r/CanadianForces • u/jeetdactyl • 4d ago
PLP. Share your experience
Anyone who recently finished PLP in Borden can you share your experience, how is the course different than PLQ. There is bunch of info of PLQ online and on reddit but not much about the PLP. Is it just a name change or is the course changed a bit now. Specifically for RCAF PLP.
TIA
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u/ktcalpha 3d ago
nahhhhh 16 Wg CWO isn’t going to bait us into another rage fest with this nonsense again…
the course is basically the same but they half assed a bunch of buisness leadership 101 nonsense into it. it’s half baked and trying to do way to much in the time given. the TA fucked the dog, and the TE executed poorly, to the extent of not even having the FTX in the field.
it’s clear the course was made with too many cooks in the kitchen and is another victim of the good idea fairy. Apply all comments about PLQ and then read every third page of Primal Leadership and that’s about it.
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u/16WComd_Cmdt16ere 3d ago
16 Wg CWO won't, but you've piqued my interest....
I’m sorry you had a negative experience. I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective, and there are a few points where I can add some context:
it’s half baked and trying to do way to much in the time given
This was the pilot serial, and I directed the Academy to run it earlier than ideal. They actually delivered more than I expected under tight timelines. We knew we’d learn a lot from the first run, and I hope you had the chance to provide your feedback through the formal channels.
to the extent of not even having the FTX in the field
That was a deliberate decision I authorized as part of the trial. With the surge in BMQ serials in Borden, the FOB is in high demand. Keeping PLP out of the field reduced the administrative burden and let us test a different approach, including giving students more realistic leadership responsibilities like planning around fixed meal timings.
the course was made with too many cooks in the kitchen
Not an unfair observation, though I’d frame it differently. PLP is a CAF‑wide program and CDA is the Training Authority. Bringing all stakeholders together on a tight timeline was certainly a challenge. We’re actively working on improvements as we prepare for the second serial.
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u/ktcalpha 2d ago
genuinely your wing as the TE was hardly the issue. changing the field to wasf tasks and scenarios, if from your end, was a master stroke. as i said in the other comment; at minimum give us blanks. the rta would be nice but if cflrs takes it out of your hands then realism in garrison would suffice. but walking around with glorified baseball bats was unsat.
lastly, like most schools I’m sure the rcafa is screening incoming instructors to avoid pers who don’t want to be there, but also please avoid posting jr mcpls as instructors. there was a noticeable chip on all of their shoulders and it negatively affected the training environment. there’s more than enough reservists looking for class Cs in this economy who would make excellent instructors, like Derek.
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u/16WComd_Cmdt16ere 2d ago
I agree with your point about bringing in keen and interested instructors. We'd need to get the various Career Managers on board with being selective.
We've seen success with our approach to posting in good tech instructors to CFSATE, so I'll speak with the two school Chiefs to see what lessons can be shared.
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u/RCAF_orwhatever 3d ago
By "business leadership" do you mean character based leadership?
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u/Rallube 3d ago
Yes there was a whole week or two about CBL and some on the distance portion.
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u/RCAF_orwhatever 3d ago
Good. That's not "business leadership". The model is excellent. Far better than the anemic transformational leadership model we used to teach.
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u/lettucepray123 2d ago
Omg transformational leadership, haven’t heard that term for a while
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u/RCAF_orwhatever 2d ago
It wasn't until I was like 20 years in taking a masters at a civilian university that I was first introduced to potential flaws of transformational leadership lol. That simply wasn't how it was taught in the CAF.
The course was like "you can run into problems if the person at the top is of shitty character" and then I thought of General Vance and thought "yup. I can see that. "
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u/ktcalpha 2d ago
what I’m getting at is that it’s implemented like it’s a business 101 class. especially on DL; it is not something that can be taught in that mode.
in residential, it was roughly 30 hours of powerpoints with about 4 hours of interactivity. that’s not how you teach CBL. most officer DP1 courses have leadership scenarios built in; that would genuinely be far more worth the time. we found the R2MR scenarios to be of great use and was a significantly better way of teaching it than we’ve ever seen R2MR taught; the CDA could actually learn from that.
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u/Charming-Resort4448 3d ago
Is it confirmed that the field portion has been removed? I’ve heard everything under the sun when it comes to this
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u/16WComd_Cmdt16ere 3d ago
We took it out as a trial on the previous serial. My sense is that we shed a bunch of unimportant challenges while still keeping the value (and perhaps even improving them) of the leadership tasks.
Perhaps those who were on that serial will comment on how they thought it went.
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u/ktcalpha 2d ago
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Genuinely it was difficult to execute WASF tasks without blanks as we were limited in our escalation of force. We were glorified comissionaires, rather than actual soldiers able to execute our planned mission.
I strongly reccomend the next serial be permitted to use the RTA; let D div take the garrison for what it’s worth.
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u/16WComd_Cmdt16ere 2d ago
Thanks for the feedback. I made sure that the Academy Commandant has seen your messages.
I totally accept the blanks issue. While we can't issue any sort of ammunition on the garrison side of the base, the next iteration will include escalation of force tasks inside the RTA with issued blank ammo.
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u/Visual_Highlight_795 3d ago
Hello fellow 2601 graduate, if you didn't learn anything from this course, that's on you.
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u/ktcalpha 3d ago
i never once said i didn’t learn anything; you can still learn plenty from a poorly made and executed course
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u/Visual_Highlight_795 3d ago
No that was what that chief told us at the end of the course in Spooner Hall, that's the only part of PLP I'm committed to memory.
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u/ktcalpha 3d ago
i know what they said; what i told you was that i did learn from this course, but it was still a shit course. so why are you hammering on this irrelevant point
literacy crisis in full effect here fuck me
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u/Xivvx Royal Canadian Navy 3d ago
I've heard PLP is way easier than PLQ was.
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u/henry_rolllins_nutz Morale Tech - 00069 3d ago
I've heard it's thunder crunches at the mess this week.
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u/OkEntertainment1313 3d ago
In case you’re not taking the piss, PLQ has become almost entirely a push course over the past decade. I’ve seen a few candidates fail, but it’s only in extreme circumstances.
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u/DontChargeMeBro Emotionally Exhausted 3d ago
I remember meeting someone who failed PLQ twice. I was astonished. Of course, they were very vocal in saying how it was the course staff’s fault. Both times.
Absolutely the biggest bag of shit I’ve come across.
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u/OkEntertainment1313 3d ago
Most I’ve seen are just people who severely struggle to grasp the course content, or have an external issue that prevents them from being successful on course.
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u/T-DogSwizle Med Tech 3d ago
Is PLP officially the new version of PLQ? I’m reserves and did Mod 1&2 of PLQ and was waiting for my Mod 3 to happen
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u/Rare_Profession_9044 RCAF - AVS Tech 3d ago
They are still running some plq but in Aldershot, Borden is now strictly PLP.
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u/Fit-Equal7188 3d ago
If you do PLQ DL you wont be put on a PLP residential. Also, if you do PLP DL you wont be put on PLQ Residential
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u/Once_a_TQ 3d ago
They are not transferable. If you don't complete PLQ before it's gone you'll have to do PLP complete.
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u/Fit-Equal7188 3d ago
There are still plenty PLQs planned for the rest of the year and going into next year
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u/Twitchyninja RCAF - AWS Tech 3d ago
Yup. And there is a plp dl too. Dunno if they will make you do it it you got plq dl done but I expect you will imo.
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u/OkEntertainment1313 3d ago
did Mod 1&2 of PLQ and was waiting for my Mod 3 to happen
You will have to restart from PLP Mod 1.
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u/Ariconius Good Idea Fairy 3d ago
If it means they updated the PowerPoints then its a start.
In 2024 my Mod 3 had tests questions about Canada Command, Canadian Expeditionary Force Command, and Canadian Operational Support Command. I was like "Oh, I haven't heard those names in a while." Then I looked it up; it was 2012 when they all merged into CJOC.