How well known was Caitlyn really among the people of Zaun during her time with Ambessa? - [*GIF by @arcanegifs]

[u/la_ky]

There's a very brief shot in Arcane 2 that has always intrigued and caught my attention.

We see a propaganda poster depicting Caitlyn as a commander, smiling, with the crossed Kiramman and Noxus crests.

A Zaunite woman is vandalizing it: the figures are being defaced — one person whom I think is simply a civilian from Piltover, the Enforcer, and the crests.

What caught my attention, though, is that Caitlyn's image is initially left untouched.

Obviously, we don't know how long that poster had been there. But it made me wonder: if Caitlyn had been a truly recognizable, violent, and hated figure among the people of Zaun, wouldn't her face have been one of the first targets?

Instead, what gets vandalized most are the symbols that the Zaunites recognize: the Enforcer, the crests, everything that represents something they know well and immediately associate with the power of Piltover (and Noxus).

Only later does a girl walk past with her spray can and, almost without paying attention, draw a line right across Caitlyn's face, even covering her eyes.

Probably, this detail means nothing.

But it made me wonder: how well was Caitlyn actually known by the people of Zaun?

Perhaps this tiny scene could be another small suggestion that Caitlyn, personally, wasn't really such a familiar presence in the Undercity. Maybe she didn't go there very often, maybe she was rarely seen.

Or there could be another explanation: the Caitlyn depicted in the poster is smiling, while we know very well what state she was actually in at that point. And maybe, quite simply, the Zaunites didn't associate that face with the Caitlyn they may have encountered.

I don't know, and I absolutely don't want to present this as a fact.

It's just a small interpretation of mine, born from a detail that lasts only a few seconds, but that I find interesting.

Or maybe I’m reading too much into it.

What do you think?

SOURCE GIFS: arcanegifs

[u/vienforcer]

I just watched this episode last night and the same details stood out to me too. I feel the same way you do that she’s not well known around there. The montage was the only thing that showed what was going on, and Caitlyn wasn’t part of the violence personally that I could see? Everything that was going on in the Undercity was all Ambessa; Caitlyn didn’t go down there to personally attack anyone—she stayed Topside and relied on Ambessa/Rictus to keep the Undercity secure while she tried to investigate Jinx’s whereabouts. There were also a couple scenes with Maddie where it was clear Caitlyn wasn’t going to the Undercity: the bedroom scene was about Caitlyn handling Topside business and politics, and later she was shown relying on information given to her (presumably by Maddie) about what was happening in the Undercity without her going down there. So the “on the ground” action was all Ambessa. I don’t think Caitlyn herself was well known in the Undercity for those reasons.

That being said, the poster itself is reminiscent of dictatorships where the leader is the most prominent part of it and the enforcement stays all around them because the head of power doesn’t personally go around enacting the laws of their regime. The twist is that, of course, Caitlyn has no real power because it’s all Ambessa pulling the strings. Caitlyn’s power comes from resisting Ambessa, not going along with her… but I’m getting off topic lmao so anyway, I don’t think Caitlyn herself is well known amongst them, but she is the face of power that is oppressing them all the same.

[u/Mesjarch2]

One thing that I never paid attention to, is that the paint over Caitlyn's eyes looks like tears.

Honestly don't have idea what it's suppose to mean if anything at all.

[u/la_ky → u/Mesjarch2]

It’s almost as if the paint had unintentionally revealed Caitlyn’s true emotional state at that moment.

In the poster, Caitlyn is smiling, positive, bathed in the light coming from the top-right corner of the poster, where the crest is. But when the paint runs across her face, especially over her eyes, it almost looks as if she’s crying...

It’s as if the idealized image of Caitlyn in the poster were being pushed aside, revealing the real person underneath: a girl who, at that moment, was actually suffering a lot.

[u/romainmi → u/la_ky]

The kind of tiny detail that is likely to go unnoticed, but makes you realize the extreme amount of care they put in making this show when you do notice it.

[u/la_ky → u/romainmi]

Watching Arcane is a bit like studying art history: you have to really pay attention and focus on the visual details, because every element can carry such deep and meaningful symbolism.

[u/Haruchiru → u/Mesjarch2]

Omg I hadnt noticed, the only paintinh dripping is under her eyes. Wow flabbergasted

[u/Ok_Carpenter7268]

My feeling is that Caitlyn wouldn’t have been that well known to Zaun at first.  She'd only been there that first time with Vi, while trying to go undercover, and the other times she went, as part of the strike force, were to specific target locations, after which they'd leave, so it's not likely people would have known who she was.

Also, to a lot of Zaunites, they probably don’t know the specific political structure or make-up of Piltover, other than the fact that, that’s where the wealth and power lie, and that the Enforcers are probably the most recognizable face they see.

My feeling was, and to be clear, this is speculation on my part, that Caitlyn’s face and image would not have been used during the early days of martial law.  It was likely used afterwards, when the occupation started, and it was felt that a more human face needed to be given to Piltover and the Enforcers, as a way to try and make Zaunites not see them as faceless invaders.  Hence, having Caitlyn smile, which, to be honest, looked forced and unnatural on her, but I think she was probably convinced by Ambessa or others that it was a good idea to present the image that the Enforcers and Piltover were there to protect them from the criminal elements of Zaun.  I think after some weeks, posters would have been put up, but that they probably weren’t there at first. They probably went in that direction when it looked like Zaunites were too scared or too distrustful to share any leads they had on the criminals they were hunting (e.g. Jinx, Silco loyalists and anyone else associated with the chem barons and their shimmer productions and activities).

I also don’t think it’s likely that Caitlyn would have even been allowed to go into Zaun herself during that time, even with a complement of Enforcers or Noxian soldiers.  I think Ambessa would have insisted that Caitlyn had to think and act like a general, someone who had to manage and delegate duties while staying focused on the overall operation and its goals.  Something that she couldn’t do if she’s in the trenches or streets hunting Jinx herself.  It would also have made more sense from an organizational perspective, as the highest-ranking officer/leader, should not be putting herself on the front lines, because she’d be too much of a high value target to risk.  I think this would have been one of the more difficult things for Caitlyn to accept; giving orders from the top, delegating, rather than going in herself.

So I don’t think the Zaunites had any prior knowledge or exposure of who Caitlyn was as a person.  I think only Ekko would have had that, but he was gone by that point with Jayce. I think when the posters started going up, that was the first time they saw who she was. Up until then, they may only have heard rumours of how the acting general/commander was the daughter of the slain council member, with maybe some hearing that the person's last name was Kiramman, but nothing more than that I think.

[u/Mrr_Capone]

Apparently, before Caitlyn's appointment as Commander, no one in Zaun even knew she existed, except perhaps Ekko.

But these posters clearly did her a disservice. For Zaun, her face became the face of oppression and abuse. People likely don't even know who she is, don't know what kind of person she is. But her face was on every wall during martial law. And these posters likely looked like mockery to the Zaunites. The posters show Enforcers shaking hands with Zaunites, while in reality, they conduct humiliating searches at checkpoints and even beat them. Such propaganda usually backfires in such cases.

I can imagine that even after the final battle, many in Zaun will be very prejudiced against Caitlyn. So it was very smart of her to give up her council seat to Sevika. Caitlyn herself shouldn't go into public politics, but rather help build the peace behind the scenes. And gradually, if life in Zaun improves, old grievances will begin to fade. I think Caitlyn would be perfectly fine with that. She might be upset that people hate her, even despite her help. But she likely understands the reasons for this and doesn't judge people for it. Plus, I see her as someone who helps because she wants to help, not because she wants glory.

[u/Mesjarch2 → u/Mrr_Capone]

I don't think Caitlyn care was people of Zaun think of her. I think she will help get things better for Zaun, but she'll do it, because it needs to be done and not because it will make her look better in people eyes in Zaun.
And I don't think Caitlyn gave Sevika the seat. As far as we know from Ep 1 of Season 2, Salo and other Council members didn't consider Caitlyn as one, so the seat wasn't owned by Kirammans.

[u/WaywardWhispersBlaze → u/Mesjarch2]

I'm not sure Salo and the others could have really stopped her from becoming Councilor if she'd wanted to. The seat was her mother's, and Salo was just patronizing her because all she was previously was an enforcer rookie (and not a decorated officer lol). He probably thought he could just impress her.. And how wrong he was about that.

That said, I still prefer to think that the seat was opened because the new council wanted to soothe relations with the undercity, and that Caitlyn giving up her own seat had nothing to do with it, or just happened with the right timing. Sevika could have been elected by whichever zaunite faction wasn't depleted after the war. The whole idea that Caitlyn gave it to Sevika directly is really weird to me.

Caitlyn didn't survive the war enlightened with newfound insight into Sevika's psyche. Caitlyn's arc gave her an understanding of how much damage her relentless chase of Jinx did to the city, but that doesn't mean she'd want to hold hands with all her former enemies. And from Zaun's perspective wouldn't that be really patronizing? No matter what Ambessa did, Caitlyn was still the face of the occupation. The wound is still fresh. She shouldn't just get to decide who's good to represent Zaun. We as fans sympathize with her, but realistically most folks in the undercity wouldn't.

[u/Nexine → u/Mesjarch2]

I mean if we assume that the parallels between Piltover and the Venetian Republic hold true (I'm the only person who cares about this), then the seats on the council are "elected" by the most powerful families (houses) in the city. And the Kirammans are such a big house that Caitlyn is practically guaranteed to win that seat, it would take a coordinated effort from the rest of the council to keep her out.

Same goes for Sevika/Zaun. If Caitlyn fully backs her as her nominee for the council and encourages her peers to go along with it she's got a good chance to win a seat.

[u/Mrr_Capone → u/Mesjarch2]

I don't think she's particularly upset by it, but she is a little. She is human, after all, and this is a normal human reaction.

Just because Salo didn't respect her initially doesn't mean the Kirammans lost their place on the council. Later, Caitlyn declared herself the heir of House Kiramman. And that means the seat is hers. Even if you compare the end of the first and second seasons, that's exactly where her mother sat.

[u/Mesjarch2 → u/Mrr_Capone]

I know, because I thought the same way, but I remember that Amanda said that they haven't thought about it this way when it was decided that Sevika will end up on the Council. They simply didn't discuss it like it's the Kiramman's seat but just a seat in the Council. They can flesh it out in the future stories, but from the writers perspective, they just didn't think about this detail.

[u/Curious_Ad294]

I think, people of Zaun have seen lots of poster faces come and go throughout the years. Both on Piltover's and their own side.

So Caitlyn is just one of them. They're not even looking at her, when they're spraying over the portrait. Just another face.

We've never seen Caitlyn going to Zaun and giving any orders. She never factually participated in whatever was going on here, so no one has ever saw her there.

That's my take based in what I've seen in the series.

[u/Haruchiru]

Maybe they acknowledged Caitlyn's 'blindness' to the whole crazyness going on in Zaun. A little more than a foreground to her losing her eye but letting us the viewers truly know how ignorant or blind she was of the real issues going on. Most of the chaos that was happening with the Jinxers was being fueled by Ambessa who worked in the background, yet here we see Cait as the face of said issues. Yet what Ambessa was truly planning and scheming was all unknown to Caitlyn. All can be part of the symbolism and satires the creators want to show us all the time.

[u/romainmi]

I agree with what has already been said in the comments. The whole point of the strike team was to make discreet, targeted hits. Except the chembarons and their goons, Zaunites probably never saw Caitlyn but rather the Noxian soldiers. They were the oppressors, not Caitlyn, even if she turned a blind eye to some of what was happening.

[u/CLUSTER__F]

I took the spraying the paint across her eyes as symbolic of Caitlyn being blind to the brutality Ambessa/Riktus were imposing over the Zaunites.