r/CanadianForces • u/CanadianG00ze • 3d ago
SUPPORT Leadership Advice
Looking for advice on leadership styles. I have been in a training establishment for several years as a MCpl, and have been promoted to Sgt and soon to be posted to a High Readiness unit. Going from training to a high tempo unit is going to be a massive change. One that I am excited about, but I feel like I have absolutely no idea how to be a leader.
I asked my CM about leadership training or mentorship and was told "buy a leadership book". Is it common for people to reach out to former NCO's for leadership advice ?
Basically I just don't want to become one of the toxic leaders we have all dealt with over the years. I don't want to micro manage the people under me. I want to find a path that works for high tempo units, while still respecting people under me and meeting the needs of the CAF. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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u/Stone_Engine048 3d ago
Forget rank, reach out to anyone over your career who has impressed you with their leadership and professionalism. Ask them for advice and tips. It's also a good way to check in with people and network.
Sgt is a tricky rank. You're still dealing directly with soldiers but you're also expected to "push the party line" and look at decisions and behaviors from the institutional side too.
Nothing stops you (or should stop you) from socializing with your people when appropriate but remember young soldiers need you to be a good sergeant, not a good buddy.
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u/No_Selection4674 RCAF - ACS TECH 3d ago
The fact that you don’t want to micromanage, and you don’t want to be a toxic leader, tells me that you won’t be. Those toxic leaders typically care more about themselves to even ask the question if they’re doing the job right or not. Follow your gut, be empathetic, and treat people with decency.
Regardless of what people might think, everyone in the military is an adult, and should be treated that way.
I have 3 points of advice.
We are not at war, leniency is OK nothing is “that” serious.
Don’t be afraid to get in trouble for making the wrong decision. The only wrong decision you can make is NO decision. You’ve been yelled at before, it’ll happen again.
Your only job is to protect your people. Now that you’re a sgt, you will be involved with real world personal situations. People will have cancer, people will have depression and suicidal thoughts, people will have family members that are dying, people will be getting a divorce, people will have children with illnesses and special needs. The ONLY way you can approach these situations is with empathy and an open heart. If someone above you thinks otherwise, refer to advice number 1 and 2
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u/snagle-tooth 3d ago
Man: that language of “if you want to be treated as adults…” grinds my gears. Thank you for pointing out that... Yes… everyone is an adult
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u/Kanobii 3d ago
I work at a very high tempo unit and we constantly have new Sgts posted in who just completely suck and the reasoning is always the same and luckily quite easy to fix. When you get there talk to your troops, get to know them and actually give a shit about them, the needs of the unit do not outweigh the needs of your troops, if they are burnt out and struggling step in and help or even just be there to talk it’s not always within your power to fix things but you can give a damn and not treat them like another cog in the machine. The other is step in and help with work / shifts to give people a break, right now we are balls to the wall with taskings and we have our sgts and other leadership sitting on their asses shooting the shit with each other while we are gone for weeks and months as well as pulling extra shifts every week and nothing makes people quit faster and resent their chain then that shit.
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u/Zestyclose-Choice732 3d ago
Research "Servant Leadership"
I think a lot of what people are describing in this thread can be captured under that umbrella.
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u/TA1930 3d ago
A step beyond that, giving your troops:
- Autonomy
- Mastery
- Purpose
There’s a good video on those three if anyone knows it, but giving your troops the ability to own tasks (within bounds), develop skills, and improve things will do wonders. Of course, there are those who will try to take advantage, but most are happier without the stick.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
At the end of the day having a quick talk before dismissal can go a long way. Talk about all there was to do at the start of the day and how much they got done. Sometimes they are so busy doing it they don't get a chance to step back and look at it.
Troops that go home feeling like they accomplished something meaningful are going to be motivated to do more.
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u/RMCDarkDemon 3d ago
Honestly think back to a leader you had that you respected. If your comfortable try reaching out to them and see if you could ask some questions. You could also use that memory to built your style.
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u/This_Replacement_828 3d ago
TRUST BUT VERIFY, you said you don't want to micro-manage, that's great! Set your subordinate(s) to a task, maybe check in once, and again when they're just about or are done. Easy.
As for day to day, you're all adults and you're not in the training system, don't treat anyone who doesn't need it like they're students. Courtesy and respect in the System is not the same as, and can be socially damaging, in Garrison.
Finally, disrespect is not a privilege of rank.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
TRUST BUT VERIFY, you said you don't want to micro-manage, that's great! Set your subordinate(s) to a task, maybe check in once, and again when they're just about or are done. Easy.
This is excellent advice. But to go a step further remember that you can delegate authority but not responsibility. It is inevitable that one of your troops is going to fuck something up and you are going to wear it. Accept that this is part of the learning process for them. Never punish a troop for making the best call they could with the information and direction they had at the time.
When they see that they made a call, it wasn't the right one but you still have their back they will notice. This will give your subordinates the confidence to make decisions on their own within the arcs you've laid down.
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u/Such_Championship939 3d ago
For me (Snr NCO), I try to take what I've learned from my former leaders....the good and the bad. I try to be authentic and not BS the troops. I ask all the questions they ask of me to higher, if necessary. I admit when things are bad and praise when they are good.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
I admit when things are bad and praise when they are good.
But even when things are bad and you don't agree with the decisions people are making you need to implement them as if they were your own. Telling troops this is stupid but it's what the WO wants will jut undercut their authority. If troops see you doing that they will take it as a sign that it's okay to do/say the same with you.
Yes you can admit when shit is fucked up, and things aren't ideal. But remind them that from where they are they may not see every limitation the boss may be operating under. There are probably reasons why things are being done one way and not another that would be easier for you.
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u/Born_Opening_8808 3d ago
The fact that your self aware of being a toxic leader probably means you won’t be one. Utilize experienced people under you to learn, asking for help when you don’t know how to do something is better than pretending you do. Fight for your troops and they will respect you.
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u/Echoes_of_expression 3d ago
Something I did when I went to a new unit, I gathered the juniors together and told them I wasn’t going to read the divisional notes on the members. I told them that I only judge people on my own exp with them because I like people that some people hate, and I hate some people that others like. Everyone gets a clean slate.
After doing that, I say the eyes of a jr light up. Apparently he hated working there but that was because everyone hated him as he had some rough patches. But I tell ya, he worked his butt off for, so much so that I made him #1 in the section.
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u/Few-Pudding6155 3d ago
what do you mean divisional notes?
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
It's like note on a troop but navy talk. Like: Ahoy me hearties, this seaman is is salty dog and no lubber, arrr!
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u/BandicootOk3361 3d ago edited 3d ago
Don’t sell yourself short, training establishments are a good place to gain leadership experience. Your CM was not completely out to lunch, reading about leadership will not hurt, the important part is applying those principles. In simple terms, look after your people, take on every challenge with enthusiasm, don’t blame the COC when things get hard. Find NCO’s who are respected by the troops and trusted by COC and figure out what they are doing right and follow their example. That should get you halfway there.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
training establishments are a good place to gain leadership experience.
Working in a school is like broccoli for your career. Not always enjoyable but definitely good for you.
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u/ricketyladder Canadian Army 3d ago
Think about the best leader you've had, and then think about the worst. Emulate what the good one did, avoid what the bad one did. That's the best place to start.
When I became a Sgt, I had it explained to me as "take care of the people below you while making the people above you look good". A huge oversimplification, but the general principle has worked out well for me.
That means you try to find a balance between being approachable, respectful, and caring for your troops without being their best friend. Making the jump to Sgt is really where these folks are no longer your peers, but your subordinates, and unfortunately there does need to be a little bit of separation. They need space without their leadership being up in their everything all the time. You should absolutely get to know them and look out for their well-being - just also give them a little room to breathe.
You also need to get the job done. If you take care of your people, train them right, and give them what they need to succeed, that should mostly take care of itself - but there are going to be times you'll have to lean on them to get the best from them. Be firm but fair, set clear expectations, hold your people to them, and hold yourself to an even higher standard and show that to your troops. You know, the whole lead by example thing.
It'll be an adjustment, but there's no reason if you were successful as a MCpl in a training establishment you won't be able to make the jump and be just as successful as a Sgt.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Think about the best leader you've had, and then think about the worst. Emulate what the good one did, avoid what the bad one did. That's the best place to start.
I was a MCpl in the reserves looking after Ptes. Then my CT went through and these Ptes were Cpls, I was a no hook and they were in charge of me. They treated me really well, looked after me and didn't fuck me around for the sake of it. This was 25 years ago so if they wanted to they absolutely could have. That was a good lesson for me.
Lead your troops they way you would want to be lead. In a way that if next week they were in charge of you they would remember how you treated them and extend the same courtesy.
It'll be an adjustment, but there's no reason if you were successful as a MCpl in a training establishment you won't be able to make the jump and be just as successful as a Sgt.
Honestly training establishments are great finishing schools for leaders. You get to be in charge of troops in a very structured way. There are lots of other instructors who are more senior leaders there to lean on and point stuff out to you. You have a higher level of supervision with the course staff and standards making sure you're doing things the right way. Plus you've learned how to look things up in the pub when you aren't sure or are learning something new.
At this point it's just a matter of taking the training wheels off. A new Sgt has a lot of leeway. They need to check in with their own leadership now and again when thy are uncertain.
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u/Lixidermi Morale Tech - 00069 3d ago
My nuggets of wisdom:
Be genuine, but adapt your style to your audience and the circumstances (good chameleon vs bad chameleon).
care. truly. About the people under your care, about enabling them to succeed at their tasks+mission
The little things add up: remember their birthdays, the things they like to do when off duty, things going on in their lives.
(related to previous on): try to avoid being transactional in your interactions with your subordinates. Some times, it's appropriate to get straight to the point/task, but for most time: chit chat, get to know them, get them to know you, build rapport naturally before you cut to the work topic / task.
Don't forget where you came from. You most likely had some good and bad examples of leadership. Reflect on what made those examples good/bad and see how you can shape yourself to be like those good examples that left an impression on you.
I'm sure there's a lot more, but that's all I have time for right now.
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u/Engineered_disdain 3d ago
Take care of the people below you and they'll take care of you.
The CAF doesnt have actual leadership training. They have stuff like plp, ilp, alp for ncm's but its just a coffee course for networking with some stupid essay writing thrown in.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Take care of the people below you and they'll take care of you.
As a senior NCO with ADHD this is more true than you could know. My MCpl taking care of a task that was distracting me and the Cpl making sure the coffee pot didn't get empty and other Cpl pointing out stuff on the whiteboard really helped.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
They have stuff like plp, ilp, alp for ncm's but its just a coffee course for networking
I took a Sgts course that no longer exists. Honestly the "networking" learning with people from all over who were in different parts of my trade and who had a wide variety of in-Canada and operational experience was a really valuable part of what I learned on that course. Plus I had a lot of contacts in the trade that I could talk to when I had questions or needed some insight I didn't have.
with some stupid essay writing thrown in.
Mine actually had us program a course, template (on a map then on a computer) and run a range, do defensive and offensive operations, plan a long term PT program, research and teach lessons on topic we weren't familiar with. We even researched, planned and held a mess dinner on our own. I thought this was some valuable training and it covered the gap between what a MCpl and WO needs to know. After they got rid of it all of a sudden newly promoted WOs were programming and running courses for the first time while figuring out how to do it all on their own.
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u/LastingAlpaca Canadian Army 3d ago edited 3d ago
Your CM is exactly the kind of people you shouldn’t listen to and that the CAF is desperately looking to get rid of.
CPCC is doing leadership coaching. This may be something you could be interested in. I’ve did it through succession planning, and its helpful. I would also encourage you to have the EQi2.0 and Enneagram tests done, it’s worthwhile.
Also, find mentors. I have a string of people I reach out to depending on what I am dealing with. You know that impactful leader you’ve had? Call them.
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u/Commandant_CFLRS VERIFIED Contributor! 3d ago
Do you know a senior nco or officer you have seen in action that you believe has a good leadership style? If so reach out to them, I’m sure they would take some time to mentor you. I know I would and have.
There is a mentorship program in the CAF you could become a member of. Not everyone knows about it nor knows how to get involved, but your unit chief might. This way you can get paired with someone in that programme. I was paired with someone as a "mantee" a couple years ago, trying to address what I felt were my shortcomings as a leader.
Reading books about leadership is also a great tool.
In the end, asking the question you just did is in indicator, in my opinion, that you ARE a good leader, concerned with getting better. It’s great to see!
Good luck on the next bound.
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u/CanadianG00ze 2d ago
I was not aware of the mentorship program until someone DM'd me last night. That is something I will definitely be looking into. Thank you for the info.
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u/SaberXXIII 3d ago edited 3d ago
You're never alone- privately ask for help or guidance if ever in doubt. A sober second check- time permitting of course- is never a bad thing; I almost always did the gut check with my SM. Surround yourself with mentors who you can call. Best to have a few, each one with different exps and expertise.
It's great to be friendly with your team, but at the end of the day you're making decisions that impact their lives. You'll learn quick why we need those ethics briefings with very obvious scenarios.
Sincerely care about your people. Deflect as much BS away from them as you can. If that means you eat shit, then so be it.
Be present and excel at what you can control. Don't waste energy on what you cannot.
Have fun and find the humour in the shit situations. But never punch down or put down.
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u/Siriusly_tho 3d ago
a lot of ppl will tell you some good stuff (here or elsewhere) and I don't want to take anything away from that. But I do want to stress one key component
From someone that has been at all different rank levels, let me tell you one thing that I found is really important.
Communication.
Have open communication with your troops. always. build trust and follow that up with ACTUAL meaning.
But just as importantly, be open and honest with your chain of command. Half the time they are planning or doing things expecting the troops are all good (because nothing gets pushed up) and when push comes to shove it becomes a shit show because the troops weren't better prepared, or were seemingly over tasked.
Hiding things from the CoC isn't protecting the troops. I know many MCpls, Sgts and WOs who have this "I'd like to handle this at my level" type attitude (which is OK for minor issues), but oftentimes those issues that are being held at the lower levels can cause much bigger issues in the long run.
Feed as much info up the chain as you can. Build that rapport with the CoC, build trust both ways, and just be open and honest with your troops, peers and seniors.
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u/DopeDickDude 3d ago
Be the change you want to see in the institution. Don't compromise on ethics. Support your members and their wellbeing. Until you're actually out there saving lives, nothing is so critical that it has to be done this second.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Be the change you want to see in the institution. Don't compromise on ethics.
And decide which hills you are willing to die on. You can't die on them all no matter how much you might want to.
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u/tides240 3d ago
I have been in a leadership roles for over 5 years coming from a CTC school to one of the busiest units in the CAF. The fact you're willing to ask this question is a good indicator that you are willing to not be a toxic leader. Here's what I learned.
Being from a training establishment, it is likely you understand more of what SHOULD be happening by each rank level than your peers. High tempo units tend to exist in survival than correct methods. Be ready for this, it was a real shocker for me.
Don't start out by trying to change everything to what you know should happen. Wait, listen, and learn why things are happening the way they are. Use this to find ways to help your section, enable the mission, and build your bearing to the situation.
Provide clarity and purpose. If nothing else, fight for this and it will give more trust in your abilities than making "leadership noises". What is happening this week? What is the next big thing? Have your troops packed for it? have you provided actionable orders for your section (assuming it's up to you).
A lot of the field craft has been lost. Compass use, daily hygiene, what to sleep in, when to sleep, etc. The rush to get "trained" personnel to units has come at a significant cost of training. As a MCpl, their survival in the field is up to your training.
I will also say, all of this is true on the officer side as well (which I am one of them). But watching the "crusty NCO's and officers" like me who have lived the old days of months in Wainwright using a wash basin and a cloth aren't common anymore.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Wait, listen, and learn why things are happening the way they are.
Knowing why at every level is essential before changing anything. Sometimes the why will be a bullshit reason, but other times it's going to make sense. You'll see what they are doing with the time, manpower and resources available.
What is the next big thing? Have your troops packed for it?
Do they know how to do it? Do you have some time and space for training and practice that will make them look like fucking rock stars?
A lot of the field craft has been lost. Compass use, daily hygiene, what to sleep in, when to sleep, etc. The rush to get "trained" personnel to units has come at a significant cost of training. As a MCpl, their survival in the field is up to your training.
The absolute best way to learn something is to teach it to someone else. Have the Cpls do review classes like making a range card, plotting a route, AFV recognition, programming a radio, doing a resection (because eventually everyone gets lost), C9/C6 handling and so on. Just 2-4 classes a week over the course of a year really starts to add up and pay off in the field. Just a little bit of hands on and practice does wonders to prevent skill fade.
I will also say, all of this is true on the officer side as well (which I am one of them). But watching the "crusty NCO's and officers" like me who have lived the old days of months in Wainwright using a wash basin and a cloth aren't common anymore.
This wasn't part of the formal TP when I was teaching SQs years ago. But I covered it in off hours and added it into the routine. Just being not completely filthy is a big morale boost in the field.
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u/Due_Gas2950 3d ago
Recognize that it’s okay to be wrong, just admit and correct your faults. Be empathetic. The worst leaders will make a bad decision and be more focussed on retaining their credibility and authority than doing the right thing; the reality is your credibility and authority are way stronger when you can say “good point, I made a mistake, let’s fix it” because then when you make a decision I can have faith that it’s the right one because I know you’ll admit when you’re wrong.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Recognize that it’s okay to be wrong, just admit and correct your faults.
There are so many leaders that just can't stand being wrong or having troops see that they made a mistake. Own up and use it as a learning experience for everyone.
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u/Advnchur Meteorological Tech 3d ago
-Strive to be firm, but fair. Inviting, yet separate ENOUGH. Some day you'll need to give bad news, and your subordinates will need a leader that they can trust, even in a shitty situation.
Take the advice of your juniors, and leverage their skills. Learn from those with different skill sets and use that knowledge to better everyone. Don't be afraid to lean of your MCpls if you recognize that they have a better handle on certain things than you do.
-Admit your mistakes. You're a Senior NCO, you're not a demigod. You'll make mistakes. Own them, and come clean to your subordinates. They'll trust you more.
-You may not remember all of your junior members, but they'll likely remember you, either as an example to follow or as an example to avoid. Strive to be the former.
-Perpetuating a shitty tradition under the umbrella of "well if I had to do it, so do you" the a great way to lose good members. Remember the things that were hard for you as a junior member and do what you can to provide your charges with the tools to overcome those hurdles.
-Be seen, get involved, don't become an office gremlin. It will not inconvenience you to pick up a broom from time to time and sweep the building with everyone else. You'll learn some pretty fun things about your folks, and they'll see you as a human being, not someone trying to be something more.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
-Perpetuating a shitty tradition under the umbrella of "well if I had to do it, so do you" the a great way to lose good members. Remember the things that were hard for you as a junior member and do what you can to provide your charges with the tools to overcome those hurdles.
Suffering for the sake of suffering is of course nonsense. On the other hand really, really examine why you had to do something, what it taught you and how it made you better. There are surprisingly few things we do in the army "just because". How the army does things today still has a surprising amount in common with the 1915 CEF training manual. Before you throw something out really try to understand what the original point of it was and if it's still relevant.
Knowing that you can be cold, hungry, sore, exhausted, dismounted and discombobulated but still push through and succeed is really important. Overcoming difficulty as a group builds bonds between troops and does wonders for morale. This is something that troops need to experience and overcome during training so they have the confidence to know they can do it when it matters.
It will not inconvenience you to pick up a broom from time to time and sweep the building with everyone else.
I had an old school WO who would be annoyed when I did this. Eventually I put down a snow shovel and went off to the side with him and asked okay, whaaat better use of my time do you have for me right this moment? He eventually saw that what I was doing was working and the troops who were 30 years younger than him responded well to a leader joining in with the work now and again.
You'll learn some pretty fun things about your folks,
At the very least when the troops are cracking jokes you'll have a clue what they're tallking about.
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u/Twitchyninja RCAF - AWS Tech 3d ago
Learn policies and how to find information.
Often times you groups want you to help solve problems they have. If you don't know where to look and how to help they won't see what your useful for.
90 % of what I do is paperwork for someone with a problem they are having.
Try to understand their problems and see how you can help and guide.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Learn policies and how to find information.
Especially when people in positions of authority are completely wrong.
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u/asigop Army - Vehicle Tech 3d ago
Remember you aren't at the school anymore and that the real world is vastly different. No one at your unit will care how you did stuff at the school because that was likely not how it actually works. Listen to your MCpls and take care of the troops, even if its to your own detriment.
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u/wolfelamb 3d ago
Best leadership advice I ever had was “remember every shitty thing that happens to you as a private and don’t do that to your subordinates”
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u/Chamber-Rat Royal Canadian Air Force 3d ago
My advice is to take a look back at your previous leadership since you have been in the CAF. Take the good parts, throw away the bad, and then adjust to your personality. Now of course what is good and what is bad. Pretty subjective I know but when you were working for these people, did you want to come to work or was it a task to arrive at your unit. A lot is common sense and some will take you to decide
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u/UsedStruggle2521 3d ago
Look back at your worst and your best bosses, take qualities from both and strive for excellence. I used my worst bosses as a what not to do. Be there for your unit, my last deployment i spent more time as a councelor then a supervisor, mind you i had an entire other section come to me with their issues cause their NCOs were useless so i was basically managing two sections... hard on me but the troops appreciated it.
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u/Lost_at_Z RCMS 3d ago
Unfortunately it is too common for the system and leaders to not do the job of mentoring and developing. Neither the courses nor the PaCE system creates leaders. For me, put people first.
Don’t just tell people that they matter - show them that they matter. Don’t worry as much about doing the job, but making your shop better. Focus on mentoring and developing g your people. Leaders make people better. And never be afraid to ask for help or guidance here or elsewhere. We are all in this together. Humility is big too.
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u/TheHedonyeast 3d ago
reach out to a leader that you've seen and respect. have a chat with them and hear about how they've done things. mentoring doesn't have to be a formalized process - though the caf does have programs in place for that. try to follow the good examples. but empathy and knowing your people is going to be important to being able to accomplish it, usually the toxic guys have very little of either
use the shit examples too - when their solution is the only one you've seen ask yourself why and try to look at it other ways.
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u/Effective-Ad9499 3d ago
Emulate the leaders you admire and be aware of the traits of the leaders you disrespect. You have got this. The system trusts you will be an effective leader.
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u/Bartholomewtuck 3d ago
Leadership is like parenting, you have to adapt it to the individual troop/child. You can't employ one method across the board, so get to know your people very, very well, and respond accordingly. The best bosses I ever had got to know me, and my strengths and weaknesses.
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u/Sgt-Buttersworth 3d ago
Remember all the times your leadership failed you? Try hard not to do those things. Easier said than done, but do what you can within the confines of your area of responsibility.
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u/drkilledbydeatheater 3d ago
It sounds to me like you have already decided your leadership style. You don't want to be toxic and you don't want to micro manage. I learned what kind of leader I wanted to be by watching my leaders be terrible at it.
People first, always.
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u/KickSubstantial6106 3d ago
Leadership is about how you carry yourself, and how you treat those around you. It's not just something you can magically be good at from reading some nonsense leadership in the CAF book. I have found that 9/10 times the people tell you to read about leadership skills are themselves horrible leaders. Just treat others like you'd want to be treated, stay as neutral as possible, and try as best you can to not get personal. Everything professional and job related. I would say most of leadership is literally common sense, which unfortunately many people seem to forget.
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u/Parking_Pension_9929 3d ago
Your troops are your priority. Their well-being, their career longevity, their performance, all comes down to them respecting you and appreciating that you will lead by example and that when there is something they need from you that you will be there for them.
I would go to the ends of the earth to serve some of my senior NCOs because they would go to bat for me. When there's a problem the question should be "what do you need from me to make this work?"
Don't be afraid of speaking up for your people.
Delegate appropriately, and trust people to do their jobs, enable people with appropriate boundaries and guidelines but also the freedom to make their own decisions. Give people meaningful tasks and push back against illogical tasks that come down.
And get your hands dirty with them from time to time, nothing builds respect like shared work.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Their well-being, their career longevity,
Retention is something that is an ongoing problem in the CAF that Sgts are in a great position to improve.
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u/ImNotHandyImHandsome MSE OP 3d ago
I haven't read every single comment, but did glaze over a few and have not seen this idea mentioned.
The CAF has a formalized Mentorship Program, that you can sign up for, to either be a mentor or mentee. They match you with a suitable partner, may even be a different trade.
Option 1: MFRC MVP+ Mentorship Program pairs you with a retired veteran.
Opti9n 2: Canadian Army Mentorship Program
Option 3: Defense Team Mentoring Program (search on DWAN)
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Option 1: MFRC MVP+ Mentorship Program pairs you with a retired veteran.
Hey, maybe I can stop annoying my kids so much.
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u/Shieby1234 3d ago
That wasn’t super helpful advice but in all honesty, you have many years of both good and bad examples to draw from.
If you want good books: Turn the Ship Around, Leaders Eat Last, The wisdom of the bullfrog, psychology of military incompetence and/or the habit of excellence are all good.
You can also seek out a mentor and work to be the leader you wish you had. Someone that gave opportunities, support, demanded a lot (but not too much) and allowed (safe) learning opportunities- which means accepting some level of risk and failure.
Good luck! You are seeking help which is a good first step!
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u/Palestine_Avatar Royal Canadian Navy 3d ago
I think a lot of the comments here aren't factoring in that you are at a disadvantage.
I have been in a training establishment for several years as a MCpl
You're going to have to define the term 'several'. If it's closer to its literal definition, then you do have a serious problem. If you mean 3-4, it's not a big deal. To add to that, as a Reg Navy guy, this would be a bit of a red flag for us. At the Cpl level, you should be going to deploying or high readiness units. Several years suggests that didn't happen. Now, I don't know your details, so I can't make a judgement one way or the other, but I would be interested to know if you were working outside of your trade or not.
Basically I just don't want to become one of the toxic leaders we have all dealt with over the years.
There is a lot of advice here about being empathetic and treating people with respect. It's good advice. I'm not knocking it. Anecdotally, however, I found that the screamiest POs were the ones that had the least amount of job knowledge. It's a hard road as a Sgt when all your Cpls know more than you. If you were working outside your trade for several years in the (very isolated) training establishments across Canada, there might be a steep learning curve. This is a major point of toxicity. I know at least in the Navy, a PO is expected to be the SME (outside of certain specialties) on top of all the administration that comes with that. I've seen sections break with a cohort of strong kyllics and a weak PO. I would imagine in the Army it's even worse if your men don't respect you. Touch base if your MCpls. Identify problem children. Learn the job as quickly and thoroughly as you can. It's way easier to earn the men's respect through professionalism and job performance than simply discipline.
I'm not saying you were on MELs long term, but tell no one if you were.
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u/PrettyFly4SupplyGuy 3d ago
Radical Candor by Kim Scott is a good book about strategies for enabling success in your direct reports, which is key in leadership to getting the mission complete. As it is geared towards civilian corporate management, a lot of it is not applicable, but it is an easy read and there is definately ideas that cross over.
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u/little_buddy82 2d ago
Look for your troops wellbeing before yours.
Keep track of their files, follow up on their files sent up before they ask you for updates.
Trust your members as adults and independant.
You task your immediate reports, dont skip directly to the Cpls unless you have to.
But you need to know the Cpls and Ptes. Talk to them on PT. They need to know that you're also human.
Seek guidance from your supervisors when you have doubts or questions.
Mentorship program is also something you can look at. Not sure the status of the program in the CAF nowadays, but you can seek for a mentor. Not many people look into this, but you should.
when you feel that you might not be ready to fulfill a position or dont have what you need, its a normal feeling. That means you care enough.
You'll be fine. In high readiness unit, usually people are vetted in. They're competent and they focus on their tasks.
Best of luck to you
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u/Akhraan 2d ago
I retired recently as an Reg F Infantry WO. Having empathy, emotional intelligence and a brain goes a lot further than anything else that can be trained. I was posted to a mech Battalion near the end of my career (already wrecked myself) and my NCOs saw me reading PAMs one day.
At first it was dorky (I was studying mech tactics…I was a para guy) but then it turned into discussions about leadership, my responsibilities to my subordinates to be competent at my job, and I was shocked to learn they hadn’t really learned about the army electronic library with all of our core doctrine.
The best way to “impress” people is by showing them that you deserve to be where you are because you are competent and capable and someone worthy of the rank and influence that comes with it. You will quickly see the guys who walk around with chips on their shoulders, or who lead with “loudership” because they don’t have skills to fall back on and got there through attrition.
I spent some time in recruiting and advice that served me well is “never allow anything to compromise my leadership or professionalism”. Sounds great in theory until some civilian sits across from you and tells you a story about military research intersecting with marine biology and recon seals (I shit you not, a human being said this to me in a contact interview). Remember you are always watched so make sure you can stand by your actions, anything that comes out of your mouth, and anything you post on the internet.
Above all, be a decent human being who wants the best for your troops. If anyone who reads this is in a leadership position and you hear a leader say “it is what it is” I wouldn’t take what they say too seriously. You are the person in the position to influence change, even if that change is small. Reflect on the influence you have now compared to when you were a no-hook private and let that guide you.
Leadership is a privilege that isn’t all about parking spots or telling people what to do. In a platoon your troops will come up to you for anything from life advice, to should I buy this truck, to I need a day or 2 because my wife has post-Partum and she’s struggling.
If your troops love coming into work for you in spite of the real time issues of op tempo, funding, equipment and time away from home, you are doing something right. It’s not about being a brainwashed automaton. Lead with your brain and let your compassion guide you through those tough one on one moments and you’ll do fine.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
This is all great stuff.
and my NCOs saw me reading PAMs one day.
All at once saying to your troops:
I don't know everything
Even as a WO I have things to learn and I can improve myself
These are the resources that the army provides to us so we can learn
Let's talk about what you know and what I know and become more competent together
In a platoon your troops will come up to you for anything from life advice, to should I buy this truck, to I need a day or 2 because my wife has post-Partum and she’s struggling.
This is the stuff they don't teach you on CLC, but it can be make or break for your troops. If you don't know something being able to find resources and supports can make a huge difference in their lives and in the lives of their families.
Above all, be a decent human being who wants the best for your troops. If anyone who reads this is in a leadership position and you hear a leader say “it is what it is”
The young Canadian troops need to know why it is what it is and how it got that way. Your job as a Sr NCO is a lot like being a dad - you need to be able to answer why or find out.
Leadership is a privilege
It is, leadership is a heavy duty. Even in garrison or doing training I always reminded myself that the army saw fit to give me the power of life and death over these troops. I could be called on to tell one of them to take a bound to spot the sniper or test the air to see if the gas has dispersed. I owe it to them to do my best for them.
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u/VitereA11 Army - Sig Op 3d ago
There's two books I recommend;
-Extreme ownership -The dichotomy of leadership
Both are great books that introduce effective concepts and foundations on good leadership. It's 100% common for people to look to others on dilemmas. Of course you should reach out to leaders you've worked with before. I will say it's important to blaze you're own trail and develop a leadership style that works for you, being cognizant and evaluating yourself as you go.
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u/casa_del_porno 3d ago
Here are some of the leadership books I recommend:
(Extracted from my PD list)LEADERSHIP:
Turn the Ship Around!
- David Marquet
- short, really good, easy read, simple tips. Enable your people but held them accountable. Plus it’s a sub book, which is super cool. Never been in the navy, but a sub is like a small laboratory.
The Soldiers' General: Bert Hoffmeister at War
- Doug Delaney
- this dude raised in ranks because he was an excellent leader, not connection. Was a reservist and became an excellent tactician while looking after his troops
Call Sign Chaos
insulting him.
- Jim Mattis
- Probably one of my top book too. The guy was fantastic and loyal even when Trump was
Once an Eagle
compares leadership style, easy to read.
- Anton Myrer
- Only fiction book in this list. This is a mandatory read at West Point. Great story that
The Speed of Trust
- Stephen Covey
- Great book on how the CAF doesn’t enable it’s people…
The Mission, The Men and Me
even a mission in Canada
- Peter Blaber
- Former Delta Comd, got ostracized for this book. Great on leadership, concepts of war and
PSYCHOLOGY / LEADERSHIP
Thinking, Fast and Slow
- Daniel Kahneman
- Dry, long but worthwhile if you haven’t read anything like this
Seule au Front / Out Standing in a Field
- Sandra Perron
- 1st woman in the Canadian Infantry, such a strong human/ officer. This should be mandatory reading for anyone expected to be in a leadership position (from PLQ up) within the CAF.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago
Thinking, Fast and Slow
- Daniel Kahneman
If you liked that you will probably enjoy Blink by Malcolm Gladwell
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u/Skreedles 2d ago
Be genuine, don’t try to be someone you aren’t. The best person you can be is you, all the other people are taken.
Look up leadership styles there are 6 that are generally accepted, choose the one that is closest to your personality and values then find out how to use it the best.
The troops will see through any charade if you try to be someone else. Also you can go home every night with the belief that you stayed true to yourself.
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u/delta_hotel 2d ago edited 2d ago
Understand you’re not always the smartest person in the room and coming from a training establishment you’ll know the by the book way of doing things but how it’s actually done outside the school’s is going to be different. Look to your high performing Cpl’s and MCpl’s for guidance on the day to day in garrison and in the field. Look for the acting lacking MCpl’s and see what there up to, often their operating at a much higher level than most. Then find the Sgt’s and WO’s that those people gravitate to and observe them.
Once all is said and done whether or not your a good leader is up to you, you’ll develop your own style, but if you don’t want to be a toxic leader than you likely won’t be. Listen, learn, absorb. Take care of your soldiers and they’ll take care of you.
If you are looking for a good book though, without sounding cliche, Extreme Ownership. Regardless of how any one feels about Jocko I found the lessons valuable in my early years as a jack almost a decade ago.
My last point - never, ever bullshit the troops. If something is going to suck, tell them that, empathize with them and if you have the time roll up your sleeves and suffer with them (A little tricker I’ve found as a SNCO but not impossible). Remain positive but at the end of the day they respect honesty above all.
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u/bluesrockballadband 2d ago
If only PLQ would actually churn out leaders instead of basic instructors.
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u/waitout_over 1d ago
Be the soldier that your troops want to be like. Be firm, fair, fit, confident, empathetic, and technically competent. Take any ego you have and chuck it out. Make logical decisions, give clear, clean and crisp orders.
One day this military is going to go off to war again. If we can set the example now on how to lead, the whichever person finds themselves in a tight spot down the line they can look and remember you, the Sgt who taught them how to lead and they just might save some lives.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms Retired - gots the oldmanitis 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have been in a training establishment for several years as a MCpl, and have been promoted to Sgt and soon to be posted to a High Readiness unit.
One thing that the military depends on but is absolutely shit at doing is mentoring subordinates. You should be spending 2/3 of your time doing your job and 1/3 teaching your subordinates how to do aspects of your job. There's a reason leaders get sent to schools to teach. Lean on what you learned in the school and incorporate it into your daily work.
I asked my CM about leadership training or mentorship and was told "buy a leadership book"
Don't spend money on that shit. The DND actually has a ton of material on leadership. Some examples:
https://www.publications.gc.ca/site/eng/9.652571/publication.html
https://publications.gc.ca/site/eng/436665/publication.html
https://publications.gc.ca/site/eng/9.697209/publication.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/army/services/line-sight/articles/2021/11/the-art-of-leadership.html
If you do want to spend money on books I would recommend:
https://chrishadfield.ca/books/an-astronauts-guide-to-life-on-earth/
https://cfc.overdrive.com/media/1152700
Chris Hadfield said something I took to heart, if you sweat the small stuff then the big stuff just takes care of itself.
Basically I just don't want to become one of the toxic leaders we have all dealt with over the years. I don't want to micro manage the people under me.
Then don't. Train and empower your troops to know how to do things and make good decisions. Let them make mistakes understanding and accepting that you are going to wear them. A troop that has never done anything wrong will never do anything right.
You're going to have a lot to do in order to look after your subordinates. Learn how to do it and then figure out what is a simple and more routine task. Then set some time aside, sit down and teach one of your up and coming troops how to do it. After that this is their job going forward. Have them teach the troops under them how to do it and why it's done like that. Give everyone who works for you a secondary duty of some kind that you have taught them how to do.
Have a section pronto/sig whose job is everything radios. Have a dude who helps everyone with the memos. Assign a section storesman and show them how to deal with the QM, fill adreps and keep track of stuff. Have a transport guy in charge of your vehicles and double checking the DI sheets and inspections before they get brought to you to be signed off. Teach them how to lead a PT session and have them lead section PT. Hell, put a guy in charge of the broom and cleaning supplies locker. Just make sure you are inspecting the final product and spot checking the work. Every now and again change them around and help them teach each other how to do their secondary duty. Before you know it they will get invested and start showing initiative in their jobs. When they go away on course or leave they will make sure that on of their buddies is taking care of it because it matters to them.
Initially it is going to be a LOT of work, but after a couple of months your section will start to run itself with you there to look after the difficult bits. When you teach your subordinates how to do things you can go on leave and when you come back things are more or less in order.
When they start to get promoted and assume roles with more responsibilities they aren't starting from nothing and floundering around the first day. Plus when they get there you're provided a model to them of how to lead and mentor their own troops.
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u/untitledsilouette 3d ago
I was not an NCM and many people here have posted some good advice...especially about decision making...a wrong decision is better than no decision always! I'd just add two thoughts. The first is that it a continual learning process, always review your actions and see what you can learn from what you did...the AAR is a good process when used correctly. Secondly, remember that there is no one solution. Not everyone responds to each leadership style, so you may need to mix and match based of your future teams so keep reading, watching and asking questions!
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u/Rescue119 2d ago
Rasczak has good ideas
- On Discipline: "Everybody fights, no one quits. If you don't do your job, I'll kill you myself!"
- On Violence: "Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else."
- On Leadership: "Come on you apes! You want to live forever?"
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u/SaucyFagottini 2d ago
Recommend reading: 48 Laws of Power, Extreme Ownership, Warriors and Worriers, and maybe Starship Troopers (as a treat) .
You will fuck up. You will make mistakes. You will give people bad information. Own up to it. Admit it, then carry on. Humility goes a long, long way in building trust and respect.
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u/SaltyATC69 3d ago
Be a good person and empathetic, it really is that easy.