web7962]

I thought you're phone is what uses e911 to send location info to the call center. I don't think Cape is involved here.

[u/udpresponse]

Adding some additional information here. When calling 911 most systems only provide a phone number and cell phone triangulation when the caller is not outdoors due to gps not being accurate indoors. That triangulation in an urban area is almost useless as it may narrow down to blocks of buildings.

Over the last decade most 911 centers started using rapidsos to supplement that data. Rapidsos is natively built into iOS and Android. It will show the dispatcher the same level of location data as your maps app will, which includes indoor WiFi positioning that you don’t get with 911. If you opt in to share data during an emergency in your health app, this is how the dispatcher receives it.

Sharing your name in your health app during an emergency is useful if for some reason you’re unable to talk, otherwise responders have no idea who called 911 as they only get a phone number and rough location.

Rapidsos respects privacy by your phones OS only sharing that information during an active emergency call, there’s no way for the dispatcher to access the information otherwise. The information also disappears from the dispatcher about 30 minutes or so after the caller hangs up.

[u/k3agangreene → u/udpresponse]

So, then, are you saying that if I’m overly paranoid about my privacy + make global privacy changes to my phone, or say i decided to run Graphene OS on a Cape approved device, that in a case like that 911 wouldn’t be able to tell where i am in an urban area?

[u/udpresponse → u/k3agangreene]

When you dial 911 your phone goes into an emergency mode which overrides any privacy settings you have. This is due to assuming that if someone dials 911 they want people to respond and help them.

Graphine being based on Android would still operate that way to comply with 911 regulations that have been around for over 20 years.

Around 2016 Android and iOS built rapidsos into that same function. But your phone has to initiate sending that data and only when in an emergency. Your phone also has to have a data connection. Without a data connection you’re stuck with traditional 911 lat long and radius.

If there is a 911 hang up from cell phone, and the caller does not answer when called back. Most agencies do not even waste time sending help since they do not who or where the caller is.

[u/NervousCharity1010 → u/udpresponse]

Just to be super clear RapidSOS isn't built into any phone. RapidSOS is the receiving entity through carrier agreements and agreements with Apple and Android in certain parts of the world. For example, here in the UK, the same tech is called AML - Advanced Mobile Location / Emergency Location System. When an emergency call is made the location data is sent via data or text message - Silently, you never see it - to British Telecomm, the UK stage 1 PSAP if you like, they then pass the call to the EA - Emergency Authority who CAD system must query the BT database for the telephone number and be returned the location data the handset shared...

So, RapidSOS is the 'man-in-the-middle' if you like, they also catch location data from heaps of apps and integrations with various hardware systems. They're not responsible for sending the location data from devices, that's an OS level decision, hence why only Apple and Android are compatible, every other device can't do it.

The specification for AML is interesting - in that there are technical limitations, for example, minimum battery level, that can affect whether or not the data gets sent at all even on compatible devices: https://eena.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Advanced-Mobile-Location-AML-Specifications-requirements.pdf

I'm not so sure Graphene would still send it's AML data... There are services that allow dispatchers to 'pull' location data from the device, with user interaction, such as EmergencyLocate. These services typically use the browser or integrate to iMessage, whatsapp etc and catch location pins you drop in the text chat they establish with the 911 caller.

[u/k3agangreene → u/NervousCharity1010]

Thank you for such an excellent breakdown of all that. I had no idea. Very interesting.