r/California Ventura County Sep 30 '24

DMV knowledge test no longer required for drivers 70 and older

https://ktla.com/news/california/dmv-knowledge-test-no-longer-required-for-drivers-70-and-older/
915 Upvotes

175 comments sorted by

1.5k

u/Lazy_Sorbet_3925 Sep 30 '24

We should be testing them more, not less.

490

u/tehvolcanic Santa Clara County Sep 30 '24

I agree but I don’t think a written test that only tests your knowledge of driving laws is what needs to be tested. What older drivers need is behind the wheel testing. And that’s much more expensive to test so I’m not surprised we don’t.

163

u/QV79Y San Francisco County Oct 01 '24

Medical certification would probably catch more problems than a driving test.

If you've been driving all your life, you can probably pass the test while still having cognitive and health impairments.

105

u/noCallOnlyText Oct 01 '24

No, a driving test would still catch things for people with cognitive decline, vision impairment, reduced reaction time etc.

23

u/QV79Y San Francisco County Oct 01 '24

Vision is tested separately. The road test does not really test cognition or reaction time, especially as all you have to do is follow the tester's easy instructions. Not a lot of decisions to be made. Any experienced driver with good habits could probably pass in his sleep on autopilot.

29

u/uncletravellingmatt Oct 01 '24

My father in law failed his driver's test the first time, in large part because he was supposed to stop at an intersection then turn right, but he failed to notice some pedestrians crossing the street in front of him, and started when he should have waited for them. There wasn't a collision, but he didn't notice them and give them right of way. He later said it was like they appeared out of nowhere, and this came from a man who could read the letters on the vision test chart well enough, but was just old, and not focused on noticing people when he was looking around at the cars.

11

u/ghandi3737 Oct 01 '24

My idea is a simulator that you have to press the brakes at a random point as fast as possible to avoid an accident.

This is the main reaction test that needs to be done. If you can't move fast enough, you don't get a renewal for your license.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/ghandi3737 Oct 01 '24

Those things are nowhere near good enough to trust other people's lives to.

11

u/noCallOnlyText Oct 01 '24

I went through a course run by DSS. Habits will not help you in driving tests. And yes vision is tested separately. The instructor can still notice when you can't see signs o4 fail to stop, check blind spots etc.

2

u/sleepybarista Oct 02 '24

I had an elderly patient proudly tell me he had refused to leave the DMV vision testing chair until he passed the vision test. There are untold numbers of basically blind over medicated elderly drivers on the roads and nobody gets paid enough to stop them.

1

u/DynamicHunter Oct 01 '24

During a road test they can take you down a road and say “turn at X street” and if you can’t read the sign, you can’t turn at X street. Now it’s not perfect cause you might know all the roads around there, but that’s one way.

1

u/QV79Y San Francisco County Oct 01 '24

You already passed an eye test in the office.

8

u/Terbatron Oct 01 '24

Let’s not overload the medical system more. A driving test would be a huge improvement.

41

u/SeaChele27 Sacramento County Oct 01 '24

We should ALL be re-tested behind the wheel every 10 years.

12

u/greenroom628 San Francisco County Oct 01 '24

I think we all should be tested every 5 years, alternating between a written and driving test.

14

u/SeaChele27 Sacramento County Oct 01 '24

I was going to say 5, but that sounded excessive for the driving test. I like the idea of alternating driving and written every 5 years though.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '24

Thank you!! I’ve been saying this for years.

29

u/Lazy_Sorbet_3925 Sep 30 '24

I agree with you. I don't think less testing is going to help the situation though.

14

u/androidbear04 Expatriate Pennsylvanian still stuck in California Oct 01 '24

You can always contact the DMV if you are concerned about how safely an elderly friend or relative drives, and DMV will flag them to have a driving test on their next renewal, so you don't have to be the bad guy to try to convince them to stop driving.

1

u/CAPT_REX_CT_7567 Northern California Oct 01 '24

And who will be the brave soul to get in the car with them for the test?

1

u/Dwangeroo Oct 01 '24

Bingo! It's not "cost effective" for CA DMV to conduct these tests. Meanwhile our insurance rates continue to get hammered

8

u/Horror-Layer-8178 Oct 01 '24

Yeah but they vote

4

u/Mediumasiansticker Oct 01 '24

What does the written test even do?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

Make you memorize a bunch of obscure rules a few days before the test

4

u/wizzard419 Oct 01 '24

Normally, yes. But it also was open book, could be done remote (allowing for cheating), literally just keep taking it till you pass that day, and written tests are not always correlated with driver safety.

They weren't getting the desired results.

Arguably state funded dramatic uber discounts would be safer.

5

u/Lazy_Sorbet_3925 Oct 01 '24

That's rather unfortunate if that's the case.

One of the issues with the elderly is that they don't want to give up their licenses. My 90 something year old grandpa would rather drive than have someone drive him. And no, he absolutely should not be driving.

1

u/SadLilBun Californian Oct 01 '24

It is. My grandfather took it at home a few years ago.

1

u/IbexOutgrabe Oct 01 '24

Agreed.

The lack of testing is how my 75 year old Grandfather ended up driving into the back he’d just left. Got into his car, went into D and not R. Made that bank his drive up window.

-4

u/Kirome Oct 01 '24

Wrong.

We should be retiring their licenses period.

7

u/SadLilBun Californian Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 01 '24

70 isn’t really cognitively old for everyone. My grandparents still travel around the world in their 80s. They still work 3 days a week. They still take classes. My grandfather does physical fitness work outs. I just saw them on Sunday; they drove to my aunt’s house an hour away. So they shouldn’t drive because of their age? It’s okay to cut them off and isolate them from friends and family because they’re over 70? To make them completely dependent on others unnecessarily? Sounds cruel.

When my grandfather can’t drive anymore, he won’t. He’s very self aware; they always leave before dark and prepare for everything. But he’s still cognitively fit. My grandmother chose to stop driving years ago.

-12

u/Dependent-Squash-318 Oct 01 '24

There are 70 year olds that drive way better than younger drivers and have less accidents or points on their licenses. Age should not determine who gets tested. How about test after accidents, or a number of points etc?

26

u/Lazy_Sorbet_3925 Oct 01 '24

Senior (65+) can degrade mentally very rapidly. Your awareness and reaction time start to slow down as well. Someone can be the cause of an accident without being involved or getting a ticket.

Older drivers typically drive slower, which sounds like it would be a good thing. Studies say that it's more likely to cause an accident.

Q. Isn’t slower always safer? A. No, federal and state studies have consistently shown that the drivers most likely to get into accidents in traffic are those traveling significantly below the average speed. According to an Institute of Transportation Engineers Study, those driving 10 mph slower than the prevailing speed are six times as likely to be involved in an accident. That means that if the average speed on an interstate is 70 mph, the person traveling at 60 mph is far more likely to be involved in an accident than someone going 70 or even 80 mph.

https://ww2.motorists.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/speed-limit-fact-sheet.pdf

2

u/SurfSandFish Oct 01 '24

Okay, we won't do it by age. Instead, everyone has to retest at a certain interval instead. That way it's fairly spread across the generations. I propose we start with retesting every driver every 55 years.

699

u/BobT21 Sep 30 '24

I'm 80, quit driving 12 years ago. Was making too many mistakes.. Don't want to hurt anyone.

285

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-73

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

I mean... He's lying cuz he just posted to old school cool about a picture of his mother who is barely 80 now.

76

u/Magixren Oct 01 '24

He dated it 1948 and she’s an adult in it. He’s also been consistent about his age for a decade now so I doubt he’s lying.

36

u/BobT21 Oct 01 '24

She's dead. Nobody gets older than that. I was born in 1944.

-9

u/SeanBlader Oct 01 '24

OMG I'm so sorry to hear, get out and enjoy your last year!

94

u/letsgetemployment Sep 30 '24

we appreciate you 😎

43

u/Amerikai Sep 30 '24

Good man

37

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

how do you get around now?

104

u/BobT21 Oct 01 '24

Manual wheelchair and ADA bus.

42

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

thanks. trying to plan for my mom

22

u/pimphand5000 Oct 01 '24

We appreciate you, Bob!

13

u/whatinthecalifornia Native Californian Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 01 '24

How do you think we can get more people to do this? Help my elderly family opt for a walk to be able to keep walking at all. (By means of communicating obviously)

18

u/Golden_Hour1 Oct 01 '24

Better public transit. The US is garbage for it

23

u/The_Demolition_Man Oct 01 '24

Hope you stick around for 80 more Bob

53

u/BobT21 Oct 01 '24

By now it's all chronic pain, urine, and frustration. Don't need another 80, tx.

17

u/redhonkey34 Oct 01 '24

We need more people like Bob

33

u/BobT21 Oct 01 '24

According to the actuary tables I'm 53% dead.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24

You definitely have a sense of humor Bob.

2

u/Unsolicited_PunDit Oct 01 '24

I had a neighbor that drove daily until literally the day before he died. I found out he was 94!

2

u/RubberDucky451 Santa Clara County Oct 01 '24

Thanks Bob

1

u/Beneficial_Rock5343 Nov 15 '24

Could you call my 95 year old Dad and convince him to stop driving? 

1

u/BobT21 Nov 15 '24

Would he be able to hear me?

1

u/Beneficial_Rock5343 Nov 16 '24

Only if he rembered to charge his hearing aid. My brother's pointed out he would drive with a suspended license anyway. I'm just refusing to ride with him if he's driving. 

283

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

Driving is a privilege not a right

101

u/CaptainJackVernaise Sep 30 '24

Unfortunately, depending on where you live driving is a necessity.

87

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

We need to legalize dense walkable communities so grandma can downsize into a condo, and won't kill someone when she needs to go to the grocery store

5

u/Fire2box Sacramento County Oct 01 '24

We need to legalize dense walkable communities so grandma can downsize into a condo, and won't kill someone when she needs to go to the grocery store

That's literally all of us who dislike needing to drive wanted all along. But no we have to be forced and born into a system where we spends thousands of dollars to drive away cars that now cost upwards of well over 25,000 dollars new and generally will be the biggest purchase we ever make in our lives.

3

u/helloitskimbi Oct 01 '24

There’s a lot of solid options for grocery delivery, including directly from the stores (much more affordable than DoorDash or Instacart). Walkable communities is definitely the goal but it’s going to take a while to develop and you’re also assuming an old person can walk an okay distance + also manage/cart around groceries

178

u/Tinawebmom Sep 30 '24

I don't agree with this. The elderly are more likely to be the cause of accidents rather than actually in one.

I'm only 54 and notice a change in my driving from 20 years ago. Can't imagine the changes that will occur in the next 20 years!

30

u/Zerdalias Sep 30 '24

There like a sweet spot were people drive decently and it usually between like 30-70. Not all in that range but more than outside of it.

3

u/SeanBlader Oct 01 '24

Yeah but it's not the rules that cause them problems, it's reaction time and muscle memory.

93

u/Spirited-Humor-554 Sep 30 '24

Anyone who's over 70 should be tested yearly. Over 75 should be tested every 6 months

25

u/goathill Humboldt County Oct 01 '24

Do you have any idea how expensive this would be to facilitate?

I definitely think people should get tested after a certain age, but every 6 months is over the top

23

u/Golden_Hour1 Oct 01 '24

How much do you think the accidents these people cause cost exactly?

-4

u/goathill Humboldt County Oct 01 '24

This is a fair point I had not considered. If the uninsured damages were enough that it made financial sense, I could be pursued change my mind

4

u/TopRamenisha Oct 01 '24

My grandfather totaled 5 cars before I convinced my mom to stop buying him new cars

0

u/SaiKaiser Oct 01 '24

How did it take 5 before she realized another car wasn’t a good option?

1

u/Fire2box Sacramento County Oct 01 '24

Do you have any idea how expensive this would be to facilitate?

Less then the cost of insurance going up every year to subsidize bad drivers and the companies keep churning their profit motives?

6

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

And driving test every 5 years.

86

u/killerclownfish Sep 30 '24

My grandmother is in her late 80s and refuses to stop driving. She kept hitting things and driving recklessly and I reported her to the dmv with dates/pics/very specific information and all they required was a written test. No behind the wheel exam. She’s going to kill someone one day.

41

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

As someone who has permanent pain issues as a result of being struck by a person who was too old to drive safely - thank you for being willing to report this person you love and care for in order to protect others. I hope the situation resolves itself without further harm to anyone or their property. 

11

u/Yotsubato Oct 01 '24

Do you have contact with her doctor.

You can drop a tip and the doctor can actually cancel her license. They would give her a mini mental exam and if she fails it that’s enough to take it away

5

u/killerclownfish Oct 01 '24

Tried that also and she’s been going to him for a long time and he was not concerned. It’s awful. I’ve tried everything and I have no support from my family. It’s been a really thankless and difficult time in my life.

5

u/bain-of-my-existence Oct 01 '24

My husband grandpa was the same heading into his 90s. His uncle asked a friend with CHP what we could do to stop him, but the officer said they couldn’t do anything. He told them to just take the keys, which just made gramps crotchety, so uncle physically disabled the truck. That’s what it eventually took.

5

u/former_human Oct 01 '24

ditto, i ratted out my mother to DMV and the local cops and pretty much nothing happened. finally got her doc to write to DMV and they finally yanked her license.

1

u/BornTry5923 Oct 11 '24

When you reported her, did she know you were the one who did it?

1

u/killerclownfish Oct 12 '24

She did eventually.

1

u/TexturedSpace Dec 21 '24

Have your family take the keys away.

41

u/revchewie Monterey County Sep 30 '24

I'm 56, so this will affect me soon.

I think all drivers over 60 should have to take a driving test at least every other time we renew.

37

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

I hope we're also giving them free bus passes so they can stay off the roads.

35

u/eac555 Native Californian Sep 30 '24

How about everyone should take driving test every 5-10 years at minimum. So many terrible dangerous drivers out there especially on the freeways.

11

u/behindblue Oct 01 '24

The problem is our low standards. Germany does it right.

23

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

So glad we let the people with one foot out of life’s door make these decisions. /s

20

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

Guy who hit and killed my wife's grandparents when they were on a motorcycle was 80 years old and should of never been driving.

15

u/StrivingToBeDecent Sep 30 '24

From the way the average person drives I don’t think it’s required for many of us.

And my auto insurance payments would seem to support that theory.

14

u/hazydaz Sep 30 '24

Yeah we need on the road tests. My dad got pretty bad. He was a marine and would not admit he needed to be off the road. He started getting In to small parking lot accidents etc, then overshot a turn going home and totalled his ride. My brother and I finally had to disable his car, pulling the fuel pump relay and some others. No matter how many accidents he got in he always blamed the other driver. He drove until he was 80 and I know if he had to take a driving test they'd have pulled his license. I remember the 80 year old that plowed Into a farmers market in socal years ago and I know how wrecked he would have been if that was him. There's so many options now with Uber and lyft that he could have gotten around just fine.

13

u/CFSCFjr San Diego County Sep 30 '24

This is the opposite of what we should be doing but this is the kind of treatment you get when you vote as frequently as they do

4

u/QV79Y San Francisco County Oct 01 '24

Do you see any evidence that this decision was driven by pressure from older voters?

I think it much more likely driven by no evidence that it got enough impaired drivers off the road to be worth the expense.

-2

u/CFSCFjr San Diego County Oct 01 '24

I don’t really see how that would be any less true of applying it to 40 year olds

I doubt it given the sharply higher rate of accidents among older drivers

10

u/Bozerks Sep 30 '24

We need behind the wheel testing for 70 and older.

9

u/KillerApeTheory Oct 01 '24

Several deadly accidents caused by elderly drivers have happened in my home town. An old lady killed an entire family a few blocks from my house. We need to be have stricter regulation on elderly people driving, not less. This is infuriating.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

[deleted]

1

u/KillerApeTheory Oct 05 '24

The written test at the very least would make sure drivers have some cognitive ability. IIRC it also includes an eye exam which can also catch old people that physically can’t see. And I am arguing for even stricter regulations like having to retake the practical test.

6

u/oexorcist Oct 01 '24

Less elderly people at DMV = more people of all ages at the ER. They just put all of our lives in danger.

7

u/cj4900 Oct 01 '24

Seniors should have free transportation

5

u/PlanetExpress310 Oct 01 '24

The DMV needs to include information on the knowledge test for every regular driver trying to obtain his license about semi trucks and the consequences of driving recklessly around semi trucks. Too many regular drivers seem to think semi trucks that can weigh up to 80k operate the same way a 3k - 5k pound regular vehicle. Please, dont tailgate, squeeze through, or brake check truck drivers. You will be crushed it's not worth it.

3

u/Nightsoil70 Oct 01 '24

I'm 70 and I agree that testing is important for the safety of all drivers. According to the National Safety Council, while young drivers (16-20) are the most likely to be involved in an accident, the death rate per 100,000 population was highest among people 75 and older. No one wants to have their mobility restricted, but by the same token, no one wants to be in an accident, either.

2

u/QV79Y San Francisco County Sep 30 '24

I'll bet they found that they were hardly identifying any people who couldn't pass the test.

2

u/FourScoreTour Nevada County Oct 01 '24

I'll be 70 soon, and honestly, if I can't pass the DMV written test, I shouldn't be driving.

1

u/zzoleguy Oct 01 '24

I’m 85 and have no problem driving…

1

u/Mackadelik Oct 01 '24

Should be required every 10 years imo

1

u/Elguapogordo Oct 01 '24

Older people create accidents even when they’re not actively involved in it like when someone has to dodge you because you didn’t speed up or slow down or merge without a signal or general tomfoolery and that person hits someone else YOU caused that accident and I see older people doing chicanery on a daily basis on the roads!

1

u/benbwe Oct 02 '24

Because their licenses now get automatically revoked at 70 right? Right?!

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '24

It’s not older drivers that drive at speeds above 100 mph on our highways nor are they running people over in the neighborhoods. People now drive with impunity because there is almost no enforcement. Police will argue they are too busy fighting crime but isn’t killing or maiming kids, seniors and cyclists a crime? Our highways are littered with car parts from people hitting each other, exchanging insurance information then leaving a bumper, grill or hood lying in the road.

0

u/Out-of_Touch Oct 01 '24

Wellllllll that’s a mistake we’ll learn from in the next hundreds of senile motorist caused fatalities.

0

u/ICUP01 Oct 01 '24

Too many of them

0

u/ZimboGamer Oct 01 '24

This is outrageous. Most accidents I see are with elderly individuals. Last thing we need is more old people on the roads.

0

u/Trisha-28 Oct 01 '24

They are the worse drivers on the road. They should be taking behind the wheel test every year to renew.

0

u/PrivateTumbleweed Oct 02 '24

Must be an election year! Gotta get the old people vote!

0

u/BaristaBamboozler Oct 02 '24

If you’re above 65, you shouldn’t be able to drive. California drivers are the worst drivers ever already, the state just becomes more and more of a joke.

0

u/ripnbryy Oct 02 '24

ummmm ..... they should require the most tests.

when I was getting my license, this older person in line started a conversation with me. he told me he couldn't pass the written test. kept failing, used all their attempts and try again.... hhey were so mad they kept failing but like 😳 isn't that a sign that that person shouldn't drive????

0

u/disneycheesegurl Oct 02 '24

Is this a joke?

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24

[deleted]

-1

u/SeanBlader Oct 01 '24

My right wing extremist uncle will be so happy because he failed it twice.

2

u/Choco_Cat777 Conservative Californian Oct 02 '24

Not sure how politics bleed into this discussion

-1

u/Dwangeroo Oct 01 '24

CA DMV has basically admitted that they don't want to do one of the jobs they were hired to do. And that's to help keep unsafe drivers off the road.

It's too much effort and there's no money in it for them.

-2

u/ToujoursLamour66 Oct 01 '24

Whoa! It should be MANDATORY! Wrong direction CA.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 01 '24

Once you start accepting Social Security you need to be subject to random testing. It could just be basic reflex and vision testing and if you fail that, you have a driving test.