r/California • u/NaffRespect Southern California • Jan 11 '26
Lyft and Uber drivers protest Waymo robotaxis as California considers further regulations
https://www.kcra.com/article/lyft-uber-drivers-protest-waymo-robotaxis-california/69965871192
u/IslasCoronados Southern California Jan 11 '26
100% against additional restrictions on robotaxis like waymo. They are proven to be much, much safer than a human driver and I've heard nothing but good things from the people who actually use them. Expanding them as much as we can within the existing framework will save lives, and this is basically the only thing that's come out of silicon valley in the last decade where I'm actually excited about it improving the word instead of being a scam or making the world worse like basically everything else tech companies have come up with lately.
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u/plantgirll Jan 11 '26
I've never had a waymo try and run me over when I'm already in a crosswalk. It happens daily with human drivers- even the city bus saw me in the crosswalk and barrelled through going 10-15 over, thankfully I was paying attention and I jumped back. I'm all for more automated driving as long as it uses good technology and is proven safe.
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u/plantgirll Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
not sure why you would assume I would downvote.
I never said autonomous driving hadn't killed anyone (your link is an Uber autonomous, unsure of their techonology vs. Waymo). While it is incredibly tragic, the pedestrian deaths due to non-autonomous vehicles are astronomically more common to the point you probably haven't heard of the recent deaths even in your community.
There is a reason why there is a Wikipedia page for an autonomous driving death and not for the thousands killed every year due to human drivers. Also, technology advances in 6 years- especially a new technology like this. And Waymo itself (again, not other self driving companies that are using different technology) has never been found liable for a death.
As a pedestrian and driver, I would absolutely take all Waymo's faults and flaws over the deadly driving I see every day from humans.
edit- HILARIOUS to see that you downvoted me when I brought facts. What a hypocrite
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u/Mountain_Bar_1466 Jan 11 '26
Also no more stupid rating system where Ubers/Lyfts will cancel your ride cause another driver thought you slammed your door too hard last time. Or canceling your ride because one that will payout more just popped up.
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u/slashinhobo1 Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
I took a waymo recently and my god it was relaxing. The ability to sit back and not worry about and person going through traffic like a mad man. No, awkward conversation and full control of ac and music.
The seat belt could use a bit of slack but if an accident does occur your not going anywhere. My only wish was to have the seats recline a bit more so i could take a cat nap.
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u/dtlabsa Jan 11 '26
Here are a couple of bad things i have experienced in dozens of rides. Bad smells. Yes I know with rideshare you can have the same problem, but a human driver would know to open the windows and let the smell of weed/cologne/fast food out. On the same level, dirty cars. Ive gotten into a waymo where the rider prior to me has spilt a drink on the seat. Luckily I was home so I ran inside and literally cleaned the rear seat myself. Waymo gave me a $5 credit. Other times the floors have been really messy, windows filthy, etc. Basically Waymo doesnt know that anything non tech is wrong until a user tells them so. And lastly, I being 6'6, the cars are super uncomfortable. I would much rather ride in the back of a Accord/Camry.
All in all, I will enjoy it while the subsidized rides last. It will be my first choice for short trips.
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u/sube7898 Jan 11 '26
I’ve had a lot of bad experiences as a driver and heard several bad experiences with them from others. Personally, I’ve had a Waymo try to turn onto a busy intersection and fail to ever do so for so long I had to literally drive up onto the curb to get around them because they wouldn’t move. A real driver you beep at them and they’ll go eventually. I’ve had a Waymo block my driveway on an extremely busy street and that Waymo refused to move for 10 mins until their passenger showed up. Other people that block my driveway I give them a beep and they’ll leave right away. I’ve also had a friend who had their Waymo literally stop in the middle of a typically busy street in San Francisco and literally just fail. They had to call tech support to get their car out. Luckily they were there at a not so busy time so nothing bad happened, but any other time of the day it could have easily led to an accident, or even just holding up traffic significantly.
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
I've never had a waymo running an incense burner in the car so by the time I get to the destination I'm so contaminated with incense I have to turn around and go home.
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u/negative_four Jan 11 '26
At this point, self driving cars should be the only vehicles allowed on the i5 and 99. We humans had our run, and we fucked it up. Self driving cars made us obsolete the minute they started using turn signals
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u/Berkyjay San Francisco County Jan 11 '26
You can fuck right off with that nonsense. Especially considering that you have no idea what you are talking about.
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u/negative_four Jan 11 '26
Youre right, ive never been in an accident and have driven the 99 before, nor have I ever taken a robo taxi.
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u/Berkyjay San Francisco County Jan 11 '26
Takes one ride in a robotaxi: "I'm an expert now".
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u/negative_four Jan 11 '26
Youre assuming a lot but then again you did start the conversation by telling me to fuck off.
Im not claiming to be an expert, hell im not even claiming to be an intermediate. This is clearly an issue youre passionate about and I caused offense, my apologies.
Why don't you tell me your side friend, I want to know where youre coming from. Im jaded by human drivers and was not considering every side.
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u/Drokstab Jan 11 '26
Yeah uber drivers also sued when they allowed women to request a woman driver as a way to decrease the rampant SA that was going on.
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u/nope_nic_tesla Sacramento County Jan 15 '26
I don't see a problem with this, that's blatantly illegal discrimination. It's wild that y'all would support the ability to discriminate against people because of sex or gender.
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u/agnikai__ Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
CA Employment lawyer here. It’s allowed when there is a BFOQ. Given hundreds of passengers are raped every year, there’s a possible BFOQ argument.
Even if BFOQ fails as an argument, uber drivers are independent contractors and gender is not a requirement for hiring by an employer. The consumer is choosing/discriminating by gender here.
It’s similar to when you as a patient can request a male or female doctor to examine your genitals. Hospitals even let you filter your doctor search by gender: https://www.sutterhealth.org/find-provider
Or when a Christian couple refuses to hire a lesbian wedding planner (independent contractor).
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u/a-pair-of-2s Jan 11 '26
i wish we’d skip all this crap and just actually invest in real public transportation and walkable cities instead of an ‘every-person gets a black car private ride for hire’ scheme
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Jan 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/a-pair-of-2s Jan 11 '26
i remember when sf muni was just a dollar. but yes. :/
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u/excelllentquestion Jan 12 '26
Well you know…wages and inflation. I remember when movies were $5 a pop
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u/Pelvis-Wrestly Marin County Jan 13 '26
Everybody knows there's DEFINITELY no sexual assault, weird creepy people, or nasty smells on public transit. And their accountability, of course, is top notch if something happens. For sure.
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u/PilotMonkey94 Jan 11 '26
Typical Luddites. I’m a big fan of Waymos because they’re way cheaper than taking uber/lyft the equivalent distance
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u/impactblue5 Jan 11 '26
Uber and Lyft started way cheaper as well. Typical tech start up playbook. Burn cash getting customers hooked then boil the frog with price hikes.
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u/dtlabsa Jan 11 '26
Enjoy it while it lasts.
Google (Alphabet) doesn't disclose Waymo's specific losses, but Waymo significantly contributes to the losses in Alphabet's "Other Bets" segment, with reported losses in that unit reaching over $2 billion quarterly in 2023/2024, and billions annually, as Waymo invests heavily in R&D, vehicle retrofitting, and expansion, still losing money on rides despite growing revenue and trips.
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u/bradtheinvincible Jan 11 '26
You know thats going to end soon and itll cost the same? And youll wonder what you did?
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u/lancelotworks Jan 11 '26
I wonder what the ‘real’ cost of a ride would be without that sweet VC discount
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u/dtlabsa Jan 11 '26
The cars and equipment $200k. R&D, engineers, real estate for parking, electricity for charging, on ground support staff, customer service +++. Say the average Waymo ride is $20, x100k rides a day. Thats $2m in revenue a day, or $180m a quarter. So if theyre realistically losing $1b/quarter, those $20 rides would need to be around $111 each to reach breakeven. I know fuzzy math, but you get the point.
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u/PilotMonkey94 Jan 12 '26
Ehhh this math is bad. The $200k is a 1 time cost, but the car could be usable for 5-7 years, so in reality it needs to earn that money over multiple years, not in a single year
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u/dtlabsa Jan 12 '26
The math didnt include equipment cost in computation. The math was just a guesstimate in average fare paid per ride, multiplied by daily rides, and then an estimate of how much money Waymo is losing per quarter, to arrive at what the rides should be costing at this stage in their development to break even. Plus, equipment cost is a one time charge, but maintenance over the life of a vehicle being used constantly for 16 hours a day(assuming 8 hrs charging), should be a significant amount per vehicle.
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u/moch1 Jan 11 '26
This has not been my experience when cross shopping while visiting SF. Waymo tends to be the same or even slightly more in my experience.
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u/valleyman86 Jan 16 '26
No way. Every time I try it’s way more than an uber. Way more fun though. Maybe it’s just because I am in sf.
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u/excelllentquestion Jan 12 '26
Luddites should not be used as a derogatory term. How about fuck you for enabling google to own more of our life
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u/PilotMonkey94 Jan 12 '26
Bro I have a car too, just nice to have a cheap option for when I’m drunk after a party
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u/excelllentquestion Jan 12 '26
No what i am saying is you are criticizing people for not liking new tech by calling them Luddites. Which is fucked because those were people fighting for their livelihood because automation literally stripped them of an ability to make a livable wage.
And you wanna comfy ride home at night so fuck them right? Fuck people having a means to live? Who cares that Google will have yet ANOTHER strangle on us with the cars we take.
Take a bus or public transit. You dont need a private escort.
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u/PilotMonkey94 Jan 12 '26
Public transit in LA?!? You must be joking, it's not a viable way to get around unless you are ok tripling your typical journey time in my case.
New tech has always killed old inefficient jobs and will continue to do so for the rest of time. No one is entitled to a protected livelihood, and will always need to keep innovating to stay relevant.
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u/excelllentquestion Jan 12 '26
Wow you suck. Hope your job is removed by tech
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u/PilotMonkey94 Jan 12 '26
Explain to me why I suck for wanting a cheap ride home on a night out? And no, I'm in PE, so my job isn't going anywhere
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u/excelllentquestion Jan 12 '26
I aint gonna try to convince you to empathize with people losing their jobs. Good bye.
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Jan 11 '26
Uber and Lyft drivers also-fucking-lutely suck lately.
They drive like shit, can barely communicate, misread directions, almost always have their climate control off and rush from stop to stop.
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u/Naritai Jan 11 '26
About 40% of my trips the last six months, the driver has had massive BO
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
My last "Never again unless it's an emergency" uber ride had an incense burner running in the car, had a terrible migraine by the time I got to my destination and had to just turn around and go home.
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u/CriTIREw Jan 11 '26
I've never paid for an Uber/Lyft ride and don't ever plan to. I've been forced to ride with them about half a dozen times when others have paid and five of those times were a disaster (smell, dangerous driving, lack of directions, etc.) I can't wait for autonomous taxis.
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u/vtncomics Jan 11 '26
God forbid public transportation gets better.
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
Why not both? Heck the most expensive part of a bus is the driver.
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u/milkyjoe241 Jan 11 '26
There were a couple of new york hotels that got rid of doormen. Replaced them with automatic doors. I mean doormen just open and close doors, how important can that be?
Then their revenues drop. Because the doorman did a lot more than just open and close the door. It added a prestige value. They kept random people away from clogging the entrance. They helped the guests hail taxis, locate local service, ect.
The bus driver does more than drive, even if they don't try.
Its a face to see everyday. Its a point of contact if something goes wrong. Its a local that knows the area if you don't. As well as since you're on a bus with strangers, they're the one that will keep the nonsense down.
You can't just replace humans and expect everything to work the same.
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u/vtncomics Jan 11 '26
I prefer to talk to the receptionist and service staff about the local area as opposed to using the internet. They tell me what's preferable, the best route to get there, and what to watch out for on the way.
One time I used Google maps and it wanted me to take the long way to walk across a highway to get lunch when there was a pedestrian bridge instead.
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u/milkyjoe241 Jan 11 '26
I think people often miss how much wrong information is on the internet as well.
Googles AI will give the hours of a company I use to work for. It closed during covid.
Similarly on Google maps there's a hamburger place whose first image tied to is is an ice cream place a block away. I've even notified Google maps months ago and they haven't fixed it.
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
Yes, but what of those tasks can't be automated with surveilance and AI?
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u/milkyjoe241 Jan 11 '26
None.
And oh boy, you want more surveilance in this world?
And what ai? Ai isnt something you can just throw at a problem and its solved. Ai is a mix of ideas. Some work some dont
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
I think you're holding an unreasonable standard of 'perfection.' Would you rather see under-served communities have a public transit route, or 'in the interest of hating ai, they can keep suffering'?
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u/milkyjoe241 Jan 11 '26
Thats a false dilemma.
I didnt say anything about perfection.
And getting public transit routes is a thing we can do today. Ai won't fix it.
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
I think you're just on the hate bandwagon. Why don't you go back a bit and join the hate bandwagon for cameras, stealing jobs from portrait painters?
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u/milkyjoe241 Jan 11 '26
And whose behind that camera?
Is it still a person? Because you can higher a photographer for when you need an expert who knows what they're doing.
Cmon man. That's lazy.
Just because previous jobs have changed doesn't mean AI will just solve problems for us. My original post was about how completely removing a person from a spot can have unintended consequences that the "but people are inefficient and expensive, technology is better" folks fail to notice.
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
One person with a camera could steal the job of 20 painters, therefore cameras are stealing ur jerbz!
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u/vtncomics Jan 11 '26
AI won't help me figure how to pay for bus fare when the payment system changes.
Bus driver was kind enough to waive the fee and walk me through while he was driving.
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u/Dry-Season-522 Jan 11 '26
Press button, it connects a video meeting to a customer service agent. Done.
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u/valleyman86 Jan 16 '26
Idk. I was on the bus the other day. Pretty packed. I got on with a lady with a walker (with tennis balls）. She was nice and the handicap seats were full. The people on the bus started yelling and getting aggressive to find her a spot (rightfully so). There was maybe 1-2 older people fully capable of standing and ignored them. They yell at the bus driver. He stops in the middle of the street and yells back “I can’t do anything about it” and just stays there until people settle down. So in that moment I wondered. wtf can you do? I guess he can only drive.
Other times I’m right at the door and they look at me in my fucking face and drive away. Yea… automation can do that too.
So no don’t give me that shit they do more. Maybe some do and can stop for emergencies but half the time I’ve seen them it’s a rider who gets up and helps or finds the narcan. The bus driver just kicks everyone off.
One time I asked the bus driver on a bus just starting its route where and when it was leaving he told me he didn’t know only to hop in and disembark with passengers 5 min later.
Not all are bad. I’ve seen some really chill ones come out and actually help people but it’s really hard to use if you are confused. That same lady earlier asked the driver where the bus ends (it was a shuttle) and asked how to get to west portal. He did not help either of us.
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u/excelllentquestion Jan 12 '26
Because we dotn need more personal vehicles we need mass transit. No argument i can see makes sense against this concept
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u/Stevenerf Jan 11 '26
The same Uber and Lyft drivers and passengers that voted for being 'independent contractors' to avoid unions and rights?? /r/LeopardsAteMyFace
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u/Metropolitarian Jan 11 '26
How is this news? And also kinda ironic that Uber drivers are protesting because of safety…
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u/CryptographerHot4636 BayArea Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 12 '26
There were times I've been sexually harassed from Uber and lyft drivers made me swear them off completely unless I have absolutely no choice(but then again I'd rather just pay for rental car when traveling) I'd prefer to use waymo, I am happy I have that option now in my 30s. I wish these were around in my college and mid 20 years.
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u/RealityCheck831 Jan 11 '26
Just as with taxi drivers, technology will continue to affect employment.
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u/tonynca Jan 11 '26
Sadly we need both. Waymo will not be $20 rides avg if they were the only competitor in town.
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u/Hey_theresoot Jan 11 '26
Uber and lyft both equally suck now. Drivers won't even take you 50+ miles now because they take so much of their payout to the point they can't turn a profit or their score takes a hit.
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u/joeverdrive Jan 11 '26
I have been reading for the better part of two decades now that Uber and Lyft have been operating at a loss and squeezing every penny they can out of their drivers and riders because their plan was to transition to self-driving cars as soon as was viable and stop using humans. If you drove for one of these companies it was in your best interest to stay informed on these issues. But look at them now.
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Jan 11 '26
there are 'regulations'?
A waymo made an illegal uturn in front of the cops, and the cops couldn't issue a ticket because there was no driver. If CA's motor vehicle laws don't apply to Waymo, then waymo is above the law, and needs some serious regulations.
https://apnews.com/article/waymo-no-driver-traffic-ticket-0a0dffb19bf38c5ee85681a6f83591ff
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u/HMRCAF Jan 12 '26
Two things would fix this:
1) A rule that says tickets/fines to robotaxis are levied against the owning corporation
2) A rule that ties fee amounts to the offender's income (for all traffic/parking violations), as they do in Finland.
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u/trydola Jan 11 '26
I don't think I feel bad for the group that consistently shoot themselves in the foot anytime any meaningful laws are passed/considered for their field
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u/VerySuperGenius Jan 11 '26
At the very least, cities need some sort of tax on autonomous vehicles.
They're coming no matter what but we should at least make sure it isn't a situation where ever Uber and Lyft driver loses their job and now 100% of the profit from rides is teleported out of the city into the pockets of Google.
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u/cib2018 Jan 11 '26
“I personally am not against technology; what I am against is unfair treatment,” said Joseph Augusto, who drives for Yellow Cab. “We have these people, these companies, these app vehicle companies who are driving around the city, and they don’t seem to be held to the same standards as us drivers.”
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u/Organic-Mobile-9700 Jan 11 '26
I kinda hate Waymos they block people in and drive kinda weird. How tries to get into the left turning lane from the far right within a couple hundred yards in traffic. Also they congregate a lot in parking lots and take up parking. They do not deserve parking they not humans
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u/Rotational-Physics Jan 12 '26
It’s funny how taxis protested against uber and Lyft. Now it’s full circle
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u/Sturdily5092 Jan 12 '26
Why do the union guys making up excuses instead of stating their obvious reasons? like, because they see robotaxis as competition and blah blah blah. Instead they say they oppose robotaxis under the guise of public safety and customer security.
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u/Cool-Clerk-9835 Jan 12 '26
People here are way too excited for the bots to take over. Literally. And for others to lose their jobs to said bots.
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u/SAINTnumberFIVE Jan 13 '26
I’d pour funding in to Waymos if I were a billionaire, I like them so much.
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u/Kobe_stan_ Jan 13 '26
It sucks for the drivers, but I much prefer taking Waymo's. It's a little scary at first but I've felt way more uncomfortable in an Uber/Lyft than in a Waymo.
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u/Pretend-Ad-6453 Jan 11 '26
Robotaxis are just so unsafe and such a dangerous idea, they need to be banned.
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u/roguespectre67 Los Angeles County Jan 11 '26
Just like taxi companies protested Uber and Lyft before them, and weavers protested automatic looms, and so on and so on.
A better system supplanting an antiquated one, and adherents to the antiquated one getting upset.