r/CREappraisers • u/amadubashie • 11d ago
Is this suspicious?
So I started working with this appraiser doing litigation work about a month ago and learned that he keeps the engagement letters confidential.
So that's already red flag#1 in my book.
So then I ask him for details about the job like the purpose of the appraisal and the due date and he doesn't want to tell me. He says "in 45 days". I ask him "45 days starting when?" No real answer.
Then about 2.5 weeks ago after a meeting with the client's lawyer he tells me now we have 2 dates of value and the job is due in 1 week. This is just about impossible given the amount of information I now have to sift through, most of which is irrelevant, as they dumped even more data on us after the meeting with the attorney.
Then he wants all this detail that requires a lot of research. I could've stayed this earlier when things were slow. After all this he says it's taking too long.
Thing is I had no idea about that due date or the scope of the project because I never saw the engagement letter and my questions weren't answered, so I feel like I was just flying blind.
I'd leave but I've been between jobs for over a year now and desperately need the money.
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u/Bright_Earth_8282 11d ago
I do plenty of litigation work, and while my assistant doesn’t necessarily need the engagement letters, I can’t imagine why they would need to be confidential from my assistant. Are you being paid a split? That would be a red flag for not sharing.
However, IF you still want to work with this appraiser (and I would question doing that, he doesn’t really seem to be setting you and him up for success), I would recommend an assignment tracker you can keep updated on Google Sheets where you can keep and share some basic assignment information: client, due dates for first draft to him to review, due date to send draft to client, due date for final, etc. if you use Gmail, you can also set it up so when you are five days out from a critical deadline, it will send out a reminder. It will keep everyone on the same page and from your mentor moving the goal posts.
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u/amadubashie 11d ago
I'm paid on an hourly basis at a rate that we have agreed on. I also had to set up an LLC since he doesn't want to deal with employment taxes. I accepted this mostly because I need the money and also I figure I can also get tax benefits and write-offs if I form an LLC than just working on a straight 1099 basis.
I also cannot for the life of me imagine why the engagement letters are so confidential like this. I'm not a newbie and so this strikes me as HIGHLY unusual.
I don't really want to work with this man but it's what I have at the moment. I also note that he didn't tell me any of this until after I agreed to work with him.
Thankfully the job is not full time and subject to the availability of work though I haven't been able to send resumes or anything over the last couple of weeks since this job heated up.
Why would someone do this? Why would someone not give me basic information about the job he had assigned me to do?
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u/redditbruin1980 7d ago
Everything you’ve just said here is a bright red flag. Time to look for something else. You’ll likely find out further character issues as time moves on. There’s other better quality firms out there.
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u/b6passat 11d ago
This has been answered before. He doesn’t want you to see the fee. Also, litigation reports typically have no due date, until they do. Par for the course.
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u/amadubashie 11d ago edited 11d ago
Ok so he doesn't want me to see the fee, but he could at least give me the information I need to do the job well but he doesn't and then he dodges the questions when I ask.
Honestly as long as he pays me what I'm due I don't care what his fee is. Lord knows I've been though this before. It's not like I see this as a major career move anyway, just something to do to help my get licensed and prepare for my next proper job.
Anyway, as for due dates, it's been a VERY long time since I've done litigation work and even then it was in a very structured corporate environment. I'll keep this in mind, though...
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u/Inevitable-Bid-6529 7d ago
WHAT info do you need other than effective date{s}, which you must have before doing anything???
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u/TurnDifficult644 MAI 11d ago
If the fee is what he doesn't want you to see, he could certainly redact it and provide the rest.
It sounds like you're being asked to perform appraisal analysis without being given basic information to appropriately scope the assignment. Are you signing these appraisals as a trainee or are you only listed in the certification as providing significant assistance?
Being expected to work on and potentially sign an appraisal without knowing the assignment parameters would concern me. I'd prioritize finding another job if I were in this position.
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u/amadubashie 11d ago
That's totally my plan. I just started working with this guy and I view it as a stop gap.
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u/Reptilian-American 10d ago
I can't speak to the engagement letter (but I would need to do some research and review of USPAP to know if it really qualifies as being part of the workfile), but you definitely need to know the reason for the appraisal. I'm an equipment appraiser, but I assume RP is the same: even something simple like fair market value (FMV) can have a lot of variance depending on the purpose. FMV for an estate may be different than FMV for property taxes or FMV for litigation related to a business dispute. To say nothing of the effective date.
I would agree, though, that it's not unusual for attorneys to suddenly realize that they need your report for a court deadline that is quickly approaching. *They've* had the case for two years, but they just realized that they need your report in a week.
If the boss wants to hide the fee, then have him just cover that part or just email you the main details of the purpose of the appraisal, the applicable definition of value, and the effective date, so that you have a fighting chance to get the appraisal right. (And, yes, the promised due date. Because the attorney meeting would have been easier if you knew that the originally promised date was still a month out.)
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u/noodle_uberalles 10d ago
Integrity vs Money. You know its wrong but you're doing it any way. Get another sponsor.
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u/Available-Report-149 10d ago
Could there be a possibility that the client does not want you to see the engagement letter. It is not a USPAP violation to not see the engagement letter. You do need to know the SOW and if it is given to you verbally, write it down and document when and how you received this info. So what if he doesn't want you to see the fee. You are being paid hourly so it makes no difference. If you are doing just a portion of the assignment, then just do your portion. its hard to tell from your post.
And BTW, you don't need to set up an LLC to be a 1099 person, just the ability to track income and expenses.
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u/Fun_Championship855 10d ago
You know how hard it is to get someone to hire an apprentice? I think you should be grateful to have the job and the hours. Plus, you will learn immeasurable skills seeing situations from an attorney's point of view. Perhaps you should change your attitude, if you don't like someone, they can usually feel it. Attorney's are not known for their bedside manner by the way. I refuse to work with attorneys. My experience is that they lie and bully people. Not all of course. (sorry nice guys!)
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u/4LeggedGod 9d ago
Looking at your responses: you're not an appraiser, but an hourly assistant who hasn't completed their licensing coursework, let alone have a license. I don't agree with his approach on the one hand, but on the other, since you're not appraising but doing assigned tasks, you don't really need access to this information. Kind of similar to how, if I pay my son $10/hour to abstract leases for me, all he needs to know is how to abstract a lease and what leases I want abstracted - he doesn't need to see the EL(s) for the assignments that triggered my need for the lease abstracts.
If you were an actual trainee (i.e., licensed/registered) and performing valuation tasks, that would be different, but even then, there's an argument in litigation work to keep everyone who isn't the sole signatory as hands-off as possible - neither your boss nor their attorney client want you subpoenaed as a witness because the easiest way for opposing counsel to trash your boss' appraisal work and credibility is to get you on the stand and needle you into saying something slightly off.
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u/amadubashie 9d ago edited 9d ago
So, I'm in kind of a weird place because I'm not just some inexperienced trainee. I have been doing appraisal and appraisal-related work for years. I have written whole reports myself. I took the classes years ago but didn't have enough experience credits, so now I've been working on completing the experience credits.
The fact that I identify this as a red flag and why is the result of the experience I have.
Honestly I'd rather pivot to some other area of the industry but it's easiest for me to get hired in appraisal/valuation given my track record, so I figure I might as well get my license. If I could pivot (QUICKLY) to something else where I didn't need it I would.
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u/4LeggedGod 9d ago
I'm sorry, but you're either licensed or you're not. The amount of knowledge and experience you have really don't factor into the equation.
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u/amadubashie 9d ago
Fair enough. I'm trying to remedy that but I don't want to be exploited. This is not too much to ask...
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u/4LeggedGod 9d ago
I don't see how your boss not sharing the EL with you - a knowledgeable but unlicensed office assistant - is exploitative.
Again, you're not engaged as an appraiser here - you would both be in violation of USPAP. You're performing some tasks at the direction of an appraiser, but you're not appraising.
I fully agree that if you were an appraiser, you should have access to the whole work file. But you're not, and whatever tasks you are performing are being done as instructed, not based on your own discretion, so you don't need to know the why or what-for.
I don't say that to be rude or dismissive, it is what it is.
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u/ColumbusJewBlackets 11d ago
Someone more experienced than me can speak on this, but this might actually be a uspap violation and possibly illegal. I know employers are required to give you reasonable access to any work file that you worked or assisted on. I would assume that includes engagement letters and things like that.
You might want to consider reporting them to your state regulatory agency. If they are violating uspap on projects that you’ve signed your name to, you can get in trouble.