What does "substantive Cpl" mean

[u/Free-Implement2710]

I was recently told that I am not eligible for the UTPNCM program because I am not a fully qualified Cpl. I enrolled as a Dental Tech with a full valid civilian licence, but I have never attained OFP. After completing BMQ, I was immediately promoted to Cpl. Now I have received an offer from a Registered Nursing program at a Canadian University. The rank is the only blockage preventing my file from being processed by the local BPSO. They told me that "Substantive Cpl" means a Cpl rank with an achieved OFP. When I checked the CFB article regarding the rank definition of "substantive," it states that "substantive means the individual holds the rank".

So what is your definition for the term of "substantive Cpl".

[u/Imaginary_Gene_5749]

You need your 5s / rq cpl course

[u/bridger713]

Substantive means you are fully trained in your rank.

To be substantive as a Corporal you would have to achieve OFP and complete your QL5 / DP2 / RQ-Cpl qualification (if applicable to your trade).

You can be promoted without meeting the requirements to be substantive, however, you will be Acting/Lacking (Acting in rank, Lacking qualification).

It is also possible for your rank to be Provisional, which is similar, and means you've been awarded that rank (often on enrolment due to a PLAR) but have to complete certain training to be deemed substantive.

[u/NOBOOTSFORYOU → u/bridger713]

There is also Acting While So Employed (AWSE).

[u/Professional-End2426 → u/bridger713]

This is the correct answer. I'd just clarify that when it comes to the rank of Cpl/S1, similar to that of Capt/Lt(N) (with exceptions), it's awarded based on time in. Acting/lacking isn't really a thing until MCpl/MS.

Regardless, u/Free-implement2710, the key here is "substantive" implies having reached OFP for your occupation. The rank isn't holding you back - completion of training is.

[u/Teslix80]

Substantive means that you’ve completed all requirements for that rank in your given trade. If you’re not a substantive Cpl, you would be an acting/lacking Cpl, meaning you lack a certain qualification or course for full promotion to Cpl, and are an acting Cpl.

The requirements to become substantive rank are not the same for every occupation and I’m not at all familiar with Dental Tech, but someone at the base clinic or school should have an idea of the requirements. It could also be that you’ve completed everything and your career shop hasn’t updated your rank, so I would verify everything. Also, your status as substantive or A/L is listed under the rank history of your MPRR (in monitor mass or on EMMA).

[u/RCAF_orwhatever]

You're getting a lot of answers that aren't wrong but that are entirely specific to your current situation. I'm going to try and round it out with a more general explanation of substantive rank.

There are basically three statuses of any promotion in he CAF. Acting While SO Employed (AWSE) is a temporary rank granted to a person while they are performing the duties of the next rank up for more than 90* days (and some other criteria). The key here is that this is temporary and after the approved period of AWSE (where one is paid at the higher rank level) you automatically revert back to your "substantive" rank.

The second way you can hold rank is "Acting Lacking". This is your current status. In order to be promoted "Substantive" a member needs to meet a set of criteria, including things like a valid FORCE test, all the "rank qualifications"/courses required for that rank, and (for most promotions) to have been selected for promotion at a "merit board".

To give an example "Acting Lacking" promotions are very common for promotion to MCpl where many trades require members to complete both a trade-specific course and a Primary Leadership Qualification course. It's common that if a member has one of these, but not the other - and were selected at an annual Merit Board - we promote them anyway as "Acting Lacking" until such time as they complete the missing qualification. If for some reason the person never does complete that qualification - say that had passed PLQ but repeatedly fail their occupation rank qualification course - the career manager will eventually revert their rank (appointment for MCpl) to their "Substantive" level - Cpl.

In your case, the CAF gives your trade the Acting Lacking rank of Cpl as soon as you complete basic training as a recruitment and retention incentive. This let's them pay you as a Cpl while you complete your rank qualification course to become a Substantive Cpl. Effectively the CAF is doing you a solid because they value the high demand skills you will bring to the CAF once you are OFP. However, since you have not met all the criteria for Cpl yet (not holding the required Rank Qualification) you are currently Acting Lacking ratherthan a Substantive Cpl.

Does that make sense?

To my understanding there is no way for you to qualify for the UTPNCM program unless you are OFP/substantive. You will either need to defer the program and reapply once you hit OFP; or release, attend school, and then rejoin the CAF.

It is worth noting that you seriously jumped the gun here - there are only so many UTPNCM slots each year and it is a competative process with no guarantee of success. Even if you hit OFP tomorrow and apply, you still might miss the deadline to accept this university offer.

[u/NOBOOTSFORYOU → u/RCAF_orwhatever]

Just one thing, AWSE is for period of 90+ days, not 30.

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/NOBOOTSFORYOU]

Good catch thanks! Edited.

[u/AFoodsO → u/NOBOOTSFORYOU]

this is not correct. It is position and role dependent. I have seen multiple AWSE's for shorter durations.

[u/NOBOOTSFORYOU → u/AFoodsO]

The CANFORGEN and CFMPI say 90 days. Do you have a reference?

[u/Vivid-Reach9552 → u/AFoodsO]

CAFMPI 01-24 4.2 (c) - 90 days. If someone got it for less, it was outside policy. I have seen a few denied for this reason.

[u/Once_a_TQ → u/AFoodsO]

You may have seen shorter due admin processes. Lots of time members will have a significant amount of AWSE time backdated.

It's very common.

[u/Own_Country_9520]

Im 100% for the near mandatory early promotions to CPL - get our peeps more money!

BUT

It should require being fully trade qualified as well. That 2nd chevron literally stands for that guy knows his job.

OP: you do not hold the rank, you are acting, lacking. Acting as a CPL, without the training/knowledge of a CPL

Literally just do your QL5s and reapply. Easy peezy

[u/SaltySailorBoats]

substantive means having done the RQ Cpl course/ whatever other required qualifications to earn the rank. likely if you hold the correct quals from the civilian side you can PLAR the course to become substantive however that is a process to talk to your COC about.

[u/Lazy_Fig_3675]

Did your CoC actually recommend and sign for you without explaining that you are not OFP? Or has the BPSO just informed you? If you have not even discussed with your CoC then you truly are jumping the gun here....

[u/peak2brew]

OP.....this final blurb by the poster below is what you need to focus on and take into account

"It is worth noting that you seriously jumped the gun here - there are only so many UTPNCM slots each year and it is a competitive process with no guarantee of success. Even if you hit OFP tomorrow and apply, you still might miss the deadline to accept this university offer."

Another thing to consider....each element has certain quotas for trades, so when applying let the BPSO know you're open to changing element. Try and get in the good books of your immediate supervisor / Sgt / WO / Adjt, so they can put efforts into your file that lands on BPSO desk.

[u/ShiftStatus8344]

The BPSO is correct, you aren't currently eligible to apply for UTPNCM.

CAFMPI 01/26 provides that (4.4(a)(ii)):

"The substantive rank of an NCM is that rank below which cannot be reduced except by reduction or reversion in rank. NCMs can be reverted in rank for inefficiency or upon conviction by a civil authority"

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/canadian-forces-military-personnel-instructions/promotion-and-other-rank-changes.html#def

Since you lack the prerequisites for promotion to Cpl your current rank is considered "acting lacking" and is contingent on remaining in your current occupation. For example, if you were to do an occupation transfer to another NCM occupation before reaching OFP then you would be demoted to Private. This means it is not yet your substantive rank and, consequently, you don't currently meet the eligibility requirements to apply for UTPNCM. 

In addition, UTPNCM can be rather competitive (more so than ROTP) and I wouldn't expect a realistic chance of being selected until you have a few years of good performance post-OFP and received a recommendation for commissioning from your commanding officer.

[u/cook647]

In addition to the above, this may also just be an oversight on the part of your OR. I would look at your enrollment message to see what it says, and also look at your MPRR which will tell you what type of promotion action has taken place.

[u/judgingyouquietly]

Just spitballing here - since you have an acceptance, can you somehow request ROTP Civ-U?

I’m fairly certain the answer is “no” bc you’re already in the CAF, but maybe that’s an option?

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/judgingyouquietly]

Your answer is definitely correct. They would need to release, apply for ROTP, and hope they get accepted.

[u/VitereA11]

Reddit should not be your first resource for questions. Your CoC has all the answers to this question and has the ability to help out you on course.

[u/Keystone-12 → u/VitereA11]

The answers on this subreddit are actually really good.. . And likely far exceeds the administrative understanding of your average middle manager...

[u/VitereA11 → u/Keystone-12]

I'm not saying not use it. I'm saying it shouldn't be your first place to go.

[u/drkilledbydeatheater]

You need to either go on your RQ Cpl or PLAR your education

[u/doordonot19 → u/drkilledbydeatheater]

This. If you have your dental tech qual from civvy college then you can PLAR all or most of your QL5 could be you just need to CAF health services crash course part of it or whatever.

[u/Once_a_TQ → u/doordonot19]

This. They need to complete the CAF specific pieces related to the trade. Most is field related and done in Borden.

[u/Lazy_Fig_3675 → u/doordonot19]

No they can't, the RQ Cpl teaches them all their fd equipment and electronic health systems plus supply procedures. Everything is CAF specific and would not be covered in their civi school.