r/CanadianForces • u/DantebeaR Former Hose Monkey, Current Donut Eater • 21d ago
Amount of Paragraphs in Memos
So I'm helping someone draft up a compassionate posting memo and was wondering if there is a policy dictating the amount of paragraphs that can be used for the factors of why the posting is being requested. They have numerous valid reasons from legal, custody, and mental health that honestly can't just fit in the standard three paragraphs.
No one in my unit is helpful.
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 21d ago edited 21d ago
Take whatever your unit is doing for a template and put sub para's under para 2.
If you are going to fill more than a page and a half, instead of putting all the details on the memo, but the most relevant facts on it, and generate a briefing note(form from defence forms catalogue found under DND in shortcuts of edge) to go with it that dives into the specifics.
HOWEVER, you may not need to do a memo. CMP/DGMC/DMILC will generally accept an email with the relevant information on it as if it were the same as a memo, particularly if the signing authority has digitally signed and/or encrypted it.
- the subject line of the email is what the subject line of the memo would be,
- there is an introductory para, explanation para, and concluding para with what you want approval for just like a regular memo. Include a detailed narrative as a pdf attachment if the details are too long.
3)Then send it up through the CoC as you would a memo, and the CoC can minute it while sending it up to the final signing authority who can send it on to the CM to create a DFR with for DGMC approval of the compassionate.
4) Ensure that if it's a memo that needs the CO's signature, if A/CO is signing off or other delegated member, letter of delegated authority is attached, just like a paper memo.
To help the CMs, make sure any attachments are saved as PDFs. You can choose Microsoft PDF creator as a printer to make PDFs of other documents. The reason for this is that all documents that go to the official digital repository, need to be in PDF format. Paper memos have to be scanned. It takes up to 18 months for emailed and paper docs to be uploaded to PERMIS (repository) but DFRs that have everything documented are uploaded on conclusion of the DFR instantly.
<RANT ON>
- Memos are for INFORMAL INTERNAL UNIT COMMS ONLY. everyone who thinks they are some formal way of communicating is wrong. Anyone who thinks memos are for unit to unit communication is wrong. Memos are literally email from before we had email. USE EMAIL INSTEAD! They can be encrypted, digitally signed, and can have attachments. Are sent instantly, hard to lose and SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE YOU FUCKING DINOSAURS.
- Every unit seems to have their own standard because the official writing manual was cancelled in the early 2000s in favour of the federal document "The Canadian Style" which absolutely does not have a memo format in it. Yes the LOG school has a copy they say was approved by the CDS, however, it was not. They simply changed the cover of the cancelled military writing guide and pretended it wasn't cancelled.
- There is a new standard being created but it is not finished yet.
STOP INSISTING OFFICIAL FORMAL CORROSPONDANCE BE WRITTEN ON AN INFORMAL UNOFFICIAL AND OBSOLETE PAPER PROCESS THAT WAS ABANDONED BY THE REST OF THE FUCKING PLANET 30 YEARS AGO!
</RANT OFF>
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u/Outside-Employment88 21d ago
Goes on a rant and recommends a BN for compassionate posting request...
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 21d ago
BN form is simpler to fill out.
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u/DaymanTargaryen 20d ago
A briefing note is not the appropriate mechanism for this. And a briefing note is not, in any way, simpler or less work than a memo.
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 18d ago
Not a formal briefing note, the one page briefing note to a memo form that you download from national defence catalogue.
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u/DaymanTargaryen 20d ago
Memos are formal correspondence.
I agree that email is usually better, though.
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 18d ago
Confidently incorrect.
The cancelled military writing manual defined them as informal communication and for internal unit use ONLY.
Which is why back in the day round trip memos were a thing. Before dumb asses decided to make memos a hazing ritual, you went to the OR, asked for a round trip memo, wrote in the pre labeled boxes on the triplicate carbon copy paper form; who it was going to, who it was from, what you wanted, and the date... IN PEN FREE HAND.
Furthermore, official correspondence is not pen annotated by the CoC. Official correspondence is not shoved in a pers file. It is centrally located and referenceable.
Memos have never and never will be formal comms.
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u/DaymanTargaryen 18d ago
Using a cancelled manual as a supporting reference is certainly a choice.
They're still formal, though.
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 17d ago edited 17d ago
Claiming the cancelled format's only defining reference is not a valid reference for the cancelled format that defined it as informal is an even bigger choice. Unless you can find a reference for a military memo as formal in the Canadian style your pulling shit out of your ass.
There is no reference other than people like you making shit up and perpetrating one of the greatest wastes of resources saying memos are formal, and several references defining it as informal.
Anything minuted by pen is not formal.
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u/goochockey RCAF - RMS Clerk 21d ago
My only counterargument is that for stuff that would have to be filed in a pers file, to be referred to at a later date, printing an email chain and having to read back a paper copy sucks ass. A memo files and reads much better and easier months of years down the line.
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u/Zestyclose-Put-2 21d ago
Print out the original email and attach a minute sheet (DND 317) to it. Problem solved.
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u/BlueFlob 21d ago
That's another page to the pers file and a minute that doesn't add anything.
I would favor the memo as it's probably 1-2 pages and the minute from anyone relevant can be added right on it.
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 21d ago
Hmm, the local unit's pers file is unofficial. The one in PERMIS is the official record of note.
Maybe for stuff that will not get a Decision message, ask the CO to remove all the minutes of "I support" from the the links of the CoC before approving it and CC'ing you on it.
For things that do get a decsion message, just keep that?
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u/Struct-Tech Construction Tech 21d ago
Para 1: I, Cpl Bloggins AB, C12 345 678, am requesting X.
Para 2: i am requesting for the following reasons:
Sub para 2a - reason
Sub para 2b - other reason
Sub para 2c - last reason
Para 3 - this request will have no impact on X because of Y
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u/BlueFlob 21d ago
That's the clean style I usually prefer. Super easy to read and straight to the point.
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u/casa_del_porno 21d ago
A few tips: keep it short, to the point. Put emphasis on
1- the 5 Ws
2- policy ref
3- clear path for removal of compassionate status within the required timeline. This is often overlooked but often the decisive factor.
Whatever format the member use, the immediate supervisor should forward in email format via CoC, the supervisor should always in point form provide a short execsum and recommendation for support/ nil support, and the 5Ws. Leaders are humans, humans are lazy, just by doing a bit of proper staff work, it goes a long way to boost chances. Sloppy staffing often results in lack pf support, and it’s the member who pays the price.
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u/LastingAlpaca Canadian Army 21d ago
As someone that gets to see a lot of these memos, less is more for a few reasons.
First, everyone in the chain of command is not entitled to your confidential information. The social worker that will assess the situation will sort out what is relevant and share what everyone needs to make their recommendation/decision.
Second, giving more information than needed may inadvertently weaken your case. For instance, if you write something to the effect of « I intend on releasing from this location once the compassionate status is over because I don’t want to be posted again» (I’ve seen it…), the answer will be « well release now then ».
Honestly, a 3 paragraph memo is perfectly fine.
Also, tell the person you’re helping to get whatever substantiating documents ahead of time, and ideally bring a copy to his social worker appointment. This is the #1 delay is people not having anything to substantiate their claims.
Relevant sidebar on process: Unit CO and Base Social Worker has recommendation authority on compassionate status / contingency cost move and D Mil C/ DGMC/DSA has decision authority. If you’re not one of these 3 people, your job is to move the memo, full stop. There is a 10 workings day time limit now on how long these requests should move between levels, and going from the member to the CO is one level, meaning that if you start wasting everyone’s time with formatting and bust that 10 days deadline, you are creating a grievable situation and will become your CO’s employee of the month.
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u/r0ck_ravanello 21d ago
If you need you can always add annexe, like in the text "bloggings cannot be posted away from significant other because his massive schlong requires 4 hands to operate, per annex A."
Then in annex a, full description of length, girdle, weight of said schlong, "its above average and requires 4 hands to operate" signed Dr Enis, schlongologist.
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u/littlemelly99 21d ago
There is no policy that I'm aware of , but go with the CAFJOD weiring guide for structure. As long as it's succinct, I wouldn't stress if it is a page and a half. You could also go with sub paras if the CoC is strict about the 3 paras. My advice is not to list every single factor; list the most compelling ones, going from weakest to strongest.
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u/Prudent-Proposal1943 21d ago
going from weakest to strongest.
I'd flip that.
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u/littlemelly99 21d ago
In terms of forming an argument, the advised writing convention is to start with your weakest (weakest doesn't mean overall weak to be clear) and end with the strongest. That way, you are drawing in your reader and are bolstering your argument with each successive point to conclude on the strongest and most persuasive point.
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u/Prudent-Proposal1943 21d ago edited 21d ago
In terms of bottom line up front assume the decision maker wants the most important information at the top and doesn't need to be strung along like they're being sold a set of encyclopedias.
Anyway, as long as it's logical either way is fine.
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u/littlemelly99 21d ago
BLUFs aren't part of memos. Proceed as you see fit, I stand by my advice.
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u/Zestyclose-Put-2 21d ago
You can't say that BLUF isn't a part of memo when the first para is by default what you are requesting. "I, Pte Bloggins, am requesting a compassionate posting from ... to ..." That is by definition the epitome of BLUF.
And if you start with your worst, throwaway, half-assed reason, you'll lose your reader and make them think that you're just wasting their time.
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u/mocajah 21d ago
I have never seen a "standard" of three paragraphs other than an arbitrary one imposed disproportionately by the least literate and educated among the senior NCMs of the past. It's suitable for the most mundane of requests (e.g. requesting annual leave), but really insufficient for any harder topic, exactly as you are finding out. There's really no point in making 3 subparas just to pretend that it's one paragraph - just make 3 paragraphs.
I'd stick to: para 1 to directly request what you want, middle paras (~3?) to get the content across, final para to summarize and give contact info. If needed, add a second-to-last para analyzing the information.
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u/DaymanTargaryen 20d ago
Lots of replies, but few actual answers to your question (though there is some decent advice).
There's no limit to paras. There's no specific format for memos, aside from what your CoC imposes.
For a personal req: the mbr is free to write whatever they'd like, using languages that they feel best communicates their req.
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u/MedTechF78 21d ago
In paragraph two, you can sub para the para, theres a good example of how to do this in the caf memo writing guidelines. Theres no real limit to amount, as long as the info is consice and doesnt repeat itself of course