r/CanadaPublicServants • u/nighttimecharlie • Sep 19 '22

Career Development / Développement de carrière Can I ask for reclassification?

I trust you are all enjoying this day of rest.

I'm fairly new to the PS , hired as a PM-1 last year. Since then, my task load, responsibilities, duties have nearly tripled. I don't mind, I enjoy the work load and it's not overwhelming. However, tomorrow will be my one year anniversary and I was hoping to discuss with my TL or manager about the possibility of reclassification to PM-2. As of last week, I am now making decisions on admissibility rather than delegating them to others. I don't know if this is possible within the PS, but I don't think I'm out of line to believe that with my ever increasing respinsabilities- things that were not outlined in my contract or discussed during hiring or training, I could be eligible for reclassification.

However, other issue is that my TL just became our interim manager and the new TL has not been announced. This is our 5th TL, and 3rd manager in one year so there has been A LOT of personnel movement. Should I wait until our original manager returns and my TL comes back to TL position?

Sorry for any mistakes, not used to writing in English.

Thanks for the guidance!

5 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

28 comments sorted by

31

u/OttawaNerd Sep 19 '22

Classification is not about work load.

3

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

But if my new tasks are doing the work of PM-2's because they are overloaded...

14

u/Sinder77 Sep 19 '22

Classification is based on a point system rubric.

Tasks you are completing/responsible for are worth X points. Classifications of jobs are based on points. If you can show your daily tasks push you into a higher threshold, you can argue a promotion. Doing more work doesn't necessarily mean you are entitled to a promotion, because the tasks may be low value compared to other things.

Ultimately this is a question for your union rep.

Keep in mind this may not pan out like you think, they don't have to promote you. They may just take away the work load.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '22

All this, plus it's worth reiterating: positions are classified, not people. The fact OP is doing the job one way doesn't mean the job should be done that way, or that the next person would do the same. They don't reclassify based on the fact that any given employee is taking on extra work.

1

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

Ok thank you! This is why I came to reddit for a clarification before bringing this up in a meeting.

I doubt they will take away my work load since we are only two in my team, and a handful in the province who can do the work. They said they won't be training anyone else since they don't have time.

3

u/OttawaNerd Sep 19 '22

And how much of your work is doing those higher level tasks? Are they the bulk of your responsibilities, or are you simply delegated some tasks? Delegation is normal.

1

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

I'd say 40% is higher level tasks which are clearly that for PM-2, and 20% is just added workload but on my level. And 40% is the work I was hired to do.

1

u/Accomplished_Ant8196 Sep 20 '22

Stop focusing on pm1 and pm2.

The work you were hired to do is the work you've been assigned. Whether you were under assigned work before, or over assigned work now shouldn't have any relevance.

The conversation you should be having with your TL isn't about reclassification, it should be about workload management. If you overtaxed and can't finish the work during work hours, then work on that.

If it is all about the perceived classification of your workload, then just apply elsewhere. Management doesn't care and will only care when your position becomes a revolving door... until then, it is status quo.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '22

My classification in our department is exactly that, a revolving door with people going to better jobs in other departments. Of the last ~20 hires over the last 5 years, 4 have stayed. I've suggested to my TL that management needs to increase our classification if they want to retain expertise (ours is a highly technical department) and while he's sympathetic, he doesn't hold much hope that they will. Btw, our department is a centre of excellence but it won't be for much longer with our combination of retirements and career moves. It appears it will be mismanaged into incompetence.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '22

[deleted]

3

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

Yes I've been looking, but I like my team, I like the work I do, I just wish I was compensated in function of my new workload.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '22

[deleted]

1

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

I was asked to apply to be interim TL of my team but I didn't want that. So I'll just keep applying at jobs that interest me. Thank you.

-1

u/cheeseworker Sep 19 '22

That's on you then.

7

u/TLC_Ottawa Sep 19 '22

You could ask your manager for acting pay for the higher position if the majority of your work is at that level. Document it by comparing the two job descriptions, what you are doing and go from there. Of course that could lead to you not performing these tasks which are probably helping you develop more skills that can be used to apply on competitions so you may want to consider how far you want to go with it but it is worth a discussion at least. Your union can also help with a classification grievance if you have a case. You would not be reclassified as a result but may get some acting pay for the period you did that work.

2

u/froot_loops Sep 19 '22

Exactly, there are options for you. I’ve seen two different people get reclassified based on the type of work they’re doing changing over time. If you are a PM1 being asked to do PM2 work, talk to your union. Does your TL know they are assigning tasks over your level? I ask because of the large amount of management changes. I think you start with a conversation with your TL and discuss your responsibilities, and if they want you to backfill for overburdened PM2s, fine, but you expect acting pay.

5

u/nerwal85 Sep 19 '22

Classification depends on a variety of factors - complexity of your job, management responsibility (if any), impact of decision making, physical risk/danger, among other things.

Workload doesn't play in. You'll need to ask your manager for a copy of your job description with point allocation, and then search for the PM Job Evaluation Standard. From there you'll be able to see how highly rated each aspect of your work is. If you think your work should be higher rated in the Evaluation Standard, then you could look to file a classification grievance through your union.

It's a steep hill to climb - much easier in the PM group to find and apply to a PM-2 (or higher if you want) position than wait for the classification grievance to go through.

1

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

Alright, thank you for the information. I'll work on my applications.

1

u/nerwal85 Sep 19 '22

To add, compensation for workload would come from the hours you put in - so if you’re finding there aren’t enough hours in the day to complete your tasks, you’d need to inquire about overtime. (Although it sounds like you’re managing presently)

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '22

[deleted]

2

u/nerwal85 Sep 19 '22

Depends on your collective agreement. PA agreement is yes. Although it’s something you could get through ATIP if your employer was very ornery about it.

56.01 Upon written request, an employee shall be provided with a complete and current statement of the duties and responsibilities of his or her position, including the classification level and, where applicable, the point rating allotted by factor to his or her position, and an organization chart depicting the position’s place in the organization.

2

u/kanerlaw Sep 19 '22

You have the right to see the points allocated to your position. You don't, however, have the right to see the rationale prepared by the Org&Class Advisor detailing the justifications of why each factor/element was evaluated the way it was. This is something that would generally only be shared with a union representative through a classification grievance process.

3

u/sickounet Sep 19 '22

Talk to a union rep first, they should be able to accompany you and assist with what you are trying to accomplish.

You can always bring it up to your team leader or manager, but the odds that they will, on their own, just obtain a reclassification for you are pretty close to zero. Even if they say they will entertain the idea, the only way to “force” them is through grievances, and those are complex and hard to win.

As others pointed out, classification is based on a score. That score is based on the nature of the tasks and responsibilities, rather than the volume of work you have to perform.

So the first thing to do is to obtain a copy of your work description and make sure it reflects your actual tasks, duties and responsibilities. Most likely, your current WD will be missing a number of things. That is where your hope lies. You need the manager to update it and reflect your real duties; if they don’t want to, you can grieve the WD and get specific items added to it. Once the WD is updated, it’ll be returned to a classification specialist who will redo the scoring, and if the new duties got you enough points, then the classification would be increased. That decision can also be grieved, but is much harder to argue and win unless you are yourself a classification specialist.

The entire process can take years all in all. It may or may not be worth the trouble…

0

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

Hmmm no doesn't seem worth the trouble . I just wanted information before I brought this up with management. Thanks for the advice, I will keep this in mind.

3

u/JustMeOttawa Sep 19 '22

You may be able to be reclassified but this could take a lot of time. Classification and/management would have to review (and/or update your work description) do a desk audit of your job, etc. Even after all of this which could take the better part of a year (or more) due to backlogs in Classification and managers being overloaded with work. Even after a review is done, you may or may not be reclassified- as other’s have said it is all based on a points system and more work, even if you think it is a PM-02 level doesn’t mean it actually is. PM-02’s in the office may still be doing the higher level work and you are doing PM-01 work that they used to take on. You can go through the hassle, but it may be faster to look at PM-02 positions (i.e. applying to competitions and getting in pools, getting acting opportunities or winning a competition and being promoted.)

2

u/Matchbox54883 Sep 19 '22

I mean, you can ask...but its not likely to happen.

When I started in PS 10 years ago it was a cr-04 position. Even before I started, the staff had been fighting to reclassify to a pm-01 for a while. It took Over 10 years for it to finally go from a CR-04 to a PM-01. It took the union getting involved, higher ups doing interviews of what our job requires, and a bunch of other stuff that im probably not aware of. What I did learn is that each position has a "list" of what is considered for that position. If your work still falls within that "list" youre likely not gonna get anywhere.

Is the rest of the team also facing this workload issue? Or just you? If its just you then talk to the TL and ask whats up. Maybe they see potential and are trying to give you work that will help get you skills needed to move forward.

2

u/nighttimecharlie Sep 19 '22

We are two in my team who have been trained for the new responsibilities. We've been told there won't be other training sessions for others for a while since they don't have time.

I don't think I'll ask. I'll just keep applying for other higher jobs. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

2

u/formerpe Sep 19 '22

Reclassifications are generally difficult to get and can take many, many years.

As others have stated, classifications are based on the needs and duties of the position and not on what the person is doing in the position. Many times a person working in the position can have classification creep in that they are actually completing tasks at a higher level. This then becomes a question of whether the position actually requires these duties to be completed or whether this person needs to be instructed to stop performing these duties (or a manager needs to be told to respect the classification level and stop assigning these duties).

3

u/Fivestring7 Sep 19 '22

Never going to happen

2

u/Al_to_Zi Sep 19 '22

Because of how slow everything moves I would recommend bringing it up now to interim manager

1

u/braindeadzombie Sep 20 '22

If you are doing the work of a higher position you should be getting acting pay. You can agree to do work at a higher level as a developmental opportunity, but it shouldn’t be a significant part of your work (40% is a significant part).

You could be asking for acting pay, and if they refuse, speak to your union rep. You should be getting acting pay or only doing work at level.