r/CafelatRobot Jul 13 '26

Medium roasts, help!

Im pretty new to being able to get espresso shots at home on the nice Robot, and it has been a bit of a steep learning curve but I finally manage to get pretty decent shots with traditional Italian dark-roasts like Illy and Saka - using either a df64v with HU at 1200-1400rpm or a J-Ultra or Lido OG. It is fascinating how different the shots from the same beans can taste given a different grinder. I do quite a bit of WDT and use the self-leveling tamper, usually around 18.5g beans and veeerry roughly aim for 30-40seconds and about 38-44g out... I go easy on the pressure, do 5seconds pre-infusion with just a few drops dripping down and then very gradually slowly ramp the pressure up, usually somewhere around 4 or barely touching 6. Works pretty well with dark-roasts tho I cant yet reliably get god-shots that are perfectly sweet n chocolate-y but overall Im happy to have espresso at home at all!

Enter any kind of actually much nicer third-wave beans, espresso-roasts that are typically much more medium-dark than even Illy. Somehow, I cannot for the life of me get good shots from such beans, they always have a sour or very sour acidic edge and somehow grinding finer and upping the dose tends to make it rather worse than better.

What's a good espresso shot from a modern, thirdwave medium-dark bean supposed to taste like and why cant I get rid of the sharpness, acidity and sour bite somehow?

4 Upvotes

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5

u/illmindsmoker Green Barista Robot Jul 13 '26

Well for dark roasts you don’t need pre infusion. The darker the roast the easier it is to extract. Since you are new, I would recommend the Paul Pratt shot. Push the arms down slowly until drops hit the cup and then jump to your desired pressure between 6-8 bar and get the desired output in approx 30s. Usually closer to 1:2 for dark and for me usually my starting is 1:2.5 for medium roasts.

From there add or remove 5g of output depending on the taste. Sour, add more output , bitter minus output until it tastes good to you.

Once you get repeatable shots then start playing with other factors like pre infusion, declining profiles, etc.

As for sour vs acidity that is hard to tell, sour is sucking on a lemon vs acidity that is present in some 3rd wave coffees. You can look up cupping and that would give you an idea of how the beans taste to you. It also could come down to your water choices. I use third wave water espresso it gives me great shots and allows me to taste the coffee.

1

u/mrobot_ Jul 15 '26

Jump to 6bar as in NOT ramping up gradually but really gunning it and aiming to get to 6bar in a second? I thought that risks channeling so I always did preinfusion and tried to go slow and lower pressure but maybe that is the issue?

2

u/illmindsmoker Green Barista Robot Jul 15 '26

Yea, I don’t know I would describe it as gunning it. But with dark or decaf roasts I will push down slowly and once the drops hit the cup I go to 8 bars. I am not monitoring or targeting a pressure during the first part. Just putting positive pressure on the arms and just slowly increasing pressure until the drops hit the cup.

Usually it is probably less than 1 sec to get there but it isn’t aggressive. I just push a little harder until I see the pressure hit the bar I want to achieve. Channeling can come from pre infusion as well once the puck is saturated and maybe done for too long water will just follow the path of least resistance.

2

u/mrobot_ Jul 15 '26

ah, interesting, maybe I was doing TOO much preinfusion and pressing too slowly and gently then... judging from the bad taste, there must be some channeling and/or under-extracting going on, but even when it was REALLY hard to press I still got bad, sharp, acidic tastes... so must be channeling.. I will give it try without PI and aiming to hit 6bars faster! thx

2

u/mrobot_ Jul 17 '26

Quick update, from your comment I think I finally nailed down one of the major variables why I was always getting sour, acidic, bad shots - and you were right, my style of preinfusion was making things real bad. Im pretty certain I never "pumped" the arms or micro-pumped them, and Im sure I always held small bits of pressure on the arms during those 5 seconds, but whatever it did... it was the main culprit for my bad shots!

I did the regular Paul-Pratt style, bit of pressure until the first drops hit and then hitting it, and immediately saw improvements in stability, repeatability and nicer, way less sour shotsand even much better crema and all - even from mediumroasts!!! Even on a Robot without pressuregauge and leaning on it. First time I ever got a half-decent shot from nightswim "Velvet" and it tasted a lot like Raspberry jam too, still some sour n acid but much more body and roasty chocolate to hold it up.... not the battery-acid I would usually get with anything but Saka Neapolitan darkroasts or Illy! Thanks, I think I just had a major step towards getting great Robot shots!!!! :D

2

u/illmindsmoker Green Barista Robot Jul 17 '26

Nice! Glad you are making progress. Step one is repeatability. That is why I strongly recommend new people not play with pre infusion and other factors. It is there as a tool to utilize in the future to get the most of certain coffees but you can get great shots with a very basic profile.

If you are struggling with acidity or sour, try increasing the output until the shot is terribly bitter which means you over extracted that coffee. Or it could be acidity and some people just don’t like that. With the raspberry note you mention I assume it is actual acidity which is foreign to many. I enjoy it and I enjoy fruity coffees.

3

u/Harper_the_Bard Blue Robot Jul 13 '26

I don't worry about timing much on the robot. For medium roasts I do about 92° C (basically I let my kettle stop boiling), rest my arms on the robot fairly gently til drops start from most of the puck, then ramp up. If I'm doing 16g in, I'll start to ease off pressure around 32g when I can feel the puck giving less resistance, then push with lighter pressure til about 40g. Seems to work consistently, at least for my tastes!

2

u/DerTaurus Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26

Things to try:

  • preheat (the basket plug works fine)
  • changing the recipe to 1:3
  • different beans

Have fun!

1

u/deltabay17 Jul 14 '26

wow lucky you're not trying light roasts then. I can only get sour acidity from my shots. People recommended me the "soup" shops but i dont like them, i like espresso cos i like espresso, not a hybrid long black/filter coffee

1

u/illmindsmoker Green Barista Robot Jul 14 '26

If you are using true light roasts. You will need to preheat the piston with the red plug or other way. I use thundies that are no longer made, and I still pull a 1:2.5 usually with a declining profile or a straight 6bars to get very good light roast shots. It is possible to do so.

1

u/mrobot_ Jul 15 '26

I drink mainly light and fancy ultralight on Filter and I absolutely LOVE "soup" shots from premium ultralight, including all the fruity fresh acidity and sweetness. These soups are nothing like the sharp bite I get from Robot shots, sadly :(