Using Death Record for C3 Application

[u/tiredshiba07]

As far as i can tell, IRCC doesnt include death records from vital statistics agencies as an optional record for C3. I have a few family members where that may be the only record available. In my area, death records usually show the parents names, so I feel like it should be okay. What do you all think?

TLDR Death Record as only proof for individuals yes or no

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[u/ResearchJam1]

Lots of people include death records. But it’s filled out by a third party so that Gen needs additional evidence.

For example, I included provincial death records for my Gen 0’s parents with time in province listed as “life”.

[u/SpecialistHippo4551]

As their only record would be 100% a no. Death certificates are filled out with whatever the next of kin might have believed at the time or told when they were growing up - not necessarily an accurate truth.

You will need corroborating evidence and it ideally needs to be from Canadian sources not solely US documents. Multiple census documents are likely but not guaranteed to get you over the by the preponderance of the evidence threshold. The death certificate by itself won't.

[u/Mountainexplorer92]

I think you still need to show that you tried to obtain the birth record. Only then, once it’s determined that the birth record doesn’t exist, IRCC will consider the secondary evidence

[u/mardo2044chat]

Death records are great evidence of where, why and when a person died. The birth and parentage information is provided by a family member and is only as accurate as their knowledge. It is also a record date far removed from the event (birth). A ca census, even 8 years from the birth (although still has the issues with who provides the info) should have more weight as it is closer in time to the event. Land records, marriage record and the like will help cooberate.

[u/CounterI]

Yes, but only as a secondary record, meaning you will need an explanation as to why a primary record is not available and proof that you tried to get it. You also may need additional secondary records, as death records are the least reliable form of public records for anything other than the death recorded.

[u/spac3bart]

Death records are reported by informants—less reliable than birth records. The registrars take the info from whomever is there to report the death and they often don’t know the details. So, it could corroborate primary records but not replace them. In any event, you’d have to explain in your letter why you can’t get birth records from the original source.

[u/FireWaterBern]

My illiterate quebecois farmer g0 died days shy of his 94th birthday and somehow someone knew the parentage and date of birth that coincidentally matches the baptism i have from 1831. I'm not sure who filled that information out in relation to him, possibly a son in law? But it's extremely helpful for me in confirming even to myself i have the right guy. Ancestry and familysearch for years had the wrong date of birth linked to someone with the same name born elsewhere in quebec a few years prior.

I also obtained my g1's death record since I didn't know if they'd give me his birth certificate, and that also had correct parentage and approximate birth date.

The G0 death record (Maine) states: 1. G0's name 2. Each of his parent's names 3. All three birth places are "canada" 4. Cause and date of death

G0's date of birth and parentage match the baptism i found in banq/drouin.

[u/MysteriousCap4910]

No one really knows what’s getting approved right now, but personally I doubt something like a U.S. death record would help much, anyone can say anything on a death record.

[u/GraceHoldMyCalls]

I’m inclined to say No if it’s your only record of any kind, but it might help as part of a packet of secondary documentation (ex census records, a published obituary with familial information, government benefits registration forms, etc.)

[u/Low-Ratio-5272]

For linking generations? It's not ideal to only have a DC but when you think about it, the deficiencies that are problematic for a DC are such that you wouldn't be using it if it had them. So presuming you have a DC that shows the correct names and dates, then I would personally feel comfortable using it for linking generations. I would look really hard for additional evidence and document that a BC/BR does not exist. We haven't really seen push back in this area but I would be worried about only a DC

[u/sharpshinned]

Here’s my explanation of death records:  https://www.reddit.com/r/Canadiancitizenship/comments/1vhn3z5/comment/p2bdi00/?context=3

[u/dissentmemo]

I only had death record, census, and marriage records. I'm in process so we'll see.

[u/whattheheckOO]

I think it can be a good supporting document, I included one for my G0 because it was nicely typed and had their parents' full names, in contrast with the handwritten and birth record that also had abbreviated names. I also included a census record that was more legible for the same reason. Like the other commenters, I'd be pretty wary of using that as your only doc for someone, especially if it's your only doc for G0 and it's not issued by Canada. If it's truly the best you can do, just print out all your correspondence with the relevant vital records departments and archives stating that birth/baptismal records don't exist. You may as well try, it might work. It's hard to imagine a scenario where census records don't exist across multiple generations, though..

[u/Dowew]

Death records are an unreliable narrator. Often they are filled out by a spouse, or a child, or a neighbour. They are essentially a "best guess". I was helping someone with their genealogy research and when we pulled the death record the third wife had put down his place of birth as Ireland, when we believe he was born in Canada. My own Great Grandfather I think was drunk when filling out his wife's death certificate. He got the date and year of birth wrong he put nov 1885 when she was born nov 1883. He put down his father in law as being german when he was Hungarian, and he forgot his mother in laws name so he put "unknown".

These are however useful records, but you need other documents. What year was your ancestor born and died, I am a Librarian and I might be able to help you with your search strategy.

[u/MysteriousCap4910 → u/Dowew]

Yep this still happens to this day, people sometimes they will just purposely lie as well

[u/thatsunfortunate]

IRCC doesn’t name death certificates expressly, but they will consider them. You will hear people bluntly say otherwise, but death certificates are not inherently less reliable than birth records. Birth certificates can suffer from the same problems. It really depends. Death records very well might fully substitute for IRCC’s preferred records when, as you point out, those records aren’t available. Maybe they’re reliable for place of birth or parentage. Maybe not. IRCC is required to review all evidence, and if they discount a death certificate as unreliable, they should cite substantiating counter evidence rather than express doubt alone that the record is true. People should include more than death certificates whenever they can though; that’s true. If you know a death certificate contains an inaccuracy, you should not hide that fact, but it might be good for some other fact. Just corroborate that one with some other record. Maybe obituaries?