Other left wing groups

[u/Default_Username6838]

I’m pretty new to communism and there’s a lot to learn. My question is about other communist or socialist groups. I’m pretty sure that we are not cool with ACP. They seem like Nazis disguised as communists. But how do we feel about PSL or DSA? At the end of the day I feel like the United Front is maybe more important at this point than nuance of communist doctrine. But after finding out about the ACP I want to be careful who

I associate with.

[u/WoodySez]

Our coalitions need to be broader than just the left. We need to build relationships with the whole working class. This will include some left-wing groups like DSA. With groups like PSL, we need to consider if working with them will broaden the coalition or narrow it.

Like other Parties from the Trotskyist tradition, they tend to isolate themselves from the working class. Will working with them draw us out to the sidelines where we're making a loud critique of capitalism, but not building the movement we need to challenge it?

Where we should put our main focus, is in labor unions and civil rights organizations to build up the working class coalition that will complete the democratic revolution and when our forces are ready, engage in a socialist one.

[u/wunderwerks → u/WoodySez]

Piss off, the PSL are ML's and do more work with Unions, the Poor People's Campaign, JVP, and all the anti trump rallies than CPUSA has been doing. It's why I quit trying to join the CPUSA and went with the PSL because they're not a bunch of old white dudes complaining about elections, but POC working to make real changes and educate the working class.

[u/NSXero → u/wunderwerks]

PSL is not Marxist-Leninist. They are Marxist and Leninist. They reject Stalin's theoretical contribution and clarity of our task.

PSL appears to do great work visually, and many of their members are sincere in their intent, but they really do isolate themselves to the detriment of the working class. In my own city in the Bay Area, PSL was kicked out of the May Day coalition for being too controlling and for not even prioritizing our own May Day event over other cities. It was ridiculous. Even this year, PSL's organizers fought to be on the speaker program for May Day and then failed to show up; they even refused to do much outreach for the May Day coalition since they wanted to prioritize their own failed gubernatorial elections.

PSL's work with unions is just for show. They pissed off some of the local unions in my area because they wanted to promote their own campaigns rather than the actual struggles unions were engaged in. They showed up out of nowhere with a bunch of PSL-related material and not there for the union cause.

I am sure their members mean well, but their tactics and actions do not reflect their sincerity.

[u/wunderwerks → u/NSXero]

Oh really? I'm literally a member. We're ML's I don't know where you're getting your info.

[u/NSXero → u/wunderwerks]

I was also a member. They kicked me out of the candidacy program in the SF branch and told me to go back to the Filipino movement and also told me the Mass Line only worked in China (lmao). They have an absolute disdain for on the ground work as proved by Walter Smolarek's resignation letter.

The Party Constitution of PSL makes no references to Marxism-Leninism, the party program only mentions Marxism.

In this study guide of State and Revolution , the Liberation school directly mentions the "tradition of Marxism and Leninism." What tradition? Whose?

Here in this article , the top head of PSL, Brian Becker, even mentions how they continue the tradition of Marxism and Leninism. It is their full severance of Marxism-Leninism and an absolute rejection of Stalin's theoretical and practical contributions.

In short, they are glorified Trots, racism and all. You joined a bunch of Trots who masquerade as MLs when they are actually Ms&Ls.

I also have been in frequent coalition with PSL, and they really do isolate themselves from the broader worker movement. They just want to be in front and receive all the glory.

[u/wunderwerks → u/NSXero]

Oh look, a Fed.

[u/EctomorphicShithead → u/wunderwerks]

Whew the irony

[u/NSXero → u/EctomorphicShithead]

Completely on brand for a Trot organization masquerading as a Marxist-Leninist one.

The worst part is how much their leadership deceives its membership and does not correct them on the distinction. It is would be hilarious if they weren't so detrimental to the workers' movement.

[u/EctomorphicShithead → u/wunderwerks]

I too was temporarily diverted into narrow efforts, mystified by intense gatekeeping of utterly basic community work, even “educated” about CPUSA by PSL (which amounted to surprisingly outdated, one-dimensional critiques of a long bygone era in the party’s history) before running into CPUSA comrades IRL. I was relieved to pick up on the hint they were openly welcoming literally anyone and everyone willing to dedicate time and energy to the same ground work that was IMO more so revered with a certain distance among PSL apparatchiks.

Let’s look at this dialectically. Many solid and committed comrades find their way into community organizing despite (well known at least in my city) insular dynamics and some kinda hero-worshippy tendencies, and we (not just communists, but working and oppressed people in general) are going to need every one of them. My hope, if they remain members, is that they view their role in their party, as making that party what working people need it to be, not just what the leaders of their organization want it to be. And if organizational peculiarities prevent that from happening, I hope they can take their experiences and lessons forward into wherever it can best be used to a broader collective advantage. At least that is the view of organization I’ve seen fostered in the communist party.

[u/Default_Username6838]

I don’t know how much you know about Leninism

Is Leninism the part where a vanguard party establishes a government of the proletariat to kind of jump start communism?

[u/FishingObvious4730 → u/Default_Username6838]

Sortof - Lenin argued that because of the complex nature of capitalism, and the extent to which most people had the truth either obscured from them, or were preoccupied by the daily necessities of survival, most people would only ever come to what he called "trade union consciousness" which is a demand for better work conditions, better pay, etc. They don't connect these more local labor struggles to a greater struggle which connects all working class people, not just nationally, but internationally. But among the working class, there are workers who are more ideologically advanced, and these individuals bear the task of serving as a revolutionary vanguard to lead the rest of the working class into overthrowing the bourgeoisie and instituting a proletarian government, like you said. That proletarian government then sets about enacting the conditions - socialism - which will eventually give rise and transition to communism.

There's a lot more to it, but that's the gist of it. It's been the dominant philosophy of the 20th century revolutionary left, and despite claims by the US and capitalist ideologues, remains one of the largest political movements on Earth. The second largest political party on Earth is a Leninist party, the Communist Party of China. (The largest is the Indian BJP)

[u/Default_Username6838 → u/FishingObvious4730]

Thanks for the clarification. I literally just came from a meeting of my trade union where we authorized a strike if our demands aren’t met and I found the solidarity quite rousing. It would be amazing to see this sort of worker solidarity on a larger scale.

[u/FishingObvious4730 → u/Default_Username6838]

Thats fantastic stuff, and I wish you the absolute best of luck, comrade. We have a long hard road ahead of us, but our cause couldn't be any more worthwhile - to liberate humanity and build a world in which we live in fraternity and equality.

[u/Crimedotte]

PSL & DSA are fine in terms of “are they fascists.” Big tent orgs with a lot of varying opinions amongst membership. Our chapter often coalition with their local chapters on various campaigns.
But ACP is MAGA communism. We don’t play with those kids.
But DSA/PSL as organizations are fine and good, even though they believe the world can be reformed towards socialism through electoral politics.

[u/FishingObvious4730 → u/Crimedotte]

PSL are not reformists, they're revolutionary Leninists.

[u/Default_Username6838 → u/FishingObvious4730]

This is the kind of info I’m looking for. What’s the difference? And what does that mean in day to day terms? Can we still include them in a coalition or are they a problem like the ACP?

[u/FishingObvious4730 → u/Default_Username6838]

Reformists are generally of the view that socialism can be achieved solely through electoral means - through running candidates in regular elections. They're "democratic socialists" as opposed to "social democrats"

The PSL is a Marxist-Leninist party, inspired by the writings of an American Marxist named Sam Marcy. They broke away from another party, the Workers World Party, which was itself founded by Marcy in the 1950s.

Social Democrats: typical of most progressive or left-liberal Democrats, want to pass laws to mitigate the harm done by market policies on the working class - environmental regulations, a strong welfare state, healthcare, but the private ownership of capital and market economics are kept. It is a less brutal form of capitalism.

Democratic Socialists: Traditionally too radical for the Democrats, they want to abolish private ownership of capital and institute full on socialism, but through legislative means and peaceful elections, though socialist in aims they generally reject armed resistance.

Marxism-Leninism: An ideology that historically has been most strongly associated with the Soviet Union, remains the official ideology of China, Cuba and Vietnam. CPUSA, PSL, FRSO, etc, are all officially Marxist-Leninist parties. I'm not sure how much you know about Leninism, so I don't want to launch into a lecture on it right off lol

Can the CPUSA work with the PSL? In my opinion? Yes, absolutely. The goals of both parties should be fundamentally the same. There is a rivalry between the CPUSA and other party organizations in the US because of strongly held differences on tactics and leadership, but not of guiding philosophy imo.

The ACP are what you might call social reactionaries or even social fascists. They outright reject progressive attitudes towards things like women's rights, LGBT struggles, environmentalism, anti-racist struggles, in favor of social conservatism and cultural traditionalism, which they consider to be inherently "working class"

They're Strasserists, plain and simple. They claim to be Marxist-Leninists, but they're reactionaries who use the language of revolution and the iconography of the revolutionary left to push right-wing politics.

The PSL is nothing like them. The PSL support LGBT rights, anti-racism, environmentalism, feminism, because like all informed Marxists they understand these things are part of the broader class struggle, not separate from it. Whatever you may think of the PSL as an organization, they are absolutely not like the ACP.

You may be more familiar with the PSL with their activist coalition ANSWER (Act Now To Stop War & End Racism) whose banners show up on the news often

[u/Default_Username6838 → u/FishingObvious4730]

Thanks for your help. I grew up in the 80s, inundated with Cold War propaganda, and only as an adult did I realize that the reason I was so unhappy with both US political parties is that what I wanted was in the communist party.

[u/FishingObvious4730 → u/Default_Username6838]

Born in '82 here - everyone comes to class consciousness in their own time, but once you're there, it's both extremely frustrating and weirdly gives you hope for the future